(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[JermajestyDuggar]

The Bateses are posting happy pretty wedding themed photos as this trial reveals some of the most heinous info. It just really bothers me. They can become famous thanks to the Duggars and make lots of money due to the fame they first found on the Duggars’ show. And now Kelly and Gil can just pretend like their families weren’t best friends? Are they going to pretend like they aren’t in the same fucking cult? They will never publicly denounce Josh’s behavior? I’m sure the Bateses know all about Josh’s behavior. And probably have for many years. And that’s probably why Zach was friends with JD and not Josh even though he’s closer in age to Josh than JD. Katie’s big fancy wedding would look more like a cheap parking lot wedding with a used wedding dress and home perms if they had never gotten their first fame from the Duggars. 

[FiveAcres]

4 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I hope so too but I agree that they probably have their own skeletons.  Like a lot of families do.  One thing, they are more media savvy and have a better sense of what flies in the real world (and learn from mistakes) so they are a lot more careful with what they put out there.   Never got the sense that the Duggars learned anything.  I mean, I was appalled at the Megyn Kelly interview.  I know they thought it was damage control but I thought it was the worst idea to go on TV and downplay the molestations like they did. 

Well, in the long run it certainly came back to bite them in the ass. If they hadn't pimped their daughters to the Megyn Kelly interview, it wouldn't have given so much credence to Bobye Holt's evidence, while hitting Jim Bob's credibility. 

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I’ve wondered this in the past too. I have six kids and while we have a big washer/dryer it’s never been overwhelming or even a lot of work honestly. Obviously it was a metaphor for a bigger sense of overwhelm, but it makes sense that it could be when first warning signs that the promised perfect family life wasn’t coming to pass. 
 

She said in the show that she used to sing this song over and over: “The joy of the Lord is my strength, the joy of the Lord is my strength. He heals the broken hearted and they cry no more, He heals the broken hearted and they cry no more. He heals the broken hearted and they cry no more, the joy of the Lord is my strength. He gives me living water and I thirst no more”

That is kind of sad. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Joy Anna attended court today after lunch. 

[nokidsmom]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I think they'd have been shielding their deviant son even without the show or fame.  

Oh I agree they would have done that no matter what.   But with TV fame / money the stakes were higher in their view....more public, potential loss of money, respect, all the perks that came with that.  I think that even now JB is more concerned about his loss of money, respect, credibility etc. as opposed to the fact he raised a messed up son who abused his other children in an unspeakable way and failed to effectively help and protect them.  Epic parental fail.

Edited December 3, 2021 by nokidsmom

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, Laura2730 said:

Yep Lourdes Torres, Krstn Clark (then Baird) from Girl Defined with her mom Heidi Baird, Elissa Baird, Rebekah Baird and Suzanna Baird. Also present is Doug Phillip’s daughters: Faith, Jubilee, Virginia and his wife Beal. Also present are jeannie and Christin Spradling- basically the women in the video were all members of Phillip’s Boerne Christian Assembly.

The Above Rubies lady Nancy Campbell was there too. The whole underbelly of fundiedom is entangled. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Oh I agree they would have done that no matter what.   But with TV fame / money the stakes were higher in their view....more public, potential loss of money, respect, all the perks that came with that.  I think that even now JB is more concerned about his loss of money, respect, credibility etc. as opposed to the fact he raised a messed up son who abused his other children in an unspeakable way.  

It also makes me wonder if more of the kids would have left the tiny house of horrors soon after they were 18 if they had never gotten the tv specials or shows. I’m betting more would have left the cult at 18. Which makes me sad to think about. 

[Shrubbery]

1 minute ago, FiveAcres said:

Well, in the long run it certainly came back to bite them in the ass. If they hadn't pimped their daughters to the Megyn Kelly interview, it wouldn't have given so much credence to Bobye Holt's evidence, while hitting Jim Bob's credibility. 

To be fair to them, who could have known that Jesus!Bootcamp wouldn’t work and Joshley would perpetrate yet another simultaneously stupid and disgusting, sexually violent crime, and that his previous misdeeds would be relevant? Totally unforeseeable, I tell you.

