(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

Update - Prosecution is presenting a time line of events, geocaching Josh’s iPhone at the lot and time stamping pictures taken, texts sent to Anna, partition install and CSAM downloads.

FW family member said Anna is crying listening to this.

How much do you want to bet she's more upset he lied to her about working late and looking at porn than she will ever be about the nature of his crime.  

But "At least I have a husband." right, Anna?  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m sure Josh has been telling Anna constantly that he didn’t do it. Someone else did it. Someone framed him. Whatever. But this is proof. How can he deny it now? I’m afraid she will still forgive him and stick by him. Even though she knows it’s true.

[justoneoftwo]

If he was violently attacking his sisters, does that make it more likely Anna was physically abused?

[theotherelise]

Anna cannot go back and change decisions she made in the past, but she can decide how to respond to this moment. Three of the kids are school age already. There are people who would help her. 

[imokit]

I wonder if Justin is going to have a wtf moment in the court room. 

Joy and Austin are there, and I can not imagine they are supporting Josh. 

Jill is on the witness list, and if she testifies it will almost certainly about what Josh did to his sisters when Justin was an infant.

Justin even if he came to initially support his brother, is likely going to have to watch his older sister's response to the trial.  He may well end up watching another sister testify to abuse.  With his age, the structure of the Duggar house (the fact that Jill and Jana did most of his parenting along with Jessa and Jinger), its highly likely that as a child he was closer to his sisters than he was to Josh.

This may be the making of him if he's there to support Josh.

Its also telling that of the Duggar kids and families, far more are there in opposition to Josh then supporting him.  Justin and his  group, possibly there to support Josh.  Derrick, Joy and Austin not.  I'm suspicious that the party line is too stay away, because JB doesn't want them being exposed to image breaking crap and bad ideas (and to keep Josh from tarnishing the brand more than JB did himself on Monday).  Which would mean that Justin being there could actually be a rebellion on his part.  Justin does not make sense as the picked representative to support Josh.  The age gap means they weren't close.  He's also not completely financially beholden to JB - the Spiveys have taken him under their wing and while they seem to be humpers they would also likely support Justin (and by extension their daughter) over JB.

I think he probably is there to support Josh, but I'm not completely sure (if there was there against Josh, then it puts his mugging for the camera yesterday in a different (but still idiotic) light.

But either way this may well have a big impact on him growing up.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

From the sun's updates, which I know are behind FW but I don't have access to that, James Fottrell, the Director of the Department of Justice for Child Exploitation testified on evidence that showed Pest texting and taking photos indicating he's at the car lot at the same CSA material was being downloaded onto the computer. 

I'm feeling much more confident about the outcome of this trial. I'm also trying to think how the family is spinning this, my best guess is this guy is leftist from the deep state trying to take down good conservative families. 

Can you send me a link to the Sun's updates so I can add it?  Please and thanks  

[EvilAthiest]

1 hour ago, Heidijoey said:

I hope hearing that their own father didn’t want to go into debt to buy a larger house in hopes that their brother will stop touching them puts the nail in the girls relationship with their parents. To know that your parents cared more about money than your safety has to be devastating

The victims likely figured that out years ago. 

[TuringMachine]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Can you send me a link to the Sun's updates so I can add it?  Please and thanks  

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/4174486/josh-duggar-trial-live-updates-child-pornography-arrest-verdict/

[Alisamer]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

If he was violently attacking his sisters, does that make it more likely Anna was physically abused?

Doubtful, IMO.

His sisters were children at the time, and fighting him off. Anna is an adult, who is obligated to be "joyfully available" to him at all times. Anna is no doubt suffering mentally and emotionally, but I doubt he'd hurt her physically. On purpose anyway.

[Giraffe]

Anna crying is the best news I've heard so far. 

ETA: no snark. I really am glad she's finally publicly showing an appropriate emotion. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Giraffe

[3KidsAndStopped]

The defence will have seen this evidence? I am shocked at how comprehensive and damning it is

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

According to The Sun (so get your salt shaker out), Anna finally had a reaction, and it was anger. 

