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Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy


samurai_sarah

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I think they could be criticized if they lived in an old RV and still bought expensive decor. Or if they had children that looked underfed but still spend money on unnecessary things (looking at you Jill).

But they apparently have the money. Even though it comes from the family business, that does mean it is a more longterm 'income' than short-term fame like influencing. If they have it, why not spend it? It does not look like they are making irresponsible choices.

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As long as the bills are paid and everyone is well fed then does it really matter what extras they buy? I can see that chandelier lasting well through Hailey's childhood so may as well buy something like that in good quality. I'm sure we have all purchased something expensive and (kind of) unnecessary at some point in our lives. I'll give them a pass with this one, especially considering the childhood Katie had. 

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It’s interesting to me that they don’t seem to have financial compulsions at all in their corner of fundamentalism. I don’t really see it with the Bates/Duggars either . Sure they used to “buy used to save the difference” but that seemed more about making investments and having so many kids in a tight income then other corners of fundamentalism that guilt ppl for having too much material possessions. I know places that would judge them for spending that much on a worldly lamp. 
 

Which makes me wonder if Gothard taught that at all? 

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I think everyone, to some degree, prioritizes what they spend their money on. My husband and I sometimes joke that some people in our town have vehicles that are worth more than their house. Would I spend $100k+ on a vehicle? No. Does that mean it’s wrong to do so? Also no. For me, I’m okay with spending more on something that is going to last us a long time, or things like healthier foods that are more expensive than other alternatives (and we are fortunate to be able to afford this). For Katie and Travis, spending $350 on a light fixture doesn’t surprise me because they seem to enjoy having a home that’s aesthetically pleasing. I can’t criticize that. 

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14 hours ago, Keys said:

I think everyone, to some degree, prioritizes what they spend their money on. My husband and I sometimes joke that some people in our town have vehicles that are worth more than their house. Would I spend $100k+ on a vehicle? No. Does that mean it’s wrong to do so? Also no. For me, I’m okay with spending more on something that is going to last us a long time, or things like healthier foods that are more expensive than other alternatives (and we are fortunate to be able to afford this). For Katie and Travis, spending $350 on a light fixture doesn’t surprise me because they seem to enjoy having a home that’s aesthetically pleasing. I can’t criticize that. 

So true. My dad tried to shame me for spending $250 at a vet for a kitten I rescued. Meanwhile, he’ll spend that easily going out to dinner with his girlfriend in NYC on any ordinary Tuesday. 

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On 1/7/2023 at 1:20 AM, Keys said:

My husband and I sometimes joke that some people in our town have vehicles that are worth more than their house.

My mom and I were visiting her mom in rural Arkansas. While driving past mobile homes with nice new vehicles parked in front, Mom said “I wonder if some people here spend more on their cars than their houses,” in a tone of some shock. Grandma said, “Oh, sure,” in a tone of “Well, duh.” It’s definitely a thing in places like where the Duggars live, though less so since the jump in housing prices that fueled Jim Bob’s empire. 

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34 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

My mom and I were visiting her mom in rural Arkansas. While driving past mobile homes with nice new vehicles parked in front, Mom said “I wonder if some people here spend more on their cars than their houses,” in a tone of some shock. Grandma said, “Oh, sure,” in a tone of “Well, duh.” It’s definitely a thing in places like where the Duggars live, though less so since the jump in housing prices that fueled Jim Bob’s empire. 

I love all the judgments when people see people they don't should think have nice things have something nice--and not picking on you, it's more a comment on the whole discussion. I live in a double wide (senior "mobile home manor) and a lot of people have nice cars, but what they didn't have was enough cash to put a down payment on a condo (btw, you might be surprised at how expensive it is to live in a mobile park--way more than the fees for condos around here, much less a house.) I work at a food pantry and some people comment on how someone will come in who is driving a nice car--well, what are you supposed to do when you lose your job or your partner dies or you get socked with a $300,000 medical bill--get rid of the car too? She gets her nails done and I do my own--well, maybe she works in retail where she has to look a certain way to keep her job. My income flucuates, sometimes up (not at all way up) and sometimes really down, and a priority for me is to get a massage because it helps me manage the stress that can fuck up the rest of my life, and I can experience being touched by someone in a nonharmful way.
Does that look like a ridiculous indulgence to other people? Probably. Do I need to justify myself to them?

