(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[Freejin]

8 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I'm going to add the links for the sites updating to the sticky.    People, Anna Darling, and FW.  If you have any others make sure you @ me in the message so I'll see it.  I'm trying to keep up but it's going fast and I am working so may miss something.  

 

Sorry to be annoying but how do I find the sticky?

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Giraffe said:

@JermajestyDuggar I bet you're right - JB/Josh probably assumed there was no chance Bobye's testimony would be allowed or that Josh's prior abuse would be brought up. Neither had occurred to me but so I couldn't imagine why he was willing to take this to trial with all the worse-and-getting-worse things we're learning. 

Just imagine if the Holts hadn’t testified! We now know the Duggars completely toned down the whole thing on tv interviews. I believe the Holts. They have nothing to gain from lying about this. But the Duggars had everything to gain by lying. I believe they lied and lied and lied and the truth is finally coming out. And what’s sad is that this might not even be the full truth! There might be even more the Holts weren’t told about! 

[Antimony]

Just now, Melbelle said:

Can anyone clarify why the "official" media, Mr. NoCandles, is stating James Fottrell is still testifying when this Fundie Wonderland site is providing very different data?  Is FW definitely credible?  Also, the other NWA reporter, Anna Darling stated that the prosecution hadn't finished with him and the defense still had to cross examine.  So what's really going on?

I think it's just the time difference in how fast they could get to a device. No Candles is going to sit there except for official breaks but FW Person has been going in and out for mental health breaks. It's all the same information. More detailed minutes will be uploaded to Court Listener at the end of the day, likely, but they just will tell us the exact order of witnesses and how long their testimony lasted. 

Court started early this morning, and probably with Fottrell and then Bobye. Maybe FW didn't show up in time for Fottrell or didn't think it was interesting (because he also testified yesterday).

[3KidsAndStopped]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Type in as you would normally and then highlight the text you want in the spoiler.  Once it's highlighted click the little eye at the top of the text box (spoiler icon.)

I'm here now so if you do it and it shows I'll jump in immediately and fix the formatting.

Thanks I managed it, you are a super star keeping up with these threads today! Thank you x

Edited December 3, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped
Spelling

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

@JermajestyDuggar I bet you're right - JB/Josh probably assumed there was no chance Bobye's testimony would be allowed or that Josh's prior abuse would be brought up. Neither had occurred to me but so I couldn't imagine why he was willing to take this to trial with all the worse-and-getting-worse things we're learning. 

Or the narcissistic entitled white dudes rolled the dice, and lost.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

I put the handling of the abuse of his daughters and treatments or lack there of for all involved, squarely on JB’s shoulders.

Why don't you hold Michelle responsible as well?  She's their mother.

[FleeJanaFree]

Update: Investigator was re-examined to confirm Josh’s phone was at the car lot (geolocated) when the downloads occurred.

[BadMurphy]

5 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

@JermajestyDuggar I bet you're right - JB/Josh probably assumed there was no chance Bobye's testimony would be allowed or that Josh's prior abuse would be brought up. Neither had occurred to me but so I couldn't imagine why he was willing to take this to trial with all the worse-and-getting-worse things we're learning. 

This is extremely arrogant. And that arrogance is their entire identity so that is what makes me believe it.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy
Edited to remove double post - no content was changed

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, BadMurphy said:

This is extremely arrogant. And that arrogance is their entire identity so that is what makes me believe it.

Definitely. Males are basically taught to be arrogant from the start! They are the boss. They know more than women. They are the grand leaders of their homes. 

[Melbelle]

5 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I think it's just the time difference in how fast they could get to a device. No Candles is going to sit there except for official breaks but FW Person has been going in and out for mental health breaks. It's all the same information. More detailed minutes will be uploaded to Court Listener at the end of the day, likely, but they just will tell us the exact order of witnesses and how long their testimony lasted. 

Court started early this morning, and probably with Fottrell and then Bobye. Maybe FW didn't show up in time for Fottrell or didn't think it was interesting (because he also testified yesterday).

I look forward to getting that formal accounting.  McCandless posted 30ish minutes ago that there was a quick break but Fottrell was still on the stand.  Now, maybe he delayed his post, but if that was just posted as he stepped out during the break, then these FW updates don't seem correct.  

Edited to add that The Sun is also only relaying the Fottrell testimony at this point.  

Edited December 3, 2021 by Melbelle

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Freejin said:

Sorry to be annoying but how do I find the sticky?

It's the post at the top of every page - right now it has the reminders in a mod box but I'm going to add the links there.  

[Antimony]

Just now, Melbelle said:

I look forward to getting that formal accounting.  McCandless posted 30ish minutes ago that there was a quick break but Fottrell was still on the stand.  Now, maybe he delayed his post, but if that was just posted as he stepped out during the break, then these FW updates don't seem correct.  

