Duggars by the Dozen 43: One in Jail, Another Made Bail, and a Senate Election Fail

[EmCatlyn]

51 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Long ago he said something about wanting to work with under served people, I forget the exact wording but I got the impression he wanted to work with people who needed help rather than corporate.

I do think he's being genuine in speaking out both for Jill and not wanting JB to win that election, but there is collateral benefit IMO to him speaking out so strongly against his in-laws right now for his career.  He went on record calling out the family's shadiness and that can only help him outside of the toxic Duggar circles he wouldn't work in anyway.

I bet JB is so pissed Derek didn't drink the kool-aid, besides all this he's missing out on free legal representation for his corruption.  

I always thought that JB hoped Derek would be the accountant that helped him cook the books better. 😉  I am sure the law degree would have been an added benefit, if Derek could have stayed with the kool-aid.  (It is unlikely, however, that Derek would have thought of law school if he had fully drunk the kool-aid. Part of the effects of the kool-aid is you must turn off your brain.)

You are right that by calling out the family’s shadiness, Derek is effectively positioning himself outside the Duggars in the public mind. I hadn’t really thought about the potential career benefits until now.  I had mostly seen it as another example of Derek’s need for a “cause.”

 

[AprilQuilt]

1 hour ago, imokit said:

The problem with those two is that they are the least charismatic of all the couples.  Even on the show, Joe was quiet and had among the least airtime.

While they look to be the best and breeding and not offending anyone, they don't have the charisma (or brains) to monetise.  JB & M are clever, and can talk well.  Jessa is clever and engaging when she speaks.  Joe is not.

The brand will go to someone who's toeing the line, but also preaching and engaging people.  At the moment it looks like Jessa.

I agree with your analysis here, a broadly inoffensive* young couple with nothing to say and no apparent desire to have a public profile are not what 'the brand' needs. I can't see any of the quiet married Duggar sons being reality TV material, they are far too boring. And that's probably a good thing.

On the other hand, I don't think Jessa needs to take up any mantle. TV and media has changed a lot since TLC first picked up the Duggars, and although she just has an average amount of children and her daily life is unremarkable, to her target audience she is a well-liked and familiar figure, and many of her fans will be happy to look past both the scandal in her family and her failure to denounce it. For her the money and success lies in being a cute family vlogger, not in being Jim Bob's heir apparent and continuing the empire from where it was so rudely interrupted. She's no more problematic than many other influencers, and the followers of those people tend not to delve too deep. So I think the idea that she 'needs' a TLC show or that she couldn't be of interest unless she has double digits of kids is actually quite old fashioned now. It's just not really how things work any more. She has enough of a platform that she can just be Jessa now and people will watch.

 

*bar all the usual

[Mama Mia]

Am I the only one finding the looooonnggg wordy dueling rants between the lawyer and preacher spouses funny? 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Do you think he will?  Do lawyers have an ethical obligation (professionally) to tell a client to the best of their knowledge if a case is strong or not?  

Like if they feel the case is likely not to win on appeal do they legally have to tell them that and if the client insists take it anyway and give it a shot?

I'm not sure he will.  I do think he'll definitely have discussions about it.  Yes, lawyers should give an honest evaluation of the prospects of a successful appeal.  Otherwise it's simply taking people's money.  

The lawyer is never or rarely obliged to take a case especially an appeal.  Frequently clients may want a different attorney for an appeal anyway.  Many attorneys do not do appeal work at all and many are not competent to do it.  The lawyers can offer many reasons not to take a case, but in the end the lawyer gets to decide if he/she wants to handle it when approached by a prospective or even a prior client.  

[SassyPants]

At the onset of their relationship, I thought Derek would free Jill. I really did, but then he: quit WM, immediately impregnated his wife, tried to hit the cat, wandered aimlessly, refused to hold a job, spoke out against Jazz…But I will give credit where credit is due. He seems to have righted the ship, and is back to using his brain. I do wish that Jill had been the person to speak out. She lived the nightmare of having JBD and MD as pseudo parents. She knows the truth and knows she knows the truth.

