(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[louisa05]

Just now, nausicaa said:

I used to do SAT tutoring and would sometimes get religious homeschooled (and private schooled) kids who'd just bombed the test (to the shock of their parents who were positive Jr. would get a perfect score). 

And the kid would somehow think the first session was about him lecturing me or trying to convert me? Like, bud, you just got an 800 on the SAT, why don't you let me do the talking here?

It was always that their curriculum and students and staff (as a whole—individually some of us were worthless) and policies were the best and every other school on the planet  was wrong. 
 

And students certainly could do no wrong. (Only small things that aren’t wrong—like wearing evil nail polish colors) There were whispers of seniors planning to take drugs along on the senior mission trip one year. Those of us who heard it tried to report it. The admins basically said “our kids wouldn’t do that”. Kids did it, took photos of themselves using and developed them in the school darkroom when they got home. 

[Tatar-tot]

5 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

Update: they’re discussing dismissing for the day and resuming Monday. Apparently there is much more testimony to be heard, including expert witnesses, Jill, Jed, cellmate and the rest of the Holts. A lot more to get through.

should be an interesting weekend for Anna. I’m curious to see how they leave, when they leave, and if she’ll be with Josh on Monday.

I am wondering if Josh will take a plea Monday morning or the judge is hope he does.

[Galbin]

Guys, please note that when the SUN says "WARNING: Please be advised this post includes extremely disturbing material." be very careful. When this originally came out I unfortunately found out more than I wanted to, but it turns out there was even more which I found out yesterday. So be very careful.

I will likely have to deal with this stuff in my professional life when I qualify, but others will not.

Sending love and virtual hugs to anyone who has been triggered by this evil.

[EmmieJ]

I just finished up reading posts that came in overnight on the last thread, and will begin reading through this new thread - but before I do, I too want to thank FJ and the posters here for these threads because I am choosing not to read news reports or twitter/etc. because I don't want the more graphic descriptions.  I am crying enough just from what I read here.

I also want to say "fuck you" to Meechelle for pretending children are a blessing, but then subjecting her own children to the unspeakable.  Fuck you to JB - I hope your community turns its collective back on you and that you are shunned for the remainder of your pitiful existence, and  used as an example of "a phony parading around as a Godly man."  Your father had your number, and you knew he had your number, which is why you treated him so poorly in his final days and talk him down.  You worthless piece of shit.

I think Josh will be convicted and I hope they take him into custody immediately following the verdict.  May he rot in prison for many years to come.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I honestly do think JB and company thought they could throw around a few names about who else could have done this and it would be easy going. 

JB is so power drunk and has been for decades that he thought he could easily win. He even thought he could tell the judge what to allow!

[JermajestyDuggar]

I know people need a break but I kind of wish they would keep going today. Only because the longer the trial goes, the longer he gets to be free. After reading all this, it just makes me want him to be locked up this minute. He’s had so much freedom to harm people over the years. I hate it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Galbin said:

Guys, please note that when the SUN says "WARNING: Please be advised this post includes extremely disturbing material." be very careful. When this originally came out I unfortunately found out more than I wanted to, but it turns out there was even more which I found out yesterday. So be very careful.

I will likely have to deal with this stuff in my professional life when I qualify, but others will not.

Sending love and virtual hugs to anyone who has been triggered by this evil.

Thanks so much for the warning, I know a lot of us are doing our best to avoid reading the details, I'm sorry you had to read that.

[SassyPants]

Just now, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

JB is so power drunk and has been for decades that he thought he could easily win. He even thought he could tell the judge what to allow!

JB and M are the root of all the problems. They are beyond poor parental role models, and they’ve had 20 young minds to corrupt.

[nausicaa]

6 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Sure, she isn't going to fight him so there is no thrill.

I don't know. It does seem like a large factor in his sexual preferences, and possibly ability to feel any arousal, is inflicting pain on another person. I don't want to overspeculate, but it seems quite likely that has affected Anna at some point. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know people need a break but I kind of wish they would keep going today. Only because the longer the trial goes, the longer he gets to be free. After reading all this, it just makes me want him to be locked up this minute. He’s had so much freedom to harm people over the years. I hate it.

