(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 51: An Unappealing Appeal

[onekidanddone]

20 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Posted on r/duggarsnark

 

I don’t think there is any way Josh has that kind of money. JB is supplying the cash and using Josh to deliver it 

[Cam]

For me, it’s about the juxtaposition of Michelle signing her name with a heart on a letter vouching for her son convicted of possessing and receiving child sex abuse material. These are two strongly opposed visuals. It’s rather sickening.

I imagine any child who was a victim of such a crime does not go around signing their name with a heart. Their innocence was stolen from them. Michelle’s cutesy heart comes across as a lack of taking the crime of child sex abuse seriously. A mentality very removed from the reality of the what happened. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Cam

[Bad Wolf]

"Kind and compassionate"? No, Duggars, kind and compassionate people do not get their jollies watching toddlers being tortured.

[Queeen Victoria]

I just wi(heart)sh that i(heart)nserti(heart)ng a heart symbol would be a uni(heart)versal s(ign) of an i(heart)mpressi(heart)ve upbri(heart)ngi(heart)ng and class.

However, the use of i(heart)t does i(mpede) the swi(heart)ftness of typi(heart)ng.  Thi(heart)s was learned from typi(heart)ng thi(heart)s post. 

(Please forgi(heart)ve any typos. It was a beast to type. 

[Hazelbunny]

I hope they do think of his family when they decide on the length of his sentence and keep him in until his youngest is at least 10. 

[G33kywife]

I am guessing that JB wrote out a list of “talking points” for people to choose from when writing the letters. If Josh was supposedly giving the widow $2k out of the kindness of his heart, why does it sound like literally everyone in his circle knew about it? Either 1) he casually mentioned it to everyone, or 2) JB made sure to make it known so people could include it in the letter. 
 

Each letter seems to follow a similar format (I’m sure that was the lawyers instruction there): introduction, brief overview of Josh’s character, specific examples of his character, community impact, and a closing request. I think JB probably instructed people to write similar things to make it sound like EVERYBODY sees Josh the same way. 
 

Does anyone know if letters were written for the prosecution? When is sentencing?

[Father Son Holy Goat]

8 minutes ago, G33kywife said:

Does anyone know if letters were written for the prosecution? When is sentencing?

Wouldn’t those be victim impact statements?

[Antimony]

13 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Wouldn’t those be victim impact statements?

We know from the Prosecution memo that there is at least one victim impact statement in the packet. I don't think the prosecution will collect character statements outside of that, but to my knowledge, there's nothing stopping anybody from writing to a judge. Sadie, Leaving Eden Podcast, wrote a letter to the judge on the Jack Schaap case and the negative impact he had outside of his crimes and got some sort of form letter confirming it was in his file. So, I think anybody could but I don't think anybody would. If anybody, maybe Jill and Derrick because they've made the most babysteps and Derrick would know that Jill could, and Jill would have obvious knowledge of the fact that "support system" means "enablers" here and could explain that to the judge. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

"Kind and compassionate"? No, Duggars, kind and compassionate people do not get their jollies watching toddlers being tortured.

Interestingly, Amy Duggar King describes him as “kind” but with a “sinister “ side that Michelle and Anna ignore.

But I’m inclined to agree with you. 

Still, people are complicated, so who knows? Maybe he can evince kindness with some people under certain circumstances. If so, he must be breathtakingly compartmentalized inside to deny kindness to abused children. 

Either that, or the “kindness” Amy saw had an ulterior motive. 

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

For me, it’s about the juxtaposition of Michelle signing her name with a heart on a letter vouching for her son convicted of possessing and receiving child sex abuse material.

The same son who sexually abused his sisters, who are *checks notes*  HER CHILDREN? 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Wouldn’t those be victim impact statements?

I should think so.

There may not be any, beyond the mother quoted in the prosecution's memorandum.  I'm not sure, but even if someone like Jill wanted to give a negative statement about Josh, he was not convicted of any crime directly related to her and so it might not be considered as a victim statement.  But I don't know for sure.  

I don't think it matters either way. This is hardly the judge's first rodeo with people like Josh, and I'm sure he's reading all the shit about kindness, Keller ramps, widows, and crackers and thinking, "Yet another manipulative SOB".

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

On 5/14/2022 at 2:42 AM, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Everyone has a story; most of these guys have families.  I don't think the judge will be impressed by the silly letters.

With that said, 12 - 15 years seems high based on past sentences handed down by this judge. I can only see that happening if he puts a lot of weight on teen Josh's behavior. The state may be stretching their claim of number of images downloaded as well.  We'll know soon enough where he's going and for how long.

 

I'm thinking 6-10 years. Unfortunately 20 years does not seem likely from what I have read. Hope I'm proved wrong. 

[fundiefan]

Wow. Talk about delusional. Those letters scare the crap out of me; the though they believe their own words not much worse than the thought  they're trying to play the system. 

My cousin's son got himself into some trouble & I wrote a character reference for him. The point is always the same - find one thing the person did that was good & blow it up big on paper. But, the judge see's through it all, usually. My cousin's son is bipolar & he truly is a compassionate young man, but he's also untreated & a loose cannon & causes & gets into a shit ton of trouble. There is really no way to separate that with a character reference type letter. The judge knows what the person is charged for and the judge knows the people writing letters love the one charged & will do anything to help them/lessen the consequences. 

I Just cannot get over the letters. I am sincerely dumbfounded by these people. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

26 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I should think so.

There may not be any, beyond the mother quoted in the prosecution's memorandum.  I'm not sure, but even if someone like Jill wanted to give a negative statement about Josh, he was not convicted of any crime directly related to her and so it might not be considered as a victim statement.  But I don't know for sure.  