Newer FW update seems to suggest it was Fottrell and then Bobye and then Fottrell again, to repeat his morning testimony, which is confusing but I guess possible? 

[imokit]

Apparently according to the sun, the computer was being used to search Reddit and Hollwood Gossip.  Was Josh looking up himself?  Or just going for the celeb gossip?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Thanks I managed it, you are a super star keeping up with these threads today! Thank you x

I don't see it, where did you post it?  I'm curious about your theory as well.

[SongRed7]

26 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think he's going to have to testify.  Its never a good situation when a defendant testifies

I can't imagine him doing this....He would get fried

 

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Why don't you hold Michelle responsible as well?  She's their mother.

She is guilty for being involved in and reinforcing the ideals of the patriarchal cult. I’m not sure if her decisions could outweigh JB’s. She is guilty as hell, too.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, imokit said:

Apparently according to the sun, the computer was being used to search Reddit and Hollwood Gossip.  Was Josh looking up himself?  Or just going for the celeb gossip?

Reddit could be anything if they didn't note the subs he browsed.  

[3KidsAndStopped]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't see it, where did you post it?  I'm curious about your theory as well.

Its on the previous page 😊

[Freejin]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's the post at the top of every page - right now it has the reminders in a mod box but I'm going to add the links there.  

Gotcha. I see it. I didn’t realize you hadn’t added the links yet. Thanks for keeping up with all of this today! It must be so overwhelming. 

[Xan]

Jim Bob has skated away from problems for years.  After all, he's white, male, and Christian.  He figured he would be able to lean on people and handle things.  He didn't think Josh's earlier episodes would be allowed at trial.  He didn't think the Holts would testify.  He figured they could just throw out the names of a couple of other people who worked at the car lot and there would be reasonable doubt.  Josh is a monster but Jim Bob has enabled him.

Frankly, I think Jim Bob really bought all the IBLP shit about females being responsible for creating desire in males.  If he didn't, he would have worried more about his own daughters.  What sort of hideous excuse for a father doesn't protect his own five year old child from a molesting sibling?  And just how cheap does one have to be to continue to keep putting seven or eight or more kids together in one bedroom just so you won't have debt?

I agree with @3KidsAndStopped, I think Josh is getting some pleasure out of this.  Also, he's chafed at his father's rules for years and he probably is happy that Daddy finally looks bad in all this.  Jim Bob collected a ton of money over exploiting his family.  He didn't seem to be sharing that money with them either.  Now, by way of Josh, that's all blown up in his face.  No TV channel will ever want them now.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, SassyPants said:

She is guilty for being involved in and reinforcing the ideals of the patriarchal cult. I’m not sure if her decisions could outweigh JB’s. She is guilty as hell, too.  

They wouldn't outweigh his in their cult (officially anyway - I've always felt Michelle has always worn the pants in that marriage in every way but literally) but she has an equal say legally.  Just because the women in this cult choose to surrender their agency doesn't let them off the hook for responsibility.  You can't waive that.

[Lovebug]

What I find most incredible is that Bobye Holt, who had countless meetings with the Duggars and Josh about what he was doing, willingly invited him to live in their home hoping to rekindle Josh’s relationship with her daughter. 
 

On what planet is this even a thought? She wanted her DAUGHTER to work out a relationship with a molester and violent person who was abusing his sisters.
 

I’m literally floored.

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Definitely. Males are basically taught to be arrogant from the start! They are the boss. They know more than women. They are the grand leaders of their homes. 

My own nearing 90 YO dad is very much of the “males are better world.” He purposely raised me to be tough and to take care of myself. I remember when my youngest brother was born my parents verbalized that they were glad it was another boy vs a girl because the world is better to boys vs girls. This was in the 60s- Clearly, notions are slow to change.

[FiveAcres]

11 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Below is just my theory on why Josh (or any person guilty of what he is accused of) may well know they will be found guilty but allow the case to trial anyway. Possibly triggering and upsetting. Will try and keep it as succinct as possible

  Hide contents

There is every possibility an offender relishes the trial. It relives the offence. Disgusting to think of but there is precedence of this behaviour in at least one very well known case in the UK. The offender may well enjoy the pain the trial caises people

 

Josh's chattiness with the investigators at the car lot lends support to this theory. "Look at me! I am so smart. I have been hiding this stuff and j**********ff to it for months and no one in my stupid family has a clue. Aren't I the clever one!"

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Below is just my theory on why Josh (or any person guilty of what he is accused of) may well know they will be found guilty but allow the case to trial anyway. Possibly triggering and upsetting. Will try and keep it as succinct as possible

  Hide contents

There is every possibility an offender relishes the trial. It relives the offence. Disgusting to think of but there is precedence of this behaviour in at least one very well known case in the UK. The offender may well enjoy the pain the trial caises people

 

Completely agree. 

Spoiler

From the material I believe he's a sadist and is getting off on the pain he's causing.  How panic over spending the next decade or so in prison doesn't override this I have no idea.