Duggars by the Dozen 43: One in Jail, Another Made Bail, and a Senate Election Fail

[Cheetah]

15 minutes ago, JMO said:

I watched the tik toks. So Josh was savvy enough to secretly download 1000s of porn files but not savvy enough to wipe the hard drives. That totally fits with what happened with the CSAM. And clearly he was stupid enough to not learn after getting caught the first time. I wish that he had said when that occurred.  Anyone know his age? He said that he was 10.

Bowman said on one of his comments that he's 28 now.  Also said later he wasn't totally sure if he was 10 when this happened.. was in the 10-12 range.

[MadameOvary]

3 hours ago, JMO said:

I watched the tik toks. So Josh was savvy enough to secretly download 1000s of porn files but not savvy enough to wipe the hard drives. That totally fits with what happened with the CSAM. And clearly he was stupid enough to not learn after getting caught the first time. I wish that he had said when that occurred.  Anyone know his age? He said that he was 10.

Well... Josh wasn't the only sex obsessed man living in the house. Just saying.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 12/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, xenobia said:

Late to the party here, but I have another top contender for next in line to the Duggar empire. Forgett Jessa/Ben and Joe/Kendra. Have y'all forgotten about Jed! and Katey? The only other son (so far) to run for office. He's married to a pretty girl and has a kid on his way. And he seems to be just as smug, self-loving and kool-aid-drinking as his father. I would not be surprised if J&K and their 5+ kids are the one who moves into the TTH in 10 years or so. 

I think I have it figured out.

Ben and Jessa move into the big house; they take the master suite and their kids get split into the gendered bedrooms. Anna, disgraced wife of fallen golden boy moves into the laundry room guest room, her kids are dispersed into the gendered bedrooms. She’s now under the headship of Ben and does the laundry.

Jana continues to live in the girl’s room and now raises all the kids. This frees up Jessa and Ben to have more kids and make videos for their ministry.

With 11 kids, 3 adults, 1 Jana it’s close to the original numbers. 
I’m not saying I’d want this to happen but I could see it happening. It works with the fundie thought process and what we know of these people.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Father Son Holy Goat

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, JMO said:

I watched the tik toks. So Josh was savvy enough to secretly download 1000s of porn files but not savvy enough to wipe the hard drives. That totally fits with what happened with the CSAM. And clearly he was stupid enough to not learn after getting caught the first time. I wish that he had said when that occurred.  Anyone know his age? He said that he was 10.

What I found most interesting is that the porn was on all the computers.  You would think if only one person was viewing porn that person would have stuck to the same computer.  Could be there were different viewers on different computers and maybe they didn’t know about each other.  (And none of them knew how to really wipe down a computer.🙄)

I find it amazing that Josh, whom everyone agrees is tech-savvy, didn’t erase those computers better.  The stuff the feds found in the car lot computer may have been erased enough that only an expert could find it, but the stuff on the “home schooling” computers had to be just barely deleted if a 10-12 year-old found it.

 

[imokit]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I find it amazing that Josh, whom everyone agrees is tech-savvy, didn’t erase those computers better.  The stuff the feds found in the car lot computer may have been erased enough that only an expert could find it, but the stuff on the “home schooling” computers had to be just barely deleted if a 10-12 year-old found it.

 

I don't think he cared.  He's Josh.  The golden boy, the oldest, the heir, the male.  He was untouchable.  He touched his sisters and was still allowed to remain in the home, they were still expected to obey him as he was older, feed him and do his laundry.

Why would he need to cover his tracks.  He knew by that point that porn was the least of his parents worries, he'd survived the consequences for the molestation by that point - the church shaming and head shaving and was back as if nothing had happened.  He knew that if he'd been caught, nothing worse would happen, if anything it would get him more privacy and privilege to keep him away from his siblings.

[Mama Mia]

10 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think I have it figured out.

Ben and Jessa move into the big house; they take the master suite and their kids get split into the gendered bedrooms. Anna, disgraced wife of fallen golden boy moves into the laundry room guest room, her kids are dispersed into the gendered bedrooms. She’s now under the headship of Ben and does the laundry.

Jana continues to live in the girl’s room and now raises all the kids. This frees up Jessa and Ben to have more kids and make videos for their ministry.

With 11 kids, 3 adults, 1 Jana it’s close to the original numbers. 
I’m not saying I’d want this to happen but I could see it happening. It works with the fundie thought process and what we know of these people.

So where are JB, Michelle and the half dozen teens ? Have they moved to a different house?  Or is this scenario in the future? Unless it’s a REALLy  nice house, I couldn’t see them moving out of the TTH yet. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 minute ago, Mama Mia said:

So where are JB, Michelle and the half dozen teens ? Have they moved to a different house?  Or is this scenario in the future? Unless it’s a REALLy  nice house, I couldn’t see them moving out of the TTH yet. 