No

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1 hour ago, patsymae said:

I love all the judgments when people see people they don't should think have nice things have something nice--and not picking on you, it's more a comment on the whole discussion. I live in a double wide (senior "mobile home manor) and a lot of people have nice cars, but what they didn't have was enough cash to put a down payment on a condo (btw, you might be surprised at how expensive it is to live in a mobile park--way more than the fees for condos around here, much less a house.) I work at a food pantry and some people comment on how someone will come in who is driving a nice car--well, what are you supposed to do when you lose your job or your partner dies or you get socked with a $300,000 medical bill--get rid of the car too? She gets her nails done and I do my own--well, maybe she works in retail where she has to look a certain way to keep her job. My income flucuates, sometimes up (not at all way up) and sometimes really down, and a priority for me is to get a massage because it helps me manage the stress that can fuck up the rest of my life, and I can experience being touched by someone in a nonharmful way.
Does that look like a ridiculous indulgence to other people? Probably. Do I need to justify myself to them?

No

After spending over three decades in the auto insurance industry, with several years specifically dedicated to handling auto total losses, I have to comment about judging people based on what they drive.  Some people have very nice cars that are 10 plus years old; they bought the car new and always kept it up, so if the car looks really good the average Joe would have no idea how old it really is.  Plus, if the car is older it's most likely paid in full; so yeah, are they seriously supposed to get rid of a nice paid vehicle they have had for years and take excellent care of to buy a clunker because they have fallen on hard times?  That makes no sense! Additionally, that car may be the most expensive thing they own, and you better believe it's fully insured too.   That way if the car gets into a total loss, the person can at least collect on collision-and yes, we do take vehicle condition into account when calculating the total loss settlement.  

Additionally, if the individual has a decent work commute or is responsible for transporting family members, having a "nice car" in excellent mechanical condition is crucial and provides peace of mind.   

And has anyone taken a look at the prices of used cars lately?  They are in the stratosphere.  In some cases, it's more cost-effective to buy new, especially when zero percent finance and long-term loans to spread out payments come into play.  

And from a personal standpoint, my sister's first husband walked out on her in 2010, leaving her with two kids and a 1997 Volvo wagon in dubious mechanical condition with over 200K miles on it.  My mom was a wreck about my sister driving that car to work, to take the kids to school, etc.  so my dad helped her out with buying a new 2011 Kia Soul.  She put some money down, he put some money down, and she managed the rest on a very reasonable loan payment and eventually paid my dad back for what he loaned her.  I am sure some people wondered how someone in her position was able to afford a brand-new car.  

I guess what I am trying to say is there are so many reasons why someone on hard times may have what others consider a "nice car".  And like Felix Unger said in "The Odd Couple":  "When you assume, you make an "Ass" out of "u" and "me".       

  

Edited by HeartsAFundie
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When we were seriously down, there was immense pressure for me to sell my Mustang. All the bullshit about being homeless and having 2 vehicles, having a "nice" vehicle. Listen, no situation is permanent. Having 2 cars is no longer a luxury, and having a nice one is no slam on anyone. I have a nice vehicle now, and have hung on to it by the skin of my teeth through thick and thin. I've skimped elsewhere to keep the payments up. 

Thank God I do have a certain amount of guaranteed income every month. Not everyone is that fortunate. Its a privilege that I am enormously thankful for and realize that I'm in a minority that, if I moved to a lower COL area, I could live on that. 

 

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On 11/27/2022 at 4:55 AM, Keys said:

I’m in Canada, and the concept of wearing shoes indoors (especially shoes you wear outdoors), is so strange to me. I’ve never encountered anyone here who does that!

(Not saying it’s bad, just that it’s something I’ve always found intriguing when watching American TV)

Watching TV programmes where folk wear their outdoor shoes inside then proceed to put their feet up on the settee/furniture is gross. I end up yelling take your shoes off at the TV. I probably sound like a mad woman! But it really is gross. 

