(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[hoipolloi]

Horrifying so far and more horror as the trial proceeds. Josh is a monster who should be imprisoned for a long, long time. 

People, including Josh, are presumed innocent until proven guilty and are entitled to a robust defense in all proceedings. Still, if Josh's defense team knew all this stuff beforehand, or even some of it, why didn't they advise him to plead guilty and perhaps get some consideration in sentencing? Or maybe they did but Jim Bob Josh refused & insisted on going forward with the not guilty plea?

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Giraffe said:

The height of arrogance is Josh allowing this to go to trial rather than take the plea deal. Each day is more damning than the last. 

I bet he thought a lot of this wasn’t going to be allowed. Like the Holts. If the Holts hadn’t been able to testify, we wouldn’t know a lot of important background info. And maybe he didn’t realize the computers register that you’ve looked at downloaded stuff hundreds of times. 

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Excuse my ignorance here...is this different for civil action ie. Could a Duggar child sue their parents? Or is that the same for criminal and civil proceedings?

You can best believe that since he had to pay out the Dillards, JB has his money well hidden and secure.

[3KidsAndStopped]

Just now, Giraffe said:

The height of arrogance is Josh allowing this to go to trial rather than take the plea deal. Each day is more damning than the last. 

I don't know how to do a content warning for what I want to say and don't want to cause upset but I ha e a theory on this

[Antimony]

1 minute ago, hoipolloi said:

Horrifying so far and more horror as the trial proceeds. Josh is a monster who should be imprisoned for a long, long time. 

People, including Josh, are presumed innocent until proven guilty and are entitled to a robust defense in all proceedings. Still, if Josh's defense team knew all this stuff beforehand, or even some of it, why didn't they advise him to plead guilty and perhaps get some consideration in sentencing? Or maybe they did but Jim Bob Josh refused & insisted on going forward with the not guilty plea?

They want the opportunity to file for an appeal. It's just that simple. 

Or, there's a 100% chance of conviction with a guilty plea and 96% chance with a trial. In some ways, if you put on game-theory-only goggles, it makes sense. Gotta think about it like a gambling man (or, for Jim Bob, a re-seller, a flipper, etc. Same mindset.)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

 

I'm going to add the links for the sites updating to the sticky.    People, Anna Darling, and FW.  If you have any others make sure you @ me in the message so I'll see it.  I'm trying to keep up but it's going fast and I am working so may miss something.  

 

[Speedy]

7 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Is anyone truly surprised that the Duggar home was sexually unhealthy? Anyone? Both JB and Josh have given off those vibes for years. 

I am definitely not shocked that the home was sexually unhealthy. I had however HOPED (but not necessarily thought) that Josh was scared enough of the consequences as a child to not abuse his sisters much more regularly and openly than was previously confirmed.I'm not surprised that it was wishful thinking on my part. This does make me truly believe that Joy and especially Jill are incredibly strong for sitting/testifying in that courtroom. No judgment to any of his other victims who are handling this situation differently. (Judgment for many other things absolutely. Not for how they handle their trauma on their own)

[theotherelise]

Maybe Bobye Holt was the OG letter writer? 

[Iburneddinner]

Anna's parents probably weren't given the whole truth back when the Duggars came around.....but they know now. Or at least they should make the effort to learn what a monster they married their daughter off to. There is absolutely no excuse for them not to help her now. If they don't help her or worse encourage her to stand by her husband, then they are almost the monsters that JB and Meech are. The M's are not going to be safe from the Duggar toxicity until they are away completely.  JB should not be around Anna or the kids anymore.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I don't know how to do a content warning for what I want to say and don't want to cause upset but I ha e a theory on this

Just put what you want to say in a spoiler and a brief but safe description of the contents above it.  

[Queen Of Hearts]

1 minute ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I don't know how to do a content warning for what I want to say and don't want to cause upset but I ha e a theory on this

I am curious about your theory because I have no clue why Josh would think he could beat this. Surely his lawyers warned him that they can access when files are viewed and such?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And maybe he didn’t realize the computers register that you’ve looked at downloaded stuff hundreds of times. 

@Buzzard wouldn't the times and dates it was accessed have been part of discovery?

[3KidsAndStopped]

Just now, Queen Of Hearts said:

I am curious about your theory because I have no clue why Josh would think he could beat this. Surely his lawyers warned him that they can access when files are viewed and such?

If you can tell me how to hide the content so people dont have to see it I will post my thoughts. I am not posting it openly though because it might be triggering

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Iburneddinner said:

Anna's parents probably weren't given the whole truth back when the Duggars came around.....but they know now. Or at least they should make the effort to learn what a monster they married their daughter off to. There is absolutely no excuse for them not to help her now. If they don't help her or worse encourage her to stand by her husband, then they are almost the monsters that JB and Meech are. The M's are not going to be safe from the Duggar toxicity until they are away completely.  JB should not be around Anna or the kids anymore.