This is the future, when the rest of the teens are married off.

[just_ordinary]

On 12/18/2021 at 5:31 PM, Idlewild said:

Lots of right wing Daily Mail reading types in the UK love the Radfords because the dad has a bakery and they supposedly don’t claim state benefits ( and also because they are white, but they don’t actually come out and say that).

My problem with that is that the bakery is just a single business - it’s not a chain or million pound operation. They certainly will have got child benefit initially until the qualification for it was modified. They also have had NHS  deliveries and healthcare for them and for all their children, state education and all the other resources they use up. And yes, she was 13 when he, an 18 year old, got her pregnant for the 1st time and I have a huge problem with that being swept under the rug because they later got married.

I have a big problem with the BIB. Maybe I am reading it wrongly though? I don’t get why it’s a problem that it’s not a multi million pound business? If they are able to support their family with it that is absolutely fine? NHS healthcare and state education is well within their rights and I have no problem with anyone using it - they pay taxes (even though probably quite a bit less because of some child benefit clauses). That’s how solidarity works and it’s not using up resources. That fact that those resources are tight for everyone is not their fault. If they shouldn’t use NHS healthcare resources you can bet that argument in different ways could be applied to more than half of the UK. That is not the idea of general healthcare though.

The initial age gap is pretty concerning, especially because it seems that no one really batter and eye when it went on. One can only hope that the fact that they are seemingly still happy together means they would have made a similar course of they had waited for physical relations after she got over a certain age. I am very happy that nowadays the age difference gets taken into account till both parents reach a certain age.

I don’t say all this to defend them personally. There are tons of issues and I think that should be way more talked about than just using them like circus entertainment.

But your BIB is problematic to me because while I think people shouldn’t have more children as they can afford I don’t think that applies to the general and child benefits most people use and receive even though they live comfortably. Be it child allowance, healthcare, education, tax benefits…… I still have to meet the person that voluntarily gives it up to “spare resources” and pay out of their own pockets - which would be a huge financial burden. If they do it’s more for better treatment or more prestigious schools. You sometimes hear about people not taking on the child allowance but those a very very few, well situated people- I doubt they make up even 1%.

[MadameOvary]

I second everything @just_ordinary said. There are certainly problems, but using up resources is not one of them, unless you are looking at it from the global, climate etc perspective - then none of us should be having more than 1.5 or so children. That aside, these children are getting an education and have an example of hardworking parents, so the odds are most of them will grow up to be contributing members of society.

[Bobology]

You know what's really weird? Josh was able to touch his sisters a lot, but boy howdy, he better not touch himself! He was probably the reason all the boys have to sleep in jeans. This is my opinion, but I've always thought the boys all wore jeans to bed because it would be difficult for them to touch themselves discreetly or during sleep. Most slept in bunk beds that would easily shake with movement.

[Mela99]

I don’t know if this has been discussed yet but something occurred to me while I was sitting here today every story that has come out every person that has commented all of the fingers and the criticism is pointed solely at Rim Job. I have yet to hear a real “Michelle, this is on you!”

Is it because she’s a woman and has no power in her family? Is she as brain washed as the rest? Does she disagree with her wONdeRfuL hUsBanD and knows the best she can do is to keep sweet?

I feel like there’s not enough blame for her as there should be.

[Cam]

It’s a fair question but their religion claims the husband/man is head of household. I take this to mean he has final say on decisions. Wife must obey. 

In the real world, many moms would be screaming, arguing, coming to the defense of their daughters, demanding that they be kept safe from harm regardless what punishment and life changes that means for the child molester son.

[Bobology]

13 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I have yet to hear a real “Michelle, this is on you!”

Is it because she’s a woman and has no power in her family? Is she as brain washed as the rest? Does she disagree with her wONdeRfuL hUsBanD and knows the best she can do is to keep sweet?

I feel like there’s not enough blame for her as there should be.

Although I've seen plenty of comments about both parents needing to take the  blame, I do believe Michelle has to be sweet about all of JB's rules and spewings. Like Anna, Michelle is also culpable for being less than a decent parent. I also believe the patriarchy business makes it more difficult than we can fathom (more difficult does not mean impossible)to stand up and be better. I have never bought into the idea of Michelle wearing the pants in that relationship. If she did, and had from the beginning, we'd likely be seeing a different family altogether. 

