(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Sister Mozz said:

I promoted FW earlier, but I'm wondering about this, too. While everything else they have shared over the past few days tracked, they also said the Holts testified on the first day of the trial. It's in the first Master Post from Nov. 30th, update 9. I'm really curious why they keep talking about the Holts testifying when no one else is.

She did testify in pre-trial, could that have been what they were talking about?  They did get into the specifics of the meetings of when Josh confessed to her twice a few years apart and meetings with the Holts, Josh, and JB/Michelle as well as Josh and the Holts privately.

Biggest bombshell of that for me was that this had been going on since he was about 12-13 as when he confessed at 15 he said it had been going on for a few years.  Emily D Baker showed the legal docs from Pacer on her screen when she discussed it and the docs show Bobye's testimony.  

[onekidanddone]

17 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

And who could forget the Thank you, Michelle! video from VF's 2010 bay-bee conference.

CW: there is a LOT vomit-inducing stuff in the linked video but it's instructive to see just fucked up all of these people were and are.

Yes thank you michelle for enabling and protecting a sexual predator and for throwing your daughters to the wolves

[JermajestyDuggar]

The Sun is reporting that all the CSA material was during times Josh was at the car lot. Every single time. And that all of it was on the Linux side. I think my husband has a Linux side on his computer for work and reading about this is so weird. My husband uses Linux for work not CSA, but it’s still weird to think about someone using it to hide CSA. 

[Cheetah]

I'm going to try to summarize the FW updates from today in one spot.  She keeps editing her original post with new updates... right now there are 15 numbered updates plus several what she calls personal updates.  It's 11:09 am PST.  Hoping that this is enough of a summary - not direct quotes - to be okay with group rules.  

1. court will start at 8:45am and the poster mentions that she is a former fundie.

2. court starting a bit earlier than posted and looks like it's not going to go to the jury today given how much material is still left to go.

3.warning from judge that today will be even more graphic than yesterday and sensitive folks should leave.

also - Justin, Derrick, Austin, and the uncle are there but not Hillary, Claire, or Joy

4. jury is requesting more frequent breaks today, and they wanted to see some of the computer evidence again that proves something about Josh having access to the partition.

At least one juror has been crying.

5. More description of files downloaded.  

6.  Clarification from court that even though Josh is being charged with 1 count of downloading and 1 count of possession, they can see and show that he opened those files 100s of times between downloading them and the raid.

Anna has been staring at her feet.

7.  Both Holts on schedule for today and will show that there was ongoing abuse from Josh to his sisters in the home.  (Unclear who said this but I assume a prosecution lawyer was telling the jury what they will hear).

8. Bobye Holt says first confession was in 2002 and they met regularly through the end of 2004.  Two sisters fought back.  (again, not clear whether she was on the stand or whether this was the prosecutor saying what she was about to say).

9. Bobbye told Duggars to buy a bigger home.  JB didn't want to spend the $.  Sounds like this was a direct testimony.

Poster had to step out for a break but will continue to get updates from her family members.  Husband told her that Joy came in late.

10. There's a break in the Holt testimony to possibly reexamine a different witness.  

11.  Investigator back on the stand talking about geolocating Josh's iphone

12. More testimony about time stamps proving Josh was at the car lot and texted his wife he was alone at the same time he was downloading the CSAM.  Anna wipes away tears.

13. Talk about breaking early and resuming Monday. 

14. Testimony resumes of investigators

15.  timeline being presented of Josh in May 2019.

That's all for now.  

[theotherelise]

The adage goes: "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."

This seems like Gelfand during the cross examination of the forensic computer guy. From the Sun: "The reporter said Gelfand raised his voice at one point towards James Fottrell during questioning, alleging that it might have been because Fottrell wasn’t answering the way that Gelfand wanted him to."

[FleeJanaFree]

Update: Mrs holt hasn’t actually taken the stand today, but they played some recordings! From FW . Hope that clears up confusion. The recordings technically count as testimony. 

[smittykins]

8 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Yes thank you michelle for enabling and protecting a sexual predator and for throwing your daughters to the wolves

Ugh, DPIART.

And isn’t Lourdes Torres among those saying “Thank you, Michelle”?