To her email and phone number being shown on a piece of evidence, during the discussion of the password for the partition being the same as the one for their bank accounts.

That’s where she shows her anger at, but it’s not what she’s really angry about. For example, when siblings and relatives start feuding about who gets to keep grandmas tea pot, it’s not about the damn tea pot.

[Tatar-tot]

44 minutes ago, Speedy said:

I am definitely not shocked that the home was sexually unhealthy. I had however HOPED (but not necessarily thought) that Josh was scared enough of the consequences as a child to not abuse his sisters much more regularly and openly than was previously confirmed.I'm not surprised that it was wishful thinking on my part. This does make me truly believe that Joy and especially Jill are incredibly strong for sitting/testifying in that courtroom. No judgment to any of his other victims who are handling this situation differently. (Judgment for many other things absolutely. Not for how they handle their trauma on their own)

Remember Jim Bob humping Michele at mini golf place with one of the engaged couples.  He is humping away bragging  that the other couple is not married so they cannot publicly hump each other with their clothes on.  What a weirdo! 

[Fundie Bunny]

3 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

If he was violently attacking his sisters, does that make it more likely Anna was physically abused?

That's just a given at this point. Even if it hasn't been physical, I don't believe that man is capable of a relationship that isn't abusive

[Xan]

18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I could totally see Josh enjoying his parents and their stupidity getting publicly and legally drug through the mud. I do have some pity for the Duggar offspring. Look at the crap that was going on in that house, and the restrictions placed on any real way to get away from it, and then your parents adding kid after kid when they couldn’t and didn’t adequately care for the ones that they l ready had. And further, JB and M a getting rewarded for it in a public arena. 

Exactly this.  This is no way an excuse for Josh and he probably would be just as messed up if he had a different upbringing.  However, this was not the life he wanted.  He used to say he wanted to be a lawyer.  No way to do that with the homeschool education that he had.  I'm pretty sure that he didn't want to be responsible for a bunch of younger siblings.  He didn't want to sleep in a bedroom with no pillow and few blankets.  He didn't want to be timed so that he couldn't linger in the bathroom.  He didn't want to have every thing he did watched and reported.  He didn't want to marry someone like Anna.  That was just JB and M's "solution" to his problem.  He probably didn't want a whole pack of kids of his own.  Daddy and Mama foisted this religion of theirs onto him.  It all just made him so much worse.

He's happy that Jim Bob and Michelle will get blowback from this.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Xan

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, imokit said:

I wonder if Justin is going to have a wtf moment in the court room. 

Joy and Austin are there, and I can not imagine they are supporting Josh. 

Jill is on the witness list, and if she testifies it will almost certainly about what Josh did to his sisters when Justin was an infant.

Justin even if he came to initially support his brother, is likely going to have to watch his older sister's response to the trial.  He may well end up watching another sister testify to abuse.  With his age, the structure of the Duggar house (the fact that Jill and Jana did most of his parenting along with Jessa and Jinger), its highly likely that as a child he was closer to his sisters than he was to Josh.

This may be the making of him if he's there to support Josh.

Its also telling that of the Duggar kids and families, far more are there in opposition to Josh then supporting him.  Justin and his  group, possibly there to support Josh.  Derrick, Joy and Austin not.  I'm suspicious that the party line is too stay away, because JB doesn't want them being exposed to image breaking crap and bad ideas (and to keep Josh from tarnishing the brand more than JB did himself on Monday).  Which would mean that Justin being there could actually be a rebellion on his part.  Justin does not make sense as the picked representative to support Josh.  The age gap means they weren't close.  He's also not completely financially beholden to JB - the Spiveys have taken him under their wing and while they seem to be humpers they would also likely support Justin (and by extension their daughter) over JB.

I think he probably is there to support Josh, but I'm not completely sure (if there was there against Josh, then it puts his mugging for the camera yesterday in a different (but still idiotic) light.