[AprilQuilt]

50 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

JillRod would be on that like flies on poop, still.

if anything, JillRod is horny for persecution and would see this as a great opportunity. Like a fire sale. She already had Nurie pick out her wedding dress when she was 13, now she can go a step further and preemptively line up bargainacious Duggar spouses for many of her children while their shares are low and nobody else will touch them. Who cares if they don't suit one another? The Rods dgaf about anything matching.

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Do you think he will?  Do lawyers have an ethical obligation (professionally) to tell a client to the best of their knowledge if a case is strong or not?  

Like if they feel the case is likely not to win on appeal do they legally have to tell them that and if the client insists take it anyway and give it a shot?  

IANAL, but I have worked for various law firms/attorneys over the years.  Attorneys have to carry professional liability insurance, and that is expensive.  If Josh asks a law firm to consider filing an appeal for him, they would probably review the trial transcripts and other documents related to his trial and conviction and then advise him on the chances that his appeal would be successful or not.  That's what a reputable attorney should do, because if an attorneys provides incompetent legal counsel, they can be sued for malpractice - and whether they prevail or not, their malpractice insurance rates will go even higher.  Not to mention, an unhappy client can file a complaint with the State Bar, which could then impact the attorney's ability to practice law.  

I think if a client insists they want to proceed even after their attorney has advised them their chances of prevailing are slim, the attorney should put their opinions in writing, and have the client sign the letter stating they have received full disclosure of the possible outcomes.  That way, if the result goes against the client and the client tries to sue the attorney, they have documentation of what was discussed and they proceeded with the client's full approval.

[Gobsmacked]

7 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Someone needs to write new lyrics to "The Devil Went Down to Georgia. "

Calling Thoughtful……..

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

14 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I know they have the cell towers on their property and did the TLC gig, but I still think there are shady money practices that JBD has been involved with for years. He was living in a 3 bedroom with 17 people, and according to some of the children there were food scarcity issues, yet he had 6 digit amounts of money to plunge into campaigns, has supported multiple families for years, has planes, trains (if he could) and enough automobiles and homes for 10 families. I’m  not seeing a legal way for these people to have amassed this amount of money. I’ll be waiting for the financial shoe to fall on JBD’s helmeted head.

Did they have the planes pre-TLC money?

I don’t understand the food scarcity issue. They could get a few $k in food stamps/WIC with all these kids, or he’d have enough money to buy food.

 

 

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Some of the Duggar kids can definitely rebrand and if they do it right, they could be successful. Influencers rebrand all the time. I’m just unsure of who has the ability amongst the kids. 

I think the more well-known of the Duggar offspring (I'm thinking primarily of the older daughters, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy) will continue to have most of their current followers, but as time goes on and they remain off of television - other religious conservatives with a more active presence will eventually draw away some of their leg-humpers.  Jessa seems the most active at presenting an appealing image of a SAHM conservative Christian mom with cute children.  She posts a lot on her Instagram account.  Jinger and Jeremy have chosen to stop showing their children's faces (and even photos showing the children from behind are infrequent), and I am glad they made that choice - but how many people want to see yet another photo of Jinger or Jeremy drinking a latte, or Jeremy wearing a bow tie and holding an expensive pen?  Those two are boring as all get out.  Joy does share family photos, including many of her two children, which probably get the most likes and clicks, but is it enough to generate a decent income?  I have no idea.  But at least her husband is a hard worker and appears to be earning a sufficient income to support his family.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I know they have the cell towers on their property and did the TLC gig, but I still think there are shady money practices that JBD has been involved with for years. He was living in a 3 bedroom with 17 people, and according to some of the children there were food scarcity issues, yet he had 6 digit amounts of money to plunge into campaigns, has supported multiple families for years, has planes, trains (if he could) and enough automobiles and homes for 10 families. I’m  not seeing a legal way for these people to have amassed this amount of money. I’ll be waiting for the financial shoe to fall on JBD’s helmeted head.

Don't ask me where as it was ages ago, but I recall reading that JB was still investing in properties when they were living like that.  Also wasn't that his house he sold to the church and got to live in it rent free until they were in the bigger place?  Clever as it got him out of property taxes and landlords do repairs and maintenance on their dime.  Anyone else remember the specifics of this?  

Like with the Rods, I get why people want to donate to children in need because heartstrings, but it just encourages these people to keep at it so more kids end up being neglected.  