Edited December 3, 2021 by smittykins

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, FleeJanaFree said:

Update: Mrs holt hasn’t actually taken the stand today, but they played some recordings! From FW . Hope that clears up confusion. The recordings technically count as testimony. 

Ok that makes more sense. 

[waltraute]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

Fuck you to JB - I hope your community turns its collective back on you and that you are shunned for the remainder of your pitiful existence, and  used as an example of "a phony parading around as a Godly man."

Sadly, he won't be. His circle of influence will be dramatically tightened within his own community, but he'll always have leghumpers and wannabes. No matter how damning the evidence, all he has to do is shout 'fake news' and he'll have people who will support him. I truly believe this is why Josh didn't take a deal, so that JB can forever and always fake innocence.

[FiveAcres]

Emily Baker did a youtube livestream Thursday night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHCEEFBU8HE

Around 29 minutes, she discussed the Duggar case and spends about 30 minutes on it. There is one thing that she said that I found interesting, but remember that IANAL. She said that the judge's ruling after the Monday evidentiary hearing, in which he found Bobye's evidence convincing and Jim Bob's evidence unconvincing has the effect of finding Josh guilty of child molestation. Baker used the terms "preponderance of evidence" which is a different standard than "beyond reasonable doubt." Baker seemed to think that this means that if a periodical were to call Josh Duggar a child molester, Duggar could not sue for defamation, because all the periodical would have to do is point to the judge's ruling and state that truth is a defense against a defamation suit. 

Baker also said that based on the evidence presented so far, she would be extremely surprised if Josh is not found guilty. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, waltraute said:

Sadly, he won't be. His circle of influence will be dramatically tightened within his own community, but he'll always have leghumpers and wannabes. No matter how damning the evidence, all he has to do is shout 'fake news' and he'll have people who will support him. I truly believe this is why Josh didn't take a deal, so that JB can forever and always fake innocence.

This is true. However I am glad that the mainstream public will know what a piece of shit he is.

[3KidsAndStopped]

A legal buff might be able to guide me on this, does a prosecution generally work a case by building foundations and then bringing in the most damning evidence last for maximum impact on the jury? The evidence so far has been extremely compelling. 

[FiveAcres]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The Sun is reporting that all the CSA material was during times Josh was at the car lot. Every single time. And that all of it was on the Linux side. I think my husband has a Linux side on his computer for work and reading about this is so weird. My husband uses Linux for work not CSA, but it’s still weird to think about someone using it to hide CSA. 

I am using Ubuntu Linux right now. I've been using it for over ten years. And, yes, it feels very weird. 

[Lovebug]

5 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

I'm going to try to summarize the FW updates from today in one spot.  She keeps editing her original post with new updates... right now there are 15 numbered updates plus several what she calls personal updates.  It's 11:09 am PST.  Hoping that this is enough of a summary - not direct quotes - to be okay with group rules.  

1. court will start at 8:45am and the poster mentions that she is a former fundie.

2. court starting a bit earlier than posted and looks like it's not going to go to the jury today given how much material is still left to go.

3.warning from judge that today will be even more graphic than yesterday and sensitive folks should leave.

also - Justin, Derrick, Austin, and the uncle are there but not Hillary, Claire, or Joy

4. jury is requesting more frequent breaks today, and they wanted to see some of the computer evidence again that proves something about Josh having access to the partition.

At least one juror has been crying.

5. More description of files downloaded.  

6.  Clarification from court that even though Josh is being charged with 1 count of downloading and 1 count of possession, they can see and show that he opened those files 100s of times between downloading them and the raid.

Anna has been staring at her feet.

7.  Both Holts on schedule for today and will show that there was ongoing abuse from Josh to his sisters in the home.  (Unclear who said this but I assume a prosecution lawyer was telling the jury what they will hear).

8. Bobye Holt says first confession was in 2002 and they met regularly through the end of 2004.  Two sisters fought back.  (again, not clear whether she was on the stand or whether this was the prosecutor saying what she was about to say).

9. Bobbye told Duggars to buy a bigger home.  JB didn't want to spend the $.  Sounds like this was a direct testimony.

Poster had to step out for a break but will continue to get updates from her family members.  Husband told her that Joy came in late.

