(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[EmmieJ]

7 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

All good questions. I think JB would get physical with Josh. In JB’s eyes, Josh has screwed it all up, stopped the flow of easy money, trashed the name and most importantly, taken the control away from JB. Can I just say that M is the biggest coward of all.  When has she ever shied away from a media presence? Yet, where is she now? Hiding. That pisses me off.

I picture Michelle sitting in her bedroom, rocking back and forth and humming to herself, pretending none of this is happening.  Seriously, she may well have a nervous breakdown (over her loss of status as "mother of the year in fundieland!")  I really feel for those offspring still living at the TTH - it is probably pretty dreadful right now.

[FrumperedCat]

23 minutes ago, sndral said:

Anyone know whether the defense is calling a computer expert as a witness? I ask because it may seem like the prosecution has a strong case right now, but a polished defense expert could change that.

I believe they wanted to delay the trial till February 2022 for the reason of allowing a forensic specialist to examine the computer, but the motion to delay was denied. So I'm not sure they'll have one giving evidence e for defense.

Quote

"The defense has retained an independent computer forensic expert who must conduct a computer forensic examination of each of the devices at issue — a time-consuming process that requires review at a government facility for the one device the Government alleges contained child pornography," the motion reads. 

 

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-defense-team-moves-to-delay-child-pornography-trial/

Edited December 3, 2021 by FrumperedCat
Additional quote

[SolomonFundy]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm curious about a few things we'll probably never find out:

• Has Michelle ever broken through her numbness and had a real moment of pain over this?  Not over the brand, or the loss of money, but over failing her children and wishing she could do it differently.  Even a small breakdown based on genuine guilt and shame, of rage at her son?  Has she shed a tear out of compassion for his victims?  

When Josh was about 10, Michelle DID have a "breakdown". The infamous alleged 24-7 laundry situation. 

At this point, I really wonder if there was some other reason she felt compelled to stay up all hours of the night during that time. The laundry story never made much sense. Even assuming everyone in the household generated two full loads a week EACH, she shouldn't have needed to do more than 3-4 loads per day. Which is a lot, but it isn't "24-7" levels of laundry engagement.

[Giraffe]

Gothard was forced to resign due to sexual abuse. Duggars have spent years decades covering up & perpetrating heinous abuse. At what point will IBLP & fundamentalists wake up and accept abuse is a feature, not a bug? 

 

I know, I know, it won't happen for most of them but damn I really hope this causes a lot of people who've long supported all of it to see the evil for what it is and stop with their asinine excuses. 

[nicki12811]

If the FW report is true, I wonder if that will end up effecting Tyler staying in the home. 

[HarleyQuinn]

After reading all of this...I really, really hope the FBI, or a none relgious therapist spoke to Josh's daughters separately from their parents. I don't trust anyone in this cult.

[Giraffe]

Just now, nicki12811 said:

If the FW report is true, I wonder if that will end up effecting Tyler staying in the home. 

I've been wondering about this, too. 

[nelliebelle1197]

51 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

If he was violently attacking his sisters, does that make it more likely Anna was physically abused?

It's icky to speculate about abuse.

Edited December 3, 2021 by nelliebelle1197

[imokit]

5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yep.  I mean I'm for bringing back floggings in the public square for Anna and her in-laws so I no sympathy here for her having to deal with this publicly.  She chose it.

If she's left him when she first learned he was a predator she'd be sitting home with far fewer kids following the trial of her ex-husband online like the rest of us.  

How many would she have if she'd left when she first learned?  Was she pregnant with Meredith when the news hit or was she conceived after?  Anyone remember?

Meredith was a newborn when Josh was in Jesus jail post Ashley Madison.  She'd have been the youngest if Anna left when she found out her husband was cheating on her.  I'm not suggesting she should have left when the molestation news came out, because according to Anna herself, she choose to marry Josh knowing all that.🤮  At that point the only new bit (for Anna) was the cheating.

Edited December 3, 2021 by imokit
accidentally posted itself twice.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, SolomonFundy said:

When Josh was about 10, Michelle DID have a "breakdown". The infamous alleged 24-7 laundry situation. 