[Bassett Lady]

25 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

horny for persecution

I managed to spew decaf coffee through my nose thanks to this little gem. 
 

 This could be the name of a new fundamentalist perfume, just imagine the advertising campaign! 

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, fluffernutter said:

I think jim boob is going to make his screening application for potential suitors even longer after the deviations of his kids and in laws. However, the question is, will the up-and-coming of age kids put up with his bs? Now that they've seen for themselves the splintering of the family and going through what has to be an insanely dysfunctional and difficult time at the house? Like seriously can you imagine the tension there right now? To be a fly on the wall... And lastly, will anyone ever want to marry into that shit-show? They went from being IBLP royalty to pariahs, at least that's what it seems to me. 

I worry about the sort of fundie families that would still want one of their sons to marry a Duggar daughter - seems like the potential suitors will be more bottom of the barrel than ever before after Josh's conviction.

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

JillRod would be on that like flies on poop, still.

OMG - what if she is (behind the scenes) already trying to arrange a courtship between her oldest son, Tim, and one of the Duggar daughters?

[käsekuchen]

@HerNameIsBuffy On Social Blade, Jessa's yearly earnings on Youtube are estimated to be between 1k and 16.1k. Recently, a German influencer stated that the upper number on Social Blade is rather accurate, so I'd calculate with that. I think Google pays a flat rate, so Youtube seems to be much easier to estimate than other social media channels.

Instagram is a lot harder - influencers set their own income per post, so the estimates have an incredibly large range: It could be around 700$ per post, it could be 5k or even 30k, depending on where you look. According to the internet, her engagement rate is actually quite good (which plays a role in what companies are willing to pay) - but I'll try to find the German influencer's video I mentioned above, she was also explaining what engagement should look like if you haven't bought any followers and how much influencers earn that way (many German inluencers are moving to tax havens, which was the reason for her video)

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

 

OMG - what if she is (behind the scenes) already trying to arrange a courtship between her oldest son, Tim, and one of the Duggar daughters?

I’m sure she’s tried in the past and got no luck. I really hope there’s never a Duggar Rod wedding. Even though it would be intensely snarky material.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I'm surprised that John David and Abbie are seeming to back Jim Bob and Michelle. John David appeared to be the most upset when the Ashley Madison scandal broke. As second oldest boy I had expected to see him mentioned as taking over for Jim Bob. I'll never understand the Duggar family!

I will never understand the Duggars either, but John David  seems like a classic follower. He has a strong sense of “duty” and he wants to be able to look up to the people he follows.  From childhood, Josh was the son their father favored, the one to be followed by the others.  Even during the period when Josh was getting in trouble for molesting girls and watching porn, the story was that Satan was putting a lot of obstacles in Josh’s way because he was so special.

JD was upset about the Ashley Madison scandal (which also came with Josh’s admission that he had been watching pornography) because it showed that Josh had been living a double life.  Josh had not been doing his “duty” and by giving in to Satan’s temptation had shown himself unworthy of being followed.

Supporting his father (now and always) is just part of how JD sees his duty.  His father is the leader. JD knows Josh was guilty.  He had already figured his older brother was a screw up. He may not really know the difference between CSAM and pornography, and he doesn’t care. If JB tells him that what Josh did was no big deal but the “liberals” made a big deal of it, JD probably believes it. I may be wrong, but JD doesn’t seem very bright or capable of critical thinking.  He is just following his father’s lead, as always.

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

am I the only one who never thought Austin and Joy were theologically in line with her parents? Austin's parents don't have a bunch of kids. They didn't "grift," they have a business with family camp. Austin actually works with a construction/flipping company. They have spoken on those BS freedom podcasts. I always assumed Austin was more the America/freedom/guns/hunting/bluecollar/originalist kind of conservative Christian, not whatever Jim Bob could be described as. If Joy and Austin "break free" they will be free from IBLP/ATI nonsense perhaps, but they will jump right into white nationalism etc. 

iI only learned recently that you can go to IBLP seminars or follow some principles without being ATI. You have to apply and be accepted to be in ATI and commit to significant lifestyle changes. So it could be that some of the adjacent families are familiar with IBLP but not as deep in it.