They aren't going to help her but I am starting to think they were not given the whole story. 

[Cheetah]

8 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Can you and other FW members share the cliffs Notes of the updates for those of us who aren't members?

I think everything there so far has already been summarized between the first couple pages of this thread and the last 2-3 of the previous one.  She hasn't updated for 10-20 minutes now.  I'm about to go walk my dog but there are a few more people here who have been updating.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

@Buzzard wouldn't the times and dates it was accessed have been part of discovery?

He seems so dumb I bet he didn’t realize the extent of info they got from the computer. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Just put what you want to say in a spoiler and a brief but safe description of the contents above it.  

Sorry, how do I do a spoiler? So sorry for the stupid question

 

ETA I think I have found it sorry

Edited December 3, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Iburneddinner said:

Anna's parents probably weren't given the whole truth back when the Duggars came around.....but they know now. Or at least they should make the effort to learn what a monster they married their daughter off to. There is absolutely no excuse for them not to help her now. If they don't help her or worse encourage her to stand by her husband, then they are almost the monsters that JB and Meech are. The M's are not going to be safe from the Duggar toxicity until they are away completely.  JB should not be around Anna or the kids anymore.

They supported her staying with him when it came out he molested his sisters and another victim.  They had him at their home and family gatherings and Anna insta'd screenshots of the happy family all together.  Anna's parents are complete and utter shit people who are no better than her inlaws.

[Speedy]

Just now, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Sorry, how do I do a spoiler? So sorry for the stupid question

There's a little eye shaped button in the reply box when you start typing

[Melbelle]

Can anyone clarify why the "official" media, Mr. NoCandles, is stating James Fottrell is still testifying when this Fundie Wonderland site is providing very different data?  Is FW definitely credible?  Also, the other NWA reporter, Anna Darling stated that the prosecution hadn't finished with him and the defense still had to cross examine.  So what's really going on?

[Giraffe]

@JermajestyDuggar I bet you're right - JB/Josh probably assumed there was no chance Bobye's testimony would be allowed or that Josh's prior abuse would be brought up. Neither had occurred to me so I couldn't imagine why he was willing to take this to trial with all the worse-and-getting-worse things we're learning. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Giraffe
removing an extra word

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

If you can tell me how to hide the content so people dont have to see it I will post my thoughts. I am not posting it openly though because it might be triggering

Type in as you would normally and then highlight the text you want in the spoiler.  Once it's highlighted click the little eye at the top of the text box (spoiler icon.)

I'm here now so if you do it and it shows I'll jump in immediately and fix the formatting.

[SassyPants]

Just now, Speedy said:

I am definitely not shocked that the home was sexually unhealthy. I had however HOPED (but not necessarily thought) that Josh was scared enough of the consequences as a child to not abuse his sisters much more regularly and openly than was previously confirmed.I'm not surprised that it was wishful thinking on my part. This does make me truly believe that Joy and especially Jill are incredibly strong for sitting/testifying in that courtroom. No judgment to any of his other victims who are handling this situation differently. (Judgment for many other things absolutely. Not for how they handle their trauma on their own)

I’ve always been hyper suspicious of JB and his own, at times overt, behaviors. Since JB was in charge of the home I put the handling of the abuse of his daughters and treatments or lack there of for all involved, squarely on JB’s shoulders. Further, this was a man who sold his family to TLC ( the “learning” channel) as wholesome, fully knowing he had sexual abuse occurring in his home. Clearly, JB is also a dull tool in Jana’s greenhouse, right along side Justin. I wonder how much of JB’s “isolation” of his children was based on attempts to keep the abuse hidden? 

[FiveAcres]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Is anyone truly surprised that the Duggar home was sexually unhealthy? Anyone? Both JB and Josh have given off those vibes for years. I am not surprised, at all. Gothard, their patriarchal God, is a sexual perv. When it waddles and quacks, it’s a duck.

I've always felt that anyone who stayed in the cult after reading Gothard's teachings about CSA was either incredibly stupid or had something really, really wrong with them. (Why not both?) And I won't apologize to those who have family in the cult: the more you know about the cult the worse it gets. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Below is just my theory on why Josh (or any person guilty of what he is accused of) may well know they will be found guilty but allow the case to trial anyway. Possibly triggering and upsetting. Will try and keep it as succinct as possible

Spoiler

There is every possibility an offender relishes the trial. It relives the offence. Disgusting to think of but there is precedence of this behaviour in at least one very well known case in the UK. The offender may well enjoy the pain the trial caises people