(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 39: It's Never Leg Humping to Support Victims - Applaud Strength

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Can everyone stop posting for a couple of hours? I absolutely need to get some work done around here and this thread ain't doing jack for my (lack of) motivation. My house is a wreck, my laundry is overflowing...come on guys, cut a girl a break!

I'M JOKING Y'ALL

Get in line-

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

This goes back to the comment that Josh's behavior couldn't have fed into Michelle's laundry room breakdown because he was too young. Spoilered because unpleasant content and speculation.

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Josh may not have started his sexual abuse before the age of 10, but he could have been acting out already and been physically and verbally abusive towards his younger siblings. A while ago, I read a magazine article about a young girl in an upper middle class (presumably white) family. She was, I think, the eldest and her parents discovered her trying to harm her brother when she was around five and her brother was a baby or toddler. The harm would have been significant and her parents sought professional help. The professionals determined that the usual development of empathy had not occurred in the young girl. The article discussed techniques the professionals were using to teach her to at least simulate empathy and correct behavior to keep her from being a risk to society. This was a well written article in Atlantic Magazine or a similar periodical.

I hate the "bad seed" theory of child development, but am willing to entertain it as an explanation for Josh and his perversions.

 

This is a very plausible theory to me.  I didn't mean to imply he had nothing to do with her breakdown just that I thought 10 was probably to young for his CSA to have started.  Also that it's legit to have a breakdown with too many kids and not enough room or money even if everything else was just grand.  

[SongRed7]

41 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I think Derick Dillard is showing he's more of a man than any of the Duggar spawn. Even with what he and Jill have been through with JB, the harm that Josh did to Jill, he's still enough of what I would call a "real" Christian to offer support to his sister-in-law. 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that a lot of his views aren't problematic, particularly with LGBTQA+ and "pro-life" issues, but reaching out to the wife of his wife's abuser says a lot about him. 

Which brings up a really good point....as a society it seems we've gotten to a point where many are: Unless you think 100% like me, you are against me."  But the reality is, basic decent people can have a range of strong opinions on topics we agree/or strongly disagree on...but we can be bigger people to see the decency and good qualities and admire people for certain things while still disagreeing on others. 

It would be a boring world if we were all 100% lockstep on things.  I have friends and family who I love who aren't a$$holes but who have way different opinions than I do on really important BIG  topics. But they aren't jerks and we respectfully disagree where we disagree but enjoy each other's presence in other ways. 

I think this week we've seen the Derick and Austin are really good, decent guys who love their wives-- while not being perfect and having some strong opinions on things we don't necessarily like or agree with. 

[VixenToast]

21 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

The Sun's reporting is really disappointing today.  Where is WOACB going to steal her scoops from if the Sun doesn't speed up it's updates?

She’s apparently going live at 3 after being quiet all day (on YouTube, I don’t Instagram).

How much you wanna bet she’ll latch onto the recording of Bobye reported by FW?

Edited December 3, 2021 by VixenToast
Adding more

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

20 minutes ago, Thorns said:

Imagine Anna coming home to her baby and young kids after being in court all day, having to hear about her husband watching truly horrific videos, and now knowing fully what those videos contained? How can she ever look at him without feeling sick?

How can she look at her baby and little girls and actually hope/pray he gets off?

 

[SongRed7]

18 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

The Sun's reporting is really disappointing today. 

I have a speculation....I wonder if the Sun reporter had some sort of secret listening device that was going to another outside reporter so they were reporting in real time and got caught.  Hence the silence until "breaks" today when the "Sun reporter in the hearing" can then give the update. 

 

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

She is guilty for being involved in and reinforcing the ideals of the patriarchal cult. I’m not sure if her decisions could outweigh JB’s. She is guilty as hell, too.  

I think Michelle is in the same position as Anna. She’s abused and an abuser, so it makes it complicated but it doesn’t make her less culpable. She should have stepped up the minute she learned about Josh. Afterward, she had more access to outside help and reality than many others in the cult. At any time, she could have gone to a TLC person and said, “help me.” Second, I know Gothard’s umbrella of authority garbage would not have empowered her to make decisions and out rule Jim Bob , but even the fundiest of fundies tell submissive that they don’t have to obey their husband if he commands them to sin against God. So somewhere in there she decided this was OK at some level, and, most significantly in my opinion, kept it up all along. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

I wonder if these quiet spots are when there is complex, compelling evidence. It is also easier evidence to listen to today, yesterdays was horrific and I am sure people were clamouring to take a breather-the judge may also have been more tolerant of frequent leavers due to the material. Today's evidence seems strong but not distressing in comparison-it has been focused on confirming Josh's whereabouts.

[HarleyQuinn]

Please for the love of God don't give WOACB attention. Just read your updates here or the Sun.

 

[onekidanddone]

How could all of the abuse been going on without someone  on the TLC crew catching on to it?

[TuringMachine]

Just now, onekidanddone said:

How could all of the abuse been going on without someone  on the TLC crew catching on to it?

I think TLC has made it clear they just straight up don't give a shit

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

 She’s abused and an abuser

I'll agree with the second but not the first.  There is no evidence whatsoever that she and JB aren't completely on the same page or that he's forcing any of this on her.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[onekidanddone]

1 minute ago, TuringMachine said:

I think TLC has made it clear they just straight up don't give a shit

Quite true. The brought back 19KAC just wish a new name and continued to give JimBlob a public  platform and kept the cash flow going 

[xenobia]

A bit OT, but still: 

I get that not everyone likes WOACB. I'm not a big fan either, she's too much tabloid for my taste. I've listened to a few episodes. Some okay, some not. But she's totally allowed to have a youtube channel with whatever she wants. Even if it was/is just reading quotes from The Sun. I don't see the point of constantly bringing up how bad she is. In my book that's just like middle school bullying. Just ignore things you don't like online as long as it's not harmful to others. Quality shines through in the end, you don't have to tell others what's good and what's not. 