I agree.  If they are breaking for the jurors mental health I would understand that, but I don't know how it would be easier on them to drag it out.

If they are breaking for any other reason I don't get it.  The delays between discovery and arrest from the start are sickening, delays in the trial without good reason are inexcusable.

[FleeJanaFree]

I hope they take the unusual step of working through the weekend. I’m sure Jill just wants to get it over with instead of looming over her another 2 days. Hugs to her. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by FleeJanaFree
Typo

[Emma]

I also want to say thank you to free jinger. I have been a lurker since yuku days, when I was first escaping a religious abusive situation. Thank you for helping me learn that what was done to me was not acceptable, and thank you for keeping us updated on Josh’s trial without going into the horrific details.

Thank you.

 

[OHFL2009]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know people need a break but I kind of wish they would keep going today. Only because the longer the trial goes, the longer he gets to be free. After reading all this, it just makes me want him to be locked up this minute. He’s had so much freedom to harm people over the years. I hate it.

It also makes me feel bad for Jill. I'm sure even after real therapy and a step away from the cult, it is still incredibly difficult to testify against your brother, and relive the horrendous things he did to you and your sisters. I know trial timelines are fluid, but it seemed like people expected her to testify today, and if that's what she was expecting, I think it would be hard to mentally prepare yourself for this to be the day, and then end up having to wait an extra two and a half days.  

[molecule]

13 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Sounds like she has finally come to a realization that this is all true.  If so, my heart breaks for her because none of us want to believe that those we love are monsters.  I am sure she wanted to believe him but perhaps the evidence was finally just too strong and damning.

It must be particularly awful to come to this realization in public.

[karenb4729]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know people need a break but I kind of wish they would keep going today. 

I wish they would keep going so Jill can give her testimony and be able to get it over with.  

[hoipolloi]

20 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

Apparently this isn't unusual.  I heard on a podcast these sorts of offenders are usually offending for an average of 13 years before getting charged.

Yes. A very enlightening but disturbing podcast is CBC's Hunting Warhead. I highly recommend it but only if you can withstand the deep dive into the dark web  sites of CSAM & the perpetrators. The podcast's extended discussion of the dark web sites for CSAM, how they work, who runs them, and who is on them is what convinces me that there were no "accidents" whatsoever in what Josh did.  He knew exactly where to go to obtain what he wanted.

The podcast also focuses the primary criminal who ran the dark web CSAM site that LE took down. His abuse of younger children had started as a boy in early adolescence while growing up and just escalated into his adult years. He's now in prison for life.

[Emma]

I’ve been dealing with the stress of being a frontline healthcare worker and most mental health experts are recommending taking breaks, even small ones, throughout the day to get yourself grounded again. I have found that helpful. I take a few minutes to play solitaire on my phone just to take a breath from the work stress.

[sndral]

The previous thread closed before I was up (west coast) but @karenb4729 a typical trial schedule is:

Introductory Jury instructions & opening statements (limited to facts expected to be proved - cannot argue the law)

Prosecution presents their evidence (witnesses/exhibits,) defense may have exhibits marked/admitted as part of their cross-ex of  prosecution witnesses. 

Defense presents their evidence - if any, this is when Josh would testify if he intends to do so.

Prosecution presents rebuttal evidence - if any (limited to issues raised in defense case.)

Defense presents surrebuttal evidence - if any (limited to issues raised in prosecution’s rebuttal.)

Etc., until all the rebuttal is done.

Occasionally the defense will be allowed to put a witness on out of order during the prosecution’s case if, for example, the witness has a scheduling issue. Doesn’t appear to be the case here, though.

Once all the evidence is in & the parties have ‘rested’ each side presents their closing arguments - first the prosecution, then the defense, finally the prosecution has rebuttal to argue any points raised by the defense in their closing argument.