I think Jeremy will likely find a decently paying pastor job when he graduates. Lots of people follow MacArthur, so a polished, semi famous seminarian from his school (who seems to be in the inner circle there) will get a job.

JB was flipping houses and investing from earliest days. I think they’ll be fine financially. They’ve always been shrewd with money and in business. 

[Freejin]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

Am I the only one finding the looooonnggg wordy dueling rants between the lawyer and preacher spouses funny? 

Is there more??

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 hours ago, Funwithfundies said:

It keeps popping into my head that Josh is currently cooling his heels in solitary, oblivious to all the new Duggar drama.

Think of how much that must suck for him. He's such a loud mouthed, obnoxious type of extrovert too. Stuck alone in a single cell with some crappy old paperbacks. And all he has to look forward to is the spring - when he heads to prison.

Couldn't be happening to a nicer feller though.

[Antipatriarch]

2 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

And lastly, will anyone ever want to marry into that shit-show? They went from being IBLP royalty to pariahs, at least that's what it seems to me.

"[T]his false step in one [sibling] will be injurious to the fortunes of all the others; for who, as Lady Catherine herself condescendingly says, will connect themselves with such a family?"

JillRod (from off-stage): "WHO INDEED, SIR?!" waves hands

[3KidsAndStopped]

13 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

"[T]his false step in one [sibling] will be injurious to the fortunes of all the others; for who, as Lady Catherine herself condescendingly says, will connect themselves with such a family?"

JillRod (from off-stage): "WHO INDEED, SIR?!" waves hands

On FJ, I have found my people 😁

Mr Collins is basically a Regency, childless JB.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

Did they have the planes pre-TLC money?

I don’t understand the food scarcity issue. They could get a few $k in food stamps/WIC with all these kids, or he’d have enough money to buy food.

 

 

Nooo, no planes.

They had some money before TLC, but they spent a lot in JB political campaigns. We don't know if food issues were due to poverty or it was a control weapon or it was just JB cheapness. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

"[T]his false step in one [sibling] will be injurious to the fortunes of all the others; for who, as Lady Catherine herself condescendingly says, will connect themselves with such a family?"

JillRod (from off-stage): "WHO INDEED, SIR?!" waves hands

I’ve said it so many times on FJ: Jill Rod is absolutely a meaner and nastier version of Mrs. Bennet. Through and through.

[libgirl2]

55 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I will never understand the Duggars either, but John David  seems like a classic follower. He has a strong sense of “duty” and he wants to be able to look up to the people he follows.  From childhood, Josh was the son their father favored, the one to be followed by the others.  Even during the period when Josh was getting in trouble for molesting girls and watching porn, the story was that Satan was putting a lot of obstacles in Josh’s way because he was so special.

JD was upset about the Ashley Madison scandal (which also came with Josh’s admission that he had been watching pornography) because it showed that Josh had been living a double life.  Josh had not been doing his “duty” and by giving in to Satan’s temptation had shown himself unworthy of being followed.

Supporting his father (now and always) is just part of how JD sees his duty.  His father is the leader. JD knows Josh was guilty.  He had already figured his older brother was a screw up. He may not really know the difference between CSAM and pornography, and he doesn’t care. If JB tells him that what Josh did was no big deal but the “liberals” made a big deal of it, JD probably believes it. I may be wrong, but JD doesn’t seem very bright or capable of critical thinking.  He is just following his father’s lead, as always.

I also kind of wonder if now with Josh in disgrace, JD is now the golden child, the eldest...... and he wants to prove to his father that he deserves it. 

[SassyPants]

Yes, Jessa could be an influencer, but there’s a whole lot of competition in that arena, and the successful people tend to really work it. They have multiple posts a day, and many have a niche audience : cooking, health, fitness, beauty, home decorating, parenting advice, special needs…I’m just not seeing where Jessa fits into the successful influencer world. The women (I’ve never followed a male influencer) I follow work reallllllllly hard. I’m not sure a Duggar is suited for that lifestyle. 
 

TL:DR few people live the good life, long term, without having any knowledge, skills, education, work history or ethic. In order to get paid, you have to be able to do something that people are willing to spend money for or  need. Unfortunately, the Duggars were paid to live their lives, and that has tainted those former kids, now adults, reality of work.

Edited December 15, 2021 by SassyPants