Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy

[Tdoc72]

5 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Someone on Reddit found Carla Clark's testimony from a few years ago and it has a lot of disturbing info. Her home life was a mess, parents divorced and her dad wasn't around, her mom was an addict and at one point she was living with her grandparents. By 15 she wasn't living with them either and was living with a family from the Clark's church. She was already dating her husband by then, they started dating when she was 14.5 (the stress the half as if that makes it better) and he was 18. They got married when she was 18. I just felt sad, like she obviously latched onto a place to belong and she was so young. 

Is Carla Travis’ mom?

[CanadianMamam]

6 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

Is Carla Travis’ mom?

Yes, Mama Clark as Katie calls her. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Oh good, so the creepy father can add grooming onto his list of creepiness.

[CanadianMamam]

Katie went to Pottery Barn today for some nursery items and I can't help but think how different it is from her own childhood. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Katie went to Pottery Barn today for some nursery items and I can't help but think how different it is from her own childhood. 

But not very different from Travis’s. Sad that they can’t seem to make their own path. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But not very different from Travis’s. Sad that they can’t seem to make their own path. 

TBF it takes a while for almost everyone to figure out which ways you're the same as your parents vs. different, and guys aren't really conditioned/don't tend to feel the need to rebel against their moms as much, which is what you'd see in this.

I'll be curious to see if Travis does the bullying that we see his dad do -I'm hoping we don't, and that's much more rebellious in his case than a wife that rebels against her own mom by shopping at Pottery Barn.

[CanadianMamam]

I think marriage and pregnancy have really opens Katie's eyes to parts of her childhood that were lacking, but I don't think Travis has had a similar moment. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

6 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I think marriage and pregnancy have really opens Katie's eyes to parts of her childhood that were lacking, but I don't think Travis has had a similar moment. 

I don't even know which brothers-in-law to hope he spends time with in hopes they influence him?

Zach and Evan, maybe? Those two seem on the softer/warmer side, while still being fairly outgoing.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Travis does have only one male cousin on the Clark side and he doesn’t seem like he’s following the family path. His mom is the divorced one so it makes sense he would question things. They haven’t shunned him. So maybe Travis will be able to understand why he isn’t following the family path of a no touch courtship, early marriage, working in the family business, and having exactly 3 kids. 

[Tangy Bee]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Travis does have only one male cousin on the Clark side and he doesn’t seem like he’s following the family path. His mom is the divorced one so it makes sense he would question things. They haven’t shunned him. So maybe Travis will be able to understand why he isn’t following the family path of a no touch courtship, early marriage, working in the family business, and having exactly 3 kids. 

Is that the cousin that's built like a body builder with tattoos? If so, he married a local fundie in my area of NC. She's a beautician I think. There are pictures on instagram of Clarks at their wedding. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Is that the cousin that's built like a body builder with tattoos? If so, he married a local fundie in my area of NC. She's a beautician I think. There are pictures on instagram of Clarks at their wedding. 

When did they get married? Last time I was snooping around the Clark family he wasn’t married. Does his last name start with a W?

[Tangy Bee]

@JermajestyDuggarI guess I have the wrong relative. They have been married a while now. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

@JermajestyDuggarI guess I have the wrong relative. They have been married a while now. 

Yeah, I just checked Jeffrey’s Instagram and it still looks like he’s single. He and his mom (sister to Mike Clark) are both realtors. He does body build. But I see no sign of being married. 

[CanadianMamam]

52 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yeah, I just checked Jeffrey’s Instagram and it still looks like he’s single. He and his mom (sister to Mike Clark) are both realtors. He does body build. But I see no sign of being married. 

There are two Jeffreys in the family, because Travis's cousin Vanessa is also married to a Jeffery W. 

[Alysabeth]

On 12/10/2022 at 8:28 PM, CanadianMamam said:

Someone on Reddit found Carla Clark's testimony from a few years ago and it has a lot of disturbing info. Her home life was a mess, parents divorced and her dad wasn't around, her mom was an addict and at one point she was living with her grandparents. By 15 she wasn't living with them either and was living with a family from the Clark's church. She was already dating her husband by then, they started dating when she was 14.5 (the stress the half as if that makes it better) and he was 18. They got married when she was 18. I just felt sad, like she obviously latched onto a place to belong and she was so young. 

Is Carla Travis’ mum? That’s really sad. I know we don’t know the full details of Whitney’s childhood but it sounds somewhat similar, latching onto a ‘happy’ family for a sense of belonging at a young age.

[CanadianMamam]

17 minutes ago, Alysabeth said:

Is Carla Travis’ mum? That’s really sad. I know we don’t know the full details of Whitney’s childhood but it sounds somewhat similar, latching onto a ‘happy’ family for a sense of belonging at a young age.

Yes, it is Travis's mom and it made me so sad. She latched onto the family and community. It has such an icky feeling too because not only was he older, his family's church was her safe space, so he has a ridiculous amount of power over her. 