I've had to accept the fact that I cannot truly judge Michelle or Anna for their roles in all the mess because I have no experience with their type of religion-cultish ways. I have judged them in the past, but after reading here from so many former members of cultish-type christian religions I realize I cannot fathom the duress the women are under. This does not mean I'm giving them a pass but that I cannot judge them on way or another.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Bobology

[Dandruff]

Can Josh receive Christmas presents in jail?  This is assuming anyone would want to send him anything.

[Coconut Flan]

They could send him books from approved sources and money in his commissary account.  That's about all he's allowed in federal prison.  He'll be in county jail this Christmas.  They don't seem much more lenient.  I'll see if their website has anything.

The Washington County jail doesn't seem accept packages for prisoners.  

They'll allow paperback books to be dropped off not earmarked for a specific detainee and approved eyeglasses and medication.  

Edited December 21, 2021 by Coconut Flan

[imokit]

3 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I don’t know if this has been discussed yet but something occurred to me while I was sitting here today every story that has come out every person that has commented all of the fingers and the criticism is pointed solely at Rim Job. I have yet to hear a real “Michelle, this is on you!”

Is it because she’s a woman and has no power in her family? Is she as brain washed as the rest? Does she disagree with her wONdeRfuL hUsBanD and knows the best she can do is to keep sweet?

I feel like there’s not enough blame for her as there should be.

I've always said JB & M did x & y.  The only thing I assign to JB alone, is the borderline perjury from not remembering things in the trial. (Joshley is in Jail didn't you know?)

Michelle (unlike Anna) wasn't raised in a cult.  She has an equal responsibility to her daughters as JB.  My husband told me to do x is not an excuse.

Michelle (like Anna) has resources to get out, and to get her daughters out.

She could have gone to the police at the time, when she found out what Josh was doing to her daughters she didn't.

She is as culpable as JB and we while I sympathize with how crap her choices were I won't infantilise her and demean women by shoving responsibility on the man.  She knew her son was breaking the law and abusing her daughters, she kept quiet.

 

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, imokit said:

She knew her son was breaking the law and abusing her daughters, she kept quiet.

Then accepted a bunch of MOTY awards.

[neuroticcat]

5 hours ago, imokit said:

I've always said JB & M did x & y.  The only thing I assign to JB alone, is the borderline perjury from not remembering things in the trial. (Joshley is in Jail didn't you know?)

Michelle (unlike Anna) wasn't raised in a cult.  She has an equal responsibility to her daughters as JB.  My husband told me to do x is not an excuse.

Michelle (like Anna) has resources to get out, and to get her daughters out.

She could have gone to the police at the time, when she found out what Josh was doing to her daughters she didn't.

She is as culpable as JB and we while I sympathize with how crap her choices were I won't infantilise her and demean women by shoving responsibility on the man.  She knew her son was breaking the law and abusing her daughters, she kept quiet.

 

I agree. I think the fundie misogyny complicates things for women, but it doesn’t excuse them. Even the fundiest of fundies say you need to obey God over your husband, so she could have told the truth instead of deceiving others about the situation. She did what she wanted to do. Maybe she told herself she was under JB’s umbrella, and he was accountable for his sins, and her only accountability was to submit (as I’ve often heard for wives reasoning to go along with ATI husbands bad decisions) but by her own religious beliefs, lying is also wrong, so…

[AprilQuilt]

On 12/20/2021 at 6:47 AM, just_ordinary said:

I have a big problem with the BIB. Maybe I am reading it wrongly though? I don’t get why it’s a problem that it’s not a multi million pound business? If they are able to support their family with it that is absolutely fine? NHS healthcare and state education is well within their rights and I have no problem with anyone using it - they pay taxes (even though probably quite a bit less because of some child benefit clauses). That’s how solidarity works and it’s not using up resources. That fact that those resources are tight for everyone is not their fault. If they shouldn’t use NHS healthcare resources you can bet that argument in different ways could be applied to more than half of the UK. That is not the idea of general healthcare though.

The initial age gap is pretty concerning, especially because it seems that no one really batter and eye when it went on. One can only hope that the fact that they are seemingly still happy together means they would have made a similar course of they had waited for physical relations after she got over a certain age. I am very happy that nowadays the age difference gets taken into account till both parents reach a certain age.

I don’t say all this to defend them personally. There are tons of issues and I think that should be way more talked about than just using them like circus entertainment.

But your BIB is problematic to me because while I think people shouldn’t have more children as they can afford I don’t think that applies to the general and child benefits most people use and receive even though they live comfortably. Be it child allowance, healthcare, education, tax benefits…… I still have to meet the person that voluntarily gives it up to “spare resources” and pay out of their own pockets - which would be a huge financial burden. If they do it’s more for better treatment or more prestigious schools. You sometimes hear about people not taking on the child allowance but those a very very few, well situated people- I doubt they make up even 1%.