6 hours ago, patsymae said:

I love all the judgments when people see people they don't should think have nice things have something nice--and not picking on you, it's more a comment on the whole discussion. I live in a double wide (senior "mobile home manor) and a lot of people have nice cars, but what they didn't have was enough cash to put a down payment on a condo (btw, you might be surprised at how expensive it is to live in a mobile park--way more than the fees for condos around here, much less a house.) I work at a food pantry and some people comment on how someone will come in who is driving a nice car--well, what are you supposed to do when you lose your job or your partner dies or you get socked with a $300,000 medical bill--get rid of the car too? She gets her nails done and I do my own--well, maybe she works in retail where she has to look a certain way to keep her job. My income flucuates, sometimes up (not at all way up) and sometimes really down, and a priority for me is to get a massage because it helps me manage the stress that can fuck up the rest of my life, and I can experience being touched by someone in a nonharmful way.
Does that look like a ridiculous indulgence to other people? Probably. Do I need to justify myself to them?

No

Senior mobile home manor!!! I love that term. My late parents lived in a fixed van on a trailer park in Yorkshire. Mostly seniors on a beautifully kept site with a hospital over the road. Perfect!!  I wish I had known this then. They would have loved that description. 

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Snap judgements on what people wear, drive, buy, etc always grate my nerve...because I was always taught it's rude to spend other people's money or speculate how they should be spending it. 

I like a nice car in that I don't want to drive a full on beater, but also cars just aren't my thing. I'm not one of those people who likes to trade their cars in every couple of years and I really see them as getting you from point A to point B. No hate to those people, some people just really love getting new cars. I've had this long standing habit of buying a car brand new, driving it 10 years, then getting another brand new car. It just so happened my "10 year car buying anniversary" was coming up right around the time I was due with baby #2 and ready for something a bit bigger. My husband ended up ordering me a '21 Yukon Denali, the new body style, before it was really out places so it wasn't on the road hardly at all in my area. It's a stupid expensive car, and we had no intentions of getting the Denali trim but it was all our friend who is a dealer could get at the time. The sheer number of comments made about my new car (simply because it said "Denali" on the side) from people who have never even stopped consider that I drive every car I've owned for at least 10 years! I've never been one to care about other people's opinions but some of the comments made me very self conscious when in reality I had zero to feel bad about it. 

 

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In my field - and I'm sure many others - people feel free to comment on client cars.  I'm a veterinarian so often dealing with the finances of life and death situations which are unexpected/emergent.  The costs of vet care, just like everything else, have gone up up up as our supplies have become more expensive.  Since most people don't have insurance on their pets, there are people who can't afford to treat and sometimes those people are driving nice cars or have their hair and nails done, etc.  People who have spent money on Christmas presents or have booked a vacation, whatever.  Okay, so they bought a new car 6 months ago.  They can't just go get that money back today to pay for the medical costs.  You never know what's going on in someone's life.  I try to gently correct my staff when they make comments because I know I would struggle to pay for care in some of these situations and I have never purchased a fancy home or new car.

But here's my plug for getting insurance for your pet.  It is such a relief when I diagnose a pet with something expensive and the client says, "oh, that's okay, I have insurance."  Hallelujah!

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On 1/8/2023 at 10:29 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

My mom and I were visiting her mom in rural Arkansas. While driving past mobile homes with nice new vehicles parked in front, Mom said “I wonder if some people here spend more on their cars than their houses,” in a tone of some shock. Grandma said, “Oh, sure,” in a tone of “Well, duh.” It’s definitely a thing in places like where the Duggars live, though less so since the jump in housing prices that fueled Jim Bob’s empire. 

Quoting myself to clarify. This wasn’t a comment on any individual(s), and didn’t refer to trailer parks. Also, it was sometime in the 1980s or 1990s. People in rural Arkansas would buy or rent land and put a mobile home on it instead of building a house. The result was often that they had spent more on their new cars. It’s unusual, but happens in some places.

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Katie and Travis went to see a show in New York with Hugh Jackman, and Travis got a selfie with him. I found it interesting that Hugh Jackman has spoken about evangelicalism before, calling it “too restrictive”. Anyways, they seem to be having a good time in New York. 

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1 minute ago, Keys said:

Katie and Travis went to see a show in New York with Hugh Jackman, and Travis got a selfie with him. I found it interesting that Hugh Jackman has spoken about evangelicalism before, calling it “too restrictive”. Anyways, they seem to be having a good time in New York. 

Isn't this like their 12th babymoon? 🙄

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8 hours ago, Keys said:

Katie and Travis went to see a show in New York with Hugh Jackman, and Travis got a selfie with him. I found it interesting that Hugh Jackman has spoken about evangelicalism before, calling it “too restrictive”. Anyways, they seem to be having a good time in New York. 