I don't think it matters either way. This is hardly the judge's first rodeo with people like Josh, and I'm sure he's reading all the shit about kindness, Keller ramps, widows, and crackers and thinking, "Yet another manipulative SOB".

I do hope we get a victim impact statement from Jill or even Jinger but I’m not sure we will or if it’s even possible. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

28 minutes ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

I'm thinking 6-10 years. Unfortunately 20 years does not seem likely from what I have read. Hope I'm proved wrong. 

Emily D. Baker (YouTube) has said 8 - 12 all along, but also says she finds Federal sentencing to be on the light side. Given this judge's history with the sentencing of CSAM criminals, I'd say 20 years is next to impossible.  Keep in mind guys convicted of these crimes are often looking at the exact same material as Josh.  It's been out there for a long time. These guys aren't looking at naturist teens at the beach.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:59 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Posted on r/duggarsnark

 

@JermajestyDuggar would know, but I think most if not all of the Wilson kids are adults. 

Also a better question might be why Josh was giving this widow money when he and his kids lived on his parents property in a warehouse?

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Yes, almost all the Wilson kids are adults and/or married. The youngest boy might be like 16/17 right now. But I believe everyone else is grown. Jonah and his long time girlfriend who is a Hackel (Duggar friends) just got married in Hawaii. They are no longer fundie. I think Denise made it to the wedding. But not many people did. 

[Satan'sFortress]

I was thinking all along that Josh should get the maximum sentence allowed,  but knowing that he brought someone a box of diarrhea medication during the pandemic has made me reconsider everything.  I think he should be released immediately. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I honestly wonder if Clark had done some work for Josh at some point and he was just paying it back after he died. Clark died in Jan 2018 I believe. Because remember Josh and Anna’s old house they sold? There was work done on it after they moved back from DC and before they sold it and moved into the warehouse. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I honestly wonder if Clark had done some work for Josh at some point and he was just paying it back after he died. Clark died in Jan 2018 I believe. 

That's what fundie wiki says. 

[Bethy]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

The same son who sexually abused his sisters, who are *checks notes*  HER CHILDREN? 

I think this underscores how women/victims of SA are regarded in their circles. Gothard's teaching blames the victims for immodesty/defrauding and says they share blame in what happened to them. So yes, the girls who were abused by him ARE her children, but I think she truly has been taught to believe that if they'd been more careful with their clothing, how they sat, eye contact, etc., it wouldn't have happened so it's poor Josh, he's just got such a good heart, we won't talk about what he did to his sisters because he couldn't help himself and it was their fault anyway.

[I say this as someone who was verbally sexually harassed in middle school but never reported it to anyone because I knew my parents would ask about my clothes, posture, etc. and tell me I had brought it on myself, and I couldn't handle that blame. It was easier to rework my schedule to avoid the guy who did it, wear clothes that concealed me better, and deal with the nightmares in silence, than to tell them and have it come out of their mouths that I was to blame.]

[Jackie3]

41 minutes ago, Bethy said:

I think this underscores how women/victims of SA are regarded in their circles. Gothard's teaching blames the victims for immodesty/defrauding and says they share blame in what happened to them. So yes, the girls who were abused by him ARE her children, but I think she truly has been taught to believe that if they'd been more careful with their clothing, how they sat, eye contact, etc., it wouldn't have happened so it's poor Josh, he's just got such a good heart, we won't talk about what he did to his sisters because he couldn't help himself and it was their fault anyway.

 

It's not just SA, it's PA too. I once worked with an oppositional, angry boy who routinely beat up his little sister and once, while doing so, accidentally broke her arm.  In meetings, his mother would say things like, "They were just wrestling." "She can tease him something awful." Once she chided me, "Aw, you've made him feel bad, by bringing up the broken arm again." The sister was right there, watching her mom love on her assaultive son. 

Exact same dynamic. It' was the sister's fault, we won't talk about it, let's forget about it, let's not make the boy feel bad.

[G33kywife]

3 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Wouldn’t those be victim impact statements?

Yes thank you. I couldn’t remember the term!!

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Interestingly, Amy Duggar King describes him as “kind” but with a “sinister “ side that Michelle and Anna ignore.

But I’m inclined to agree with you. 

Still, people are complicated, so who knows? Maybe he can evince kindness with some people under certain circumstances. If so, he must be breathtakingly compartmentalized inside to deny kindness to abused children. 

Either that, or the “kindness” Amy saw had an ulterior motive. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he was kind...even very kind.  Speculation: He got off on the CSAM but on some level realized that even "just watching" (I doubt he ever viewed himself as part of the overall problem) made him a creep.  By exhibiting kindness to those around him he would likely receive positive feedback, and that feedback helped push away any negative thoughts.  If so, I would expect him to be nicest after viewing the worst of it.  Same speculation around the times he was molesting as a teenager and joining/using AM.

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he was kind...even very kind.  Speculation: He got off on the CSAM but on some level realized that even "just watching" (I doubt he ever viewed himself as part of the overall problem) made him a creep.  By exhibiting kindness to those around him he would likely receive positive feedback, and that feedback helped push away any negative thoughts.  If so, I would expect him to be nicest after viewing the worst of it.  Same speculation around the times he was molesting as a teenager and joining/using AM.

I could see him using this type of reasoning.

Do you think Josh despises children? Piss him off? Like by the time he was an adult he could no longer stand the notion of “another kid’? 

I truly believe that living in the situation he did as a child seriously eff’d him up.