At this point, I really wonder if there was some other reason she felt compelled to stay up all hours of the night during that time. The laundry story never made much sense. Even assuming everyone in the household generated two full loads a week EACH, she shouldn't have needed to do more than 3-4 loads per day. Which is a lot, but it isn't "24-7" levels of laundry engagement.

Oh I’m sure it wasn't just the laundry. It’s never just one thing. The laundry was probably just the straw that broke the camels back. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[Lovebug]

Regarding the Holts - I just went back and read. The FW person said the court noted “both Holts to testify today”, and the testimony would be, “long, graphic and detailed” as they would be describing years of abuse of the sisters. They then went on to talk about some of Bobye’s details.
 

Not sure why they would lie, or why no one else is reporting it, but they’ve been spot on with everything else. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lovebug

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Below is just my theory on why Josh (or any person guilty of what he is accused of) may well know they will be found guilty but allow the case to trial anyway. Possibly triggering and upsetting. Will try and keep it as succinct as possible

  Hide contents

There is every possibility an offender relishes the trial. It relives the offence. Disgusting to think of but there is precedence of this behaviour in at least one very well known case in the UK. The offender may well enjoy the pain the trial caises people

 

This has definitely crossed my mind. In fact, not much else makes sense. He's very sick, and in more ways than one.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, Giraffe said:

Gothard was forced to resign due to sexual abuse. Duggars have spent years decades covering up & perpetrating heinous abuse. At what point will IBLP & fundamentalists wake up and accept abuse is a feature, not a bug? 

 

I know, I know, it won't happen for most of them but damn I really hope this causes a lot of people who've long supported all of it to see the evil for what it is and stop with their asinine excuses. 

And Gil is on the board. Boy have the Bateses gone very quiet about the Duggars and this case. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, SolomonFundy said:

When Josh was about 10, Michelle DID have a "breakdown". The infamous alleged 24-7 laundry situation. 

At this point, I really wonder if there was some other reason she felt compelled to stay up all hours of the night during that time. The laundry story never made much sense. Even assuming everyone in the household generated two full loads a week EACH, she shouldn't have needed to do more than 3-4 loads per day. Which is a lot, but it isn't "24-7" levels of laundry engagement.

It was about more than laundry, but just being overwhelmed with all those kids in a cramped house with no room or money would bring anyone to their knees.  I'd be having an hourly breakdown if it were me.  

Ten seems super young for this stuff to have been an issue then.

[BernRul]

I'm also skeptical about FW. The Sun has so far been the only one with up to date photos and live updates. They have only reported the forensic stuff.

[Giraffe]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

And Gil is on the board. Boy have the Bateses gone very quiet about the Duggars and this case. 

Oh yeah! I noticed they've been suspiciously quiet but forgot he was still involved. 

[hoipolloi]

5 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Seriously, she may well have a nervous breakdown (over her loss of status as "mother of the year in fundieland!") 

And who could forget the Thank you, Michelle! video from VF's 2010 bay-bee conference.

CW: there is a LOT vomit-inducing stuff in the linked video but it's instructive to see just fucked up all of these people were and are.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Giraffe said:

Oh yeah! I noticed they've been suspiciously quiet but forgot he was still involved. 

Celebrating another fundy wedding today as Katie gets married.  And yep, the fact that people can forget that Gil is involved with that is proof they have much better handlers than the Duggars ever did.

[Lista]

I keep hearing about gothard. I met that prick when I was 7.  He was youngish with really curly short hair. He tried talking my dad into that lifestyle.  Luckily my dad was a drink & wasn’t giving up his booze for that.  I’m pretty sure it was bill. I see pictures now & it rings a bell.  
 

my dad did mention the lifestyle seemed neat.  Now, I am thankful he didn’t go that direction. Instead I got a stepmom who was a JW. Just as bad.  

[AprilQuilt]

35 minutes ago, EvilAthiest said:

The victims likely figured that out years ago. 

I'm not so sure about this.