The Music Man-- I SO badly wanted to go when I was in NY recently but tickets were like $700/piece and that was a no-go for me.

(I'm not saying they paid $700, for what it's worth).

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4 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

The Music Man-- I SO badly wanted to go when I was in NY recently but tickets were like $700/piece and that was a no-go for me.

(I'm not saying they paid $700, for what it's worth).

I went to NYC the end August to see Hugh in The Music Man and managed to get tickets only five rows from the stage for under $300. It was so worth it. He was incredible and so kind and gracious at the stage door. I’m glad Katie and Travis got this experience and she gets to go see Broadway shows. That show was amazing.

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16 hours ago, Keys said:

Katie and Travis went to see a show in New York with Hugh Jackman, and Travis got a selfie with him. I found it interesting that Hugh Jackman has spoken about evangelicalism before, calling it “too restrictive”. Anyways, they seem to be having a good time in New York. 

I screen shot that and sent it to a non fj friend who knows I follow fundies 

with the message 

Fucking fundies getting to pose with our Hugh, they can fuck right off...

PS I love Hugh and worship his wife, who is one of the most articulate and open minded people ever, I have seen his show every time it tours and saw baby Hugh before he hit it big, playing Gaston in Beauty and the Beast in 1996.

TLDR fuck off from Hugh, fundie dicks 

3 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I went to NYC the end August to see Hugh in The Music Man and managed to get tickets only five rows from the stage for under $300. It was so worth it. He was incredible and so kind and gracious at the stage door. I’m glad Katie and Travis got this experience and she gets to go see Broadway shows. That show was amazing.

I couldn't believe they were seeing it, How much on current pop culture has Katie caught up on to be able to appreciate that show. She most probably not heard or seen any of the movies and songs he is talking about. How many of the references would she have gotten...

Oh and to reiterate my opinion fuck off from hugh fundies lol  

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2 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I screen shot that and sent it to a non fj friend who knows I follow fundies 

with the message 

Fucking fundies getting to pose with our Hugh, they can fuck right off...

PS I love Hugh and worship his wife, who is one of the most articulate and open minded people ever, I have seen his show every time it tours and saw baby Hugh before he hit it big, playing Gaston in Beauty and the Beast in 1996.

TLDR fuck off from Hugh, fundie dicks 

I couldn't believe they were seeing it, How much on current pop culture has Katie caught up on to be able to appreciate that show. She most probably not heard or seen any of the movies and songs he is talking about. How many of the references would she have gotten...

Oh and to reiterate my opinion fuck off from hugh fundies lol  

Ummm….I’m not sure what show you’re thinking of but “The Music Man” is a classic Broadway musical written in the 1960s about a small town in Iowa in the 1910s. It’s not as well-known as “The Sound of Music” but still classic Broadway. Hugh has a very charming anecdote that he shares about being in the ensemble of the show in high school. Most of the ATI kids I knew growing up were familiar with “The Music Man”. I’m not at all surprised that Travis loves the show.

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19 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

Ummm….I’m not sure what show you’re thinking of but “The Music Man” is a classic Broadway musical written in the 1960s about a small town in Iowa in the 1910s. It’s not as well-known as “The Sound of Music” but still classic Broadway. Hugh has a very charming anecdote that he shares about being in the ensemble of the show in high school. Most of the ATI kids I knew growing up were familiar with “The Music Man”. I’m not at all surprised that Travis loves the show.

All true except the Broadway show was introduced in 1957. It's utterly wholesome, and I wonder where the confusion lies.

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11 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

All true except the Broadway show was introduced in 1957. It's utterly wholesome, and I wonder where the confusion lies.

Thanks! I knew it was somewhere in that era!

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37 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

All true except the Broadway show was introduced in 1957. It's utterly wholesome, and I wonder where the confusion lies.

oh sorry I thought it was his one man show he does, my bad 

It had man in the title too

Thats what I get for making assumptions 

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4 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

oh sorry I thought it was his one man show he does, my bad 

It had man in the title too

Thats what I get for making assumptions 

"The Man. The Music. The Show."

Honestly the titles are similar enough that confusion is understandable. But yeah, he is doing a Broadway run of The Music Man which finishes up this week and that is what Katie and Travis saw. 

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Travis was performing at a youth conference today somewhere north of Dallas. I’d like to see Travis and Katie with the Wallers tomorrow at their church.

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