But either way this may well have a big impact on him growing up.

My guess is Justin is there because his mother in law wanted to go as a Duggar adjacent fan girl.  

[Lovebug]

Update: they’re discussing dismissing for the day and resuming Monday. Apparently there is much more testimony to be heard, including expert witnesses, Jill, Jed, cellmate and the rest of the Holt’s - so there is still a lot more to get through.

It should be an interesting weekend for Anna. I’m curious to see the body language (holding hands?) when they leave, and if she’ll be with Josh on Monday.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lovebug
Clarity

[nausicaa]

10 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The sense of superiority within even more mainstream evangelicalism was stunning to me when I worked at the Christian school. 

I used to do SAT tutoring and would sometimes get religious homeschooled (and private schooled) kids who'd just bombed the test (to the shock of their parents who were positive Jr. would get a perfect score). 

And the kid would somehow think the first session was about him lecturing me or trying to convert me? Like, bud, you just got an 800 on the SAT, why don't you let me do the talking here?

[Tatar-tot]

14 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Update: more evidence shown from the investigator that Josh was alone at the car lot, was the only documented employee, AND texted Anna he was alone. Anna cried. 

I hope and pray Anna finally woke up.

[Mama Mia]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sure Josh has been telling Anna constantly that he didn’t do it. Someone else did it. Someone framed him. Whatever. But this is proof. How can he deny it now? I’m afraid she will still forgive him and stick by him. Even though she knows it’s true.

He might also have been telling her -and his parents- that he was -sadly- back to his porn watching ways, tried to hide it, he does like some rough stuff, or age-play, barely legal - but - shock- had no idea at what he was actually downloading! He was terrified and appalled…..didn’t know WHAT to do…tried to pretend it would go away….blah blah…no one would ever believe him, let’s blame it on someone else…

But that all falls apart when they find out the extent of the files and how many times they were opened.

 

 

[libgirl2]

7 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Doubtful, IMO.

His sisters were children at the time, and fighting him off. Anna is an adult, who is obligated to be "joyfully available" to him at all times. Anna is no doubt suffering mentally and emotionally, but I doubt he'd hurt her physically. On purpose anyway.

Sure, she isn't going to fight him so there is no thrill.

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Xan said:

Exactly this.  This is no way an excuse for Josh and he probably would be just as messed up if he had a different upbringing.  However, this was not the life he wanted.  He used to say he wanted to be a lawyer.  No way to do that with the homeschool education that he had.  I'm pretty sure that he didn't want to be responsible for a bunch of younger siblings.  He didn't want to sleep in a bedroom with no pillow and few blankets.  He didn't want to be timed so that he couldn't linger in the bathroom.  He didn't want to have every thing he did watched and reported.  He didn't want to marry someone like Anna.  That was just JB and M's "solution" to his problem.  He probably didn't want a whole pack of kids of his own.  Daddy and Mama foisted this religion of theirs onto him.  It all just made him so much worse.

He's happy that Jim Bob and Michelle will get blowback from this.

I thought the worst part about the upbringing is that JB and M did everything in their power to restrict or limit their kids’ future potential ability for getting out of the cult. Those kids were and still are in a cult. This is why I applaud The Dillards’ behaviors and decisions. They are taking the healthy steps to get out of the cult and successfully live in a healthy way, ITRW.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIVING IN A CONSERVATIVE, RELIGIOUS HOME, AND WALLOWING IN A CULT. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

18 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

 

FW family member said Anna is crying listening to this.

Sounds like she has finally come to a realization that this is all true.  If so, my heart breaks for her because none of us want to believe that those we love are monsters.  I am sure she wanted to believe him but perhaps the evidence was finally just too strong and damning.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

The defence will have seen this evidence? I am shocked at how comprehensive and damning it is

Yes, they had all this given to them in discovery so they could prepare and rebut if they could.  

[libgirl2]

I honestly do think JB and company thought they could throw around a few names about who else could have done this and it would be easy going.