Jill did. That's why she's distanced herself and JB has shut her out. She and Derick realised they and all the kids had been played. I suspect also that Jeremy and Austin - if they got the full picture - have reflected back to their wives that the sexual abuse they endured and the way it was handled wasn't OK, but neither Joy nor Jinger have 100% accepted the wider implication of this. I can't begin to guess what Jessa thinks or feels. I suspect she has repressed and minimised gigantically.

This trial makes it very very clear that JB chose not to act in his daughters' interests over years. It wasn't a sin of omission or ignorance, he knew what was happening in his home almost systemically, and he chose to take no steps to protect any of the children, which includes getting Josh proper treatment. The girls will hear that other trusted adults, the Holts were aware of this, thought it was very wrong, told the Duggars as much and were ignored. They will understand now that what was going on was not acceptable to their religious community, but that this community for the most part chose to turn a blind eye, or did not see, and that JB and Michelle rejected intervention and support. They will know now that people could have helped them, wanted to help them, but their parents chose not to listen.

They will also see their abuse reframed. I think even if they accept that Josh was habitually abusing them for years, they might have still hung onto the narrative that he was a curious teenage boy making mistakes, and that once their parents found out they took steps to punish and prevent. Now they know that what he did to them wasn't an isolated thing, cured by healthy heterosexual marriage. They are going to be forced to regard their abuse in the context of his choice as an adult to download and repeatedly view the most horrific child sexual abuse material. It wasn't a misguided boy who did this to them, it was a sexual deviant who's carried on much the same ever since.

I think, essentially, that all the girls hung onto some kind of safety-net narrative. It might be different for each of them but I bet it includes the assumption that their parents didn't know. Right up til now I think that they had some kind of vestigial trust in their parents, that they would only have tried to protect them, that they would never have allowed this to go on. And now all the girls have seen Jim Bob throw them under the bus and say he doesn't recall the specifics of their abuse. They have seen what Josh is and what he does; they have seen how different their childhood was to the way they need to imagine it was. 

I really think that this will be very distressing to them all, in that it destroys all the defensive assumptions they've held onto since childhood. That's one 'safe place' they don't have any more. They might have always had a bit of gut knowledge about what's now coming out, but I suspect that they haven't ever scrutinised it over the years and it was easier for them to minimise it. A lot of this will feel like new news to them, and it will take a long time to get past.

[theotherelise]

McCandless (KNWA Fox 24) is saying they're on lunch recess now until 1:30. Currently defense is cross examining the computer forensics guy and they will keep at that in the afternoon.

 

[Sister Mozz]

6 minutes ago, BernRul said:

I'm also skeptical about FW. The Sun has so far been the only one with up to date photos and live updates. They have only reported the forensic stuff.

I promoted FW earlier, but I'm wondering about this, too. While everything else they have shared over the past few days tracked, they also said the Holts testified on the first day of the trial. It's in the first Master Post from Nov. 30th, update 9. I'm really curious why they keep talking about the Holts testifying when no one else is.

[Alisamer]

I think the more info that comes out, the more interesting it would be to go back and re-watch the show. Hopefully someone will do a well-made documentary on it. I suspect that some of the "odd" things abouot the Duggars will make more sense in retrospect.

- big single-sex rooms, with no privacy for anyone

- kids sleeping in their clothing, instead of nightgowns or pajamas

- the buddy system... protecting the younger kids as well as raising them

I'm sure there are more little things that will look a bit, well, icky in light of the new info coming out.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Celebrating another fundy wedding today as Katie gets married.  And yep, the fact that people can forget that Gil is involved with that is proof they have much better handlers than the Duggars ever did.

The Bateses sure loved riding the Duggar coattails before the scandals. Gil is just as big a scammy grifter as JB. Once they got their own show and the Duggars’ first scandal broke, Gil and kelly distanced themselves like they were texting the Duggars, “new phone. Who dis?”

[justoneoftwo]

2 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

McCandless (KNWA Fox 24) is saying they're on lunch recess now until 1:30. Currently defense is cross examining the computer forensics guy and they will keep at that in the afternoon.

 

It certainly seems FW is not accurate.