Then the Judge reads the jury instructions. Note, sometimes the Judge will read the instructions before argument, in my jurisdiction it depended on the Judge whether instructions were before or after argument, if instructions are read before argument there are also a couple of instructions read just before the jury retires to deliberate.

As an aside - couple of threads ago I speculated that there wouldn’t be a limiting instruction on the 414 evidence (prior bad acts) I was wrong, the Judge indicated he’d be giving an instruction re: that evidence when he ruled it was coming in.

Then you wait while the jury deliberates. Sometimes the jury will have questions or ask to have testimony read back. In my jurisdiction a copy of the instructions & the evidence were sent into the jury room, some jurisdictions only send the instructions & evidence in if the jury asks for them.

See also this https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/trial

Anyone know whether the defense is calling a computer expert as a witness? I ask because it may seem like the prosecution has a strong case right now, but a polished defense expert could change that.

Well played for the prosecution that the jury is going home for the weekend to digest the damning evidence that came in today & I can’t even imagine how things will be between Anna & Josh this weekend.

[HideousGreenShirt]

1 hour ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Excuse my ignorance here...is this different for civil action ie. Could a Duggar child sue their parents? Or is that the same for criminal and civil proceedings?

This is what I want to know also. Is there ANY case the sisters/victims could proceed with against their parents? As much as I doubt any of them would go through with it, is there a way of going after JB and M? 

Thank you to those of you updating this thread regularly. This case is making me furious and I hope Josh gets sentenced as harshly as possible. 

Gives a whole new meaning to "Duggar Time". 

[Mama Mia]

Is the Holt testimony being reported from anywhere but the Facebook group? No one else seems to be reporting any of it? It’s all been the forensic stuff.

[Galbin]

7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thanks so much for the warning, I know a lot of us are doing our best to avoid reading the details, I'm sorry you had to read that.

Awe, you are very sweet. Thanks. It wasn't as bad as April 2021 because before then I naively thought CSA was basically just Playboy but with kids. Now though I am less shocked and am helped by the fact that I truly believe Josh will be found guilty and do significant time in a federal US prison. Prison in the US is not humane like our prisons in Europe, so he really will get punished. 

[Lovebug]

Update: They’re not breaking yet. Testimony from investigators is resuming.

[Daisy]

34 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

One can only hope. 
 

I’m not sure what Anna expected she would hear throughout the trial, but I am certain this is a thousand times worse than anything she could have ever imagined.

I know it’s worse then I even imagined and I didn’t go into it with rose colored glasses on.  

34 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

Edited December 3, 2021 by Daisy
Double posted

[SillyDillys]

*sighs* I sympathize with Anna here. I went through something similar with my own dad. Realizing that your whole life is a lie is just a pain I'd never wish on anyone. 

That being said she needs to seek help and get her kids out of there. She has family that would take in and help her get settled. She has a way to make bg money by selling her story.

Jim Bob and Meech better watch their back.. many people are going to be out for blood once the story spreads of the holt testimony

 

[SongRed7]

20 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

know people need a break but I kind of wish they would keep going today. Only because the longer the trial goes, the longer he gets to be free. After reading all this, it just makes me want him to be locked up this minute. He’s had so much freedom to harm people over the years. I hate it.

I have to wonder how the weekend will be. I'm guessing Josh has to go back to the Rebers.  But now that they know so much more (presumably) I'm sure their discomfort level of having him in the house is increased exponentially.  Are the girls calling/texting each other.   Has Jinger reached out to anyone.   Speculation bus, but I feel like Jeremy would be the type who is following this all very closely online.  Honestly...I'm shocked Ben and Jessa haven't distanced themselves. I know they are in the thick of it, but I feel like Ben's family is more like the Holts.  Conservative Christians but not IBLP -- a bit more liberal and worldly. I feel like Ben's dad is more like Austin.  In fact, I thought Ben was maturing a bit....but he's falling in line seemingly.  And what about Jana in all this?  

I can't imagine meal times or any times.  I feel bad for the remaining minor children witnessing this. Almost 20 years later and even more children have to suffer. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by SongRed7