10. There's a break in the Holt testimony to possibly reexamine a different witness.  

11.  Investigator back on the stand talking about geolocating Josh's iphone

12. More testimony about time stamps proving Josh was at the car lot and texted his wife he was alone at the same time he was downloading the CSAM.  Anna wipes away tears.

13. Talk about breaking early and resuming Monday. 

14. Testimony resumes of investigators

15.  timeline being presented of Josh in May 2019.

That's all for now.  

She also clarified the Holt testimony was a recording of Bobye, which was expanded on in opening statements. They have not yet, but will physically take the stand, although the recording does count as testimony.

[hoipolloi]

4 minutes ago, smittykins said:

And isn’t Lourdes Torres among those saying “Thank you, Michelle”?

She sure is. 

Re: Michelle. Considering what we're learning from the trial, the tribute video is even more revolting. You wonder how many of those admiring women and girls (who are now young women or close to it themselves) are now following the proceedings. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, FiveAcres said:

I am using Ubuntu Linux right now. I've been using it for over ten years. And, yes, it feels very weird. 

I haven’t asked my husband about Linux partitions. He gets really bothered by child abuse. So I would have to explain why I’m asking and it would just upset him to hear about the details of Josh’s case. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Emily Baker did a youtube livestream Thursday night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHCEEFBU8HE

Around 29 minutes, she discussed the Duggar case and spends about 30 minutes on it. There is one thing that she said that I found interesting, but remember that IANAL. She said that the judge's ruling after the Monday evidentiary hearing, in which he found Bobye's evidence convincing and Jim Bob's evidence unconvincing has the effect of finding Josh guilty of child molestation. Baker used the terms "preponderance of evidence" which is a different standard than "beyond reasonable doubt." Baker seemed to think that this means that if a periodical were to call Josh Duggar a child molester, Duggar could not sue for defamation, because all the periodical would have to do is point to the judge's ruling and state that truth is a defense against a defamation suit. 

Baker also said that based on the evidence presented so far, she would be extremely surprised if Josh is not found guilty. 

I watched that too.  I like her speaking style and love her info and expertise but holy fuck what a shitshow production wise.  I could barely stand it the way she kept going on about the echo and thinking things were on the screen but weren't up.  FFS if you can't get your shit together no need to do it live, record and edit.  Seriously, it was infuriating as I wanted to hear what she had to say but it was like chewing tin foil in parts.  I watched another of her vids and it was better so hopefully that was a one off.

[onekidanddone]

I know real life isn’t like L&O SVU where the perpetrator is taken off the streets immediately. I can’t fathom just what awful things he may have been doing between 2019 and now. Two freaking years walking along free to do what ever he pleases. That smug pile of entrails. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, onekidanddone said:

I know real life isn’t like L&O SVU where the perpetrator is taken off the streets immediately. I can’t fathom just what awful things he may have been doing between 2019 and now. Two freaking years walking along free to do what ever he pleases. That smug pile of entrails. 

And impregnating his wife YET AGAIN. 

[onekidanddone]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And impregnating his wife YET AGAIN. 

Twice right?

[SassyPants]

39 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Celebrating another fundy wedding today as Katie gets married.  And yep, the fact that people can forget that Gil is involved with that is proof they have much better handlers than the Duggars ever did.

Beliefs aside, Gil does not present as slimy or overtly narcissistic, above it all as JB - Just my opinion . JB has always made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. He thinks he doesn’t have to hide his creepiness.

[church_of_dog]

5 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I am using Ubuntu Linux right now. I've been using it for over ten years. And, yes, it feels very weird. 

I think lots of people use Ubuntu/Linux, just because it's open source and lots of people don't really want to support the big-name operating systems. 

And I'm sure even Tor browser is sometimes used for innocuous stuff or at least not-horrible stuff (I believe I first heard of it back when people were sneaking music downloads without paying, maybe 20 years ago)

 

[Cheetah]

FW update 16.  Despite what the defense said in their opening arguments, josh actually does have a Tor browser installed on his iPhone and they showed his iPhone history that bypassed Covenant Eyes.  

Clarification that others have mentioned about the Holts not actually having testified in person yet.   Court about to break again.   

[theotherelise]

2 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Twice right?

Just the once. Maryella was born a couple weeks after the raid and was conceived before the downloads. Madyson was conceived around February, so before the charges made.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Twice right?

She was already pregnant with Maryella when this took place in 2019.