I agree, it's a total straw man to criticise them for having received the benefits that really everybody gets, especially NHS care. Plenty of people wealthier than the Radfords use the NHS and receive child tax credits. Healthcare is not a cost that many people in this country factor into their budgeting because they just don't need to (yay NHS!).

It's like saying that by taking their kids to the library they dodged the cost of buying their own books, or that sending them to state school was a wheeze to avoid paying private fees - these services exist to help families who ARE managing to KEEP managing, and honour everyone's right to dignity, education, healthcare; they are not meant to be a a source of shame or a last resort for the desperate. Of course the Radfords should use them, they have as much a right as anyone else and if it means a better standard of care, education and socialisation for their children then that's great, job done. Mind you, all these things have been slashed to the bone anyway.

TL,DR: there is plenty to actually criticise or find problematic about the Radfords so I'll just stick to that.

[Cheetah]

Guys!!!! I was just on Twitter and "Jim Bob" is trending... but it's a different Jim Bob!!!! Who knew.... another JimBob acting poorly...

https://www.rawstory.com/flag-pole-attacker-indicted/

"Jim Bob Elliott is the latest Capitol attacker to be indicted for allegedly beating cops with a flag pole" 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 12/20/2021 at 5:33 PM, Dandruff said:

Can Josh receive Christmas presents in jail?  This is assuming anyone would want to send him anything.

If Josh could get outside presents I’d hope he gets a journal, because he could use some introspection. 

6 hours ago, Cheetah said:

Guys!!!! I was just on Twitter and "Jim Bob" is trending... but it's a different Jim Bob!!!! Who knew.... another JimBob acting poorly...

https://www.rawstory.com/flag-pole-attacker-indicted/

"Jim Bob Elliott is the latest Capitol attacker to be indicted for allegedly beating cops with a flag pole" 

Did you see that the guy who voices Jimmy Pesto on Bobs Burgers at the Capital Riot?

[FleeJanaFree]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:33 PM, Bobology said:He was probably the reason all the boys have to sleep in jeans. This is my opinion, but I've always thought the boys all wore jeans to bed because it would be difficult for them to touch themselves discreetly or during sleep. Most slept in bunk beds that would easily shake with movement.

Exactly my thoughts.
 

Sleeping in jeans (especially those super stiff ones in the 90s) must have been so uncomfortable! I can’t even bear to wear the stretchy type of skinny jeans now for more than half a day and I’m 33 years old on paper. (85 in my heart) they really denied their children comfort for sleep because god forbid they masterbate. (And if they’re interested, ain’t no way a pair of jeans is going to stop them.) 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Sorry if this has already been posted. I hope they expose Gil Bates being on the board of IBLP but I feel like they always get away with shit. 
 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/docuseries-duggars-other-reality-tv-214522691.html

Edited December 23, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[SassyPants]

When was gathering last time we heard from or saw Michelle Duggar?

[vicky3vicky]

My take on the parental faiilures differ from most of those I have read. Perhaps partially because of my own experiences as a sexually abused child, partially because I am Autistic and view the world differently than others, and partially because 5 DECADES later, when they discovered I was speaking and sharing my abuse with others at Autistic conferences and retreats [because it turns out many Autistics were sexually abused as children and still as adults] my family, to get revenge for me sharing 'family secrets", when I was diagnosed with a particularly invasive breast cancer convinced practically my entire community I was FAKING. It was beyond horrible.[So, when I had breast cancer, had a double mastectomy, lost my hair, was burnt, went through chemo and was reconstructed, was I afraid I would die? Um, yeah, mostly afraid I would die from suicide during my darkest times]

I do not think the Duggars handled the abuse well. They did though, initially, handle things the way their religion, which was their everything, taught. I grossly disagree with their actions but I can understand where they thought they were doing right.

For me, THIS is when they totally royally fucked up. They knew there were problems at home and they continued having babies rather than spending the time helping their daughters. That sickens me. What sickens me even more is when they "sold their souls"  for fame and money with that godawful tv show. They couldn't have been so stupid as to believe that what Josh had done to his siblings could come out, and in front of the entire world. 

I am also disgusted how they used their abused daughters, having them minimize the truth of their abuse publicly to bring back the show, so that they could continue receiving their 40 grand an episode.

I HATE my brother for what he did to me and to other little girls and am disgusted by my family allowing, even encouraging  it. That being said, if my son was to wind up in a courtroom for anything similar, guilty or not, I would be in the courtroom every day to show my truly unconditional love. I would NOT be on a parade float campaigning for a public office.

[