 

6 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

I don't even know which brothers-in-law to hope he spends time with in hopes they influence him?

Zach and Evan, maybe? Those two seem on the softer/warmer side, while still being fairly outgoing.

Travis and Evan seem close, so maybe that will help Travis when it comes to parenting. 

I think the big problem is that the flaws in Katie's upbringing are more obvious. It is easier for her to see that her parents didn't have enough money or time for her and to realize she wants different for her children (and that having less children is the way to do that).

It is harder to see coldness/borderline abuse, especially when Travis's family did give him a lot of time and monetary things. It takes a lot of deep diving and self-awareness to see the trauma of that kind of upbringing (I know my dad never did). 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

There are two Jeffreys in the family, because Travis's cousin Vanessa is also married to a Jeffery W. 

Yes, but this is Travis’s biological cousin I’m talking about. He doesn’t seem to be following the Clark family expectations. 

[CanadianMamam]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes, but this is Travis’s biological cousin I’m talking about. He doesn’t seem to be following the Clark family expectations. 

Oh I know, I was just commenting on how confusing the names are..but yes, he does seem to be the rebel, but still welcomed into the family. I guess that is a point for the Clarks?

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

Oh I know, I was just commenting on how confusing the names are..but yes, he does seem to be the rebel, but still welcomed into the family. I guess that is a point for the Clarks?

He’s also male. I have a feeling that’s part of it too. 
 

ETA: no matter your flavor of fundie, men get away with way more than women. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[CanadianMamam]

18 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

He’s also male. I have a feeling that’s part of it too. 
 

ETA: no matter your flavor of fundie, men get away with way more than women. 

Very true . Although Esther Bates has both a brother and a sister who have children out of wedlock and both seem equally welcome in the family. But the Keyes are fascinating as they are all over the place, the parents are definitely quiverful (there is a truly awful article by the mom that someone posted on Reddit) and the kids are all over the place. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, CanadianMamam said:

Very true . Although Esther Bates has both a brother and a sister who have children out of wedlock and both seem equally welcome in the family. But the Keyes are fascinating as they are all over the place, the parents are definitely quiverful (there is a truly awful article by the mom that someone posted on Reddit) and the kids are all over the place. 

This is how most very large fundie families end up. I personally think the Keyes family is the norm when it comes to fundie quiverful families with children in the double digits. It’s impossible to make them all follow your rules perfectly into adulthood. 

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Very true . Although Esther Bates has both a brother and a sister who have children out of wedlock and both seem equally welcome in the family. But the Keyes are fascinating as they are all over the place, the parents are definitely quiverful (there is a truly awful article by the mom that someone posted on Reddit) and the kids are all over the place. 

could you please summarise if you have read it 

Cheers

[CanadianMamam]

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

could you please summarise if you have read it 

Cheers

It was awful. She talked about how they chose to leave their family up to God, had 5 kids in 7 years. Then, she got pregnant again, while they had moved away for her husband's job and she was living in a new place where she didn't know anyone. She miscarried and didn't stop bleeding, she was in pain, etc. She refused a D&C, she was at her lowest point and begged God for answers. Bleeding stopped, she found out she was pregnant, learned at the ultrasound that shr was further along than she thought and the pregnancy dated to her plea to God. 

So basically she didn't get desperately needed medical care and was still joyfully available despite pain and bleeding. I felt so much rage reading it. 

[AussieKrissy]

7 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

It was awful. She talked about how they chose to leave their family up to God, had 5 kids in 7 years. Then, she got pregnant again, while they had moved away for her husband's job and she was living in a new place where she didn't know anyone. She miscarried and didn't stop bleeding, she was in pain, etc. She refused a D&C, she was at her lowest point and begged God for answers. Bleeding stopped, she found out she was pregnant, learned at the ultrasound that shr was further along than she thought and the pregnancy dated to her plea to God. 

So basically she didn't get desperately needed medical care and was still joyfully available despite pain and bleeding. I felt so much rage reading it. 

fuck me dead 

horror 

so if I get it correct she conceived while still bleeding for the first baby?

Fucking anti abortion shit I am assuming that is why she refused the D and C.

Take the health care, there are millions of women out there dying 'cause they have no access to it.

You 'aint that fucking special to die a martyr 

And GOD Sighed...

Fuckers 

That is all

[EmiSue]

9 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

fuck me dead 

horror 

so if I get it correct she conceived while still bleeding for the first baby?

Fucking anti abortion shit I am assuming that is why she refused the D and C.

Take the health care, there are millions of women out there dying 'cause they have no access to it.

You 'aint that fucking special to die a martyr 

And GOD Sighed...

Fuckers 

That is all

And you know that, because they're fundies, they offer this as a prescription for how everyone should be. She's lucky she lived to tell this sordid tale.