[3KidsAndStopped]

The defense continued their cross examination of Fottrell. They are referring to Caleb Williams, they seem to be really sticking to this line. Something to do with ebay shipping labels.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, 3KidsAndStopped said:

The defense continued their cross examination of Fottrell. They are referring to Caleb Williams, they seem to be really sticking to this line. Something to do with ebay shipping labels.

They are going to cling to Caleb like a dingleberry on Bigfoot’s ass. It’s all they got. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

It also makes me wonder if more of the kids would have left the tiny house of horrors soon after they were 18 if they had never gotten the tv specials or shows. I’m betting more would have left the cult at 18. Which makes me sad to think about. 

They'd have been shooed out of the house the way the elder Bates kids were married off fast to make room and have one less mouth to feed.

Also, without the TLC money the older kids would have had to have worked, like the Bates kids.  It takes money to insulate people and keep a tribe of SAHD and work for Daddy sons.

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, Bobology said:

I have skipped several pages to comment now because I don't know when I can catch up.

You guys remember when Jessa got married and Jinger stood up to talk (normal folks would call it a toast) at the reception? Jinger said something to the effect that Jessa had been there for her regarding all the stuff she, Jinger, had gone through, and Jinger seemed to get a little teary (or outright wept, I can't remember.) At the time I judged her, but knowing what we know, and particularly after Bobye's testimony, Jinger really had gone through a lot. I'm closing in on 70 but still learning how to apply kindness and not judge too quickly or harshly... or at all.

It makes me think of the time Jeremy and Ben interviewed her for her conversion story and she talked about how much of a sinner she was. I remember at the time thinking how sad it was that she was parroting a fundie line. But it is heartbreaking to know now these facts and Gothard’s teaching of victim blaming. There are so many layers of abuse here. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by neuroticcat

[3KidsAndStopped]

Couple of bits gleaned from here and there:

Anna reported to storm out of courtroom after learning password on the partition was the same as family instagram account

Joyanna gave Anna a hug on entering court (and coffee)

Defence asking Fottrell about thumb drives and a programme called Rufus

 

ETA is it just me or has every cross examination been very Caleb thumb drive orientated

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped

[formergothardite]

Has any other place reported the recording of Bobye Holt? Unless I missed it I didn’t see that on the Sun updates. 

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

Gill’s having a portrait of Nathan Bedford Forest his home and talking about his daughter’s purity is pretty damn creepy. As is his having cameras in his kids bedrooms. Isn’t he still a big wig in the IBLP? That alone sets off major alarm bells. 

Wut. He has cameras in their bedrooms? That screams either completely inappropriate father or father fearful of this kind of abuse. Either way it is disturbing and, for the older kids, weird invasion of privacy. The Bates teach/imbibed all the same garbage. They present as more likable but that is it. Many of the older kids seem to have distanced from Gothard and fundamentalism, but it really reveals nothing about actual beliefs.

[marmalade]

Just now, formergothardite said:

Has any other place reported the recording of Bobye Holt? Unless I missed it I didn’t see that on the Sun updates. 

Still cross examining Fortrell. I don't think Bobye (or Jill) will testify until Monday, at the earliest.

In other news, Jeremiah's 6 seat plane flew to TN this morning. I wonder if Boobchelle were aboard?

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

JB is a sack of shit, who thinks he's *the* shit - I truly don't think he has any empathy for anyone. He found a lifestyle that allows him, the nerdy goody-two-shoes Xtian that married the hot cheerleader, to be the alpha male he was destined to be. Michelle was a teenager in love with her new bf and with her new religion. She made him her standard, probably doesn't think she's been spiritually or emotionally or sexually taken advantage of, and convinced herself (with his support of course) that this is her calling in life.

But I think of how happy they must have been as young parents with "just" 4-5 kids. When any of the Duggars post childhood pics on instagram, I think of how has toddlers J*sh and JD and Jana must've played together, and how four-year-old J*sh might've doted on baby-Jessa the same way that Spurge and Henry do on Ivy and Fern; I can't imagine what it must be like for Jill and Jessa to have those childhood memories and also the memories of being taken advantage of and assaulted by the same brother. I think of how rose-colored the glasses must be for these young fundie parents at their first-born golden-boy, and imagine Michelle obsessing over tiny-J*sh like Erin Paine does with Carson; Michelle is probably desperate to still think of her boy that way even after allllll the times he's thrown his mistakes in her face. It all went so, so wrong. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, neuroticcat said:

Wut. He has cameras in their bedrooms? That screams either completely inappropriate father or father fearful of this kind of abuse. Either way it is disturbing and, for the older kids, weird invasion of privacy. The Bates teach/imbibed all the same garbage. They present as more likable but that is it. Many of the older kids seem to have distanced from Gothard and fundamentalism, but it really reveals nothing about actual beliefs.

I wonder when he installed them? Did he do it because he feared what was happening over at the Duggars? Did he know about it then?

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, lizzybee said:

Just in my feelings today over all the years I wasted following these people like they were some kind of gold standard. Defended them with everything I had. Meanwhile all this horror lurked behind the curtain. I genuinely lost myself for a long time trying to be part of this evil world. When Taylor Swift re-released Red it was the first time for me because I wouldn't let myself listen to it when it came out the first time and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what I took from myself. What a joke. Meanwhile, Josh was over here allowing himself to do THIS. Fuck them all. Fuck the patriarchy indeed. 

I am here with you. Also feeling supremely grateful to have left it behind.

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, IrishCarrie said:

I'm also In the Fundie Wonderland private Facebook group and I guess what's absolutely knocked me for six from the Holt testimony is that Josh was molesting his sisters FOR YEARS. Bobbie Holt says these were not singular events with time in between; there was systemic and habitual ongoing sexual abuse in the Duggar home. Josh was REGULARLY abusing his sisters, often, over a three year period.

So much for the "it was one-off incidents, it was over clothes, it was a young boy being curious" BULLSHIT that JimBob and Michelle propagated. Bobbye Holt said that not just one, but TWO sisters physically fought back against Josh during two incidents of sexual abuse. So there was a culture of violent sexual assault in their home and the parents gaslit the victims into thinking (and going on Meghan Kelly and saying) that it was no big deal????!!!!!!!

I'm so angry there are no words.

I am confused.  Neither the Sun nor the Reddit site seem to say anything about Bobbye Holt testifying today so far.  It’s all about the computer experts and the timeline, etc.

I can’t seem to get in to the Facebook Fundie Wonderland.  If any members want to invite me, please PM me for my facebook name. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Defence asking Fottrell about thumb drives and a programme called Rufus

Rufus is an application used to create bootable executables.

[nokidsmom]

9 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Well, in the long run it certainly came back to bite them in the ass. If they hadn't pimped their daughters to the Megyn Kelly interview, it wouldn't have given so much credence to Bobye Holt's evidence, while hitting Jim Bob's credibility. 

At the time, I just thought it was a very bad idea to go on national TV and downplay something so serious.   JB and J'chelle clearly had no idea of how the broader public would view child molestation and here are parents downplaying what happened in their own home AND getting their victimized daughters to also downplay it.  I thought the whole thing very unwise but at the very least the daughters should have been kept out of it, if JB / J'chelle were so insistent on doing it.  

[3KidsAndStopped]

Seems to be going down the route of whether files could.have been downloaded remotely from what I can gather. Also reiterating not all Tor use is sinister.

Has said Tor used since 2017 and no CSAM detected between then and the downloaded materials. Which is a weird argument IMO but OK.

Edited December 3, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Rufus is an application used to create bootable executables.

Rufus bless. Is there also a program called Beansie?

[hoipolloi]

4 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

The Above Rubies lady Nancy Campbell was there too. The whole underbelly of fundiedom is entangled. 

And so were Meredith Alexander and her then-fiance, Stephen Hammer, who later clerked for SCOTUS CJ John "Stench" Roberts. They drove from VA to TX, crammed in a van with Meredith's family, to attend the Bay-Bee Conference. 

Looks like Meredith's mother, Joy, has scrubbed that little trip from her blog but thanks to the wonders of screen capture, I have photos of them with such immortal captions as: "The highlight for most of our family was getting to hear Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar (parents of nineteen children with the TV show, '19 Kids and Counting') speak in a few of the sessions."