Just my 5 cents that not everyone will agree with, and probably downvote, but I'm OK with that. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

How could all of the abuse been going on without someone  on the TLC crew catching on to it?

Jacob Roloff was abused by a TLC producer so who's to say they'd have stopped it.  Also, they weren't filed 24/7/365 and most child abuse is never witnessed by outsiders.  That's why it's so hard to put these monsters away.

[neuroticcat]

It is so awful that these parents were given a platform. I want TLC to acknowledge something here and own responsibility. How many people were introduced to this garbage through them? How many wives thought they needed to be constantly available, normalizing women as sexual objects? How many little girls and boys grew up taking that in? How many children and adults were taught their own feelings weren’t reliable such that instead of being horrified by abuse and protecting the vulnerable they thought it was some sort of spiritual problem to be taken less seriously than, say, wearing pants or watching Tv? I have no doubt all people involved were themselves abused and likely brainwashed. People have done all sorts of horrific things and thought they were “normal,” but the film crew came from outside, were with the, day in and day out and should have spoken out.

[slp]

32 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

Just in my feelings today over all the years I wasted following these people like they were some kind of gold standard. Defended them with everything I had. Meanwhile all this horror lurked behind the curtain. I genuinely lost myself for a long time trying to be part of this evil world. When Taylor Swift re-released Red it was the first time for me because I wouldn't let myself listen to it when it came out the first time and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what I took from myself. What a joke. Meanwhile, Josh was over here allowing himself to do THIS. Fuck them all. Fuck the patriarchy indeed. 

Same. (Hugs) I’m in deconstruction now and this is proving I am right to turn away. 

[Giraffe]

 

6 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

How could all of the abuse been going on without someone  on the TLC crew catching on to it?

TLC is exploitative AF. No one knows they didn’t know of abuse. One of the Roloff boys was (allegedly, because I don’t believe there was an arrest) molested by one of the TLC producers. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Giraffe

[HarleyQuinn]

1 minute ago, xenobia said:

A bit OT, but still: 

I get that not everyone likes WOACB. I'm not a big fan either, she's too much tabloid for my taste. I've listened to a few episodes. Some okay, some not. But she's totally allowed to have a youtube channel with whatever she wants. Even if it was/is just reading quotes from The Sun. I don't see the point of constantly bringing up how bad she is. In my book that's just like middle school bullying. Just ignore things you don't like online as long as it's not harmful to others. Quality shines through in the end, you don't have to tell others what's good and what's not. 

Just my 5 cents that not everyone will agree with, and probably downvote, but I'm OK with that. 

 

I think it's worth bringing up because she's fabricated stories and used fake sources in the past. There's an entire reddit devoted to her bullshit. It needs to be brought up because someone unfamiliar with her could click on, listen, and contribute to her ability to continue to spread misinformation. 

That's how I feel, anyways.

[AprilQuilt]

Just now, onekidanddone said:

How could all of the abuse been going on without someone  on the TLC crew catching on to it?

Short answer, abuse hides in plain sight all the time.

Slightly longer answer: the TLC crew - or more saliently the production company at that point - would have been very motivated to create a show that would sell, and therefore if they got an inkling of something 'off', would sweep it under the rug. The show is a total fabrication anyway, on many more superficial levels: they wanted an 'old-fashioned wholesome family' and they fabricated one in the specials complete with down-home voiceover about barn-raisin's and drinkin' out of the hose. Fact was never going to get in the way.

I know it's cynical but I think it's totally possible that people in the production team did feel uneasy and were shut down because the show was bigger than them.

[imokit]

Amy's just said that she and her mum didn't know the whole story, which is why they went along with the show and were close to the family.

Not sure I'm buying it fully, they had to know Josh did something bad.  Josh got sent away for fucks sake. 

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

It is so awful that these parents were given a platform. I want TLC to acknowledge something here and own responsibility. How many people were introduced to this garbage through them? How many wives thought they needed to be constantly available, normalizing women as sexual objects? How many little girls and boys grew up taking that in? How many children and adults were taught their own feelings weren’t reliable such that instead of being horrified by abuse and protecting the vulnerable they thought it was some sort of spiritual problem to be taken less seriously than, say, wearing pants or watching Tv? I have no doubt all people involved were themselves abused and likely brainwashed. People have done all sorts of horrific things and thought they were “normal,” but the film crew came from outside, were with the, day in and day out and should have spoken out.

100% agree. JB sold it and TLC bought it hook, line and sinker. Learning channel my ass.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, xenobia said:

A bit OT, but still: 

I get that not everyone likes WOACB. I'm not a big fan either, she's too much tabloid for my taste. I've listened to a few episodes. Some okay, some not. But she's totally allowed to have a youtube channel with whatever she wants. Even if it was/is just reading quotes from The Sun. I don't see the point of constantly bringing up how bad she is. In my book that's just like middle school bullying. Just ignore things you don't like online as long as it's not harmful to others. Quality shines through in the end, you don't have to tell others what's good and what's not. 

Just my 5 cents that not everyone will agree with, and probably downvote, but I'm OK with that. 

 

It isn't bullying to have a critical opinion about someone who creates content for the public.  She also has a history of presenting gossip as fact so she's not some neutral entity that people like or dislike based on personality.  

Whenever her channel is brought up of course people will warn others to get their news from more reliable places.  If she doesn't like that she could be a more reliable and less shitty person.  

But no one has ever implied she isn't allowed to have a channel and do with it whatever she wants.  Of course she can, and others can slag it because it sucks.  Fair for everyone!

[Travelfan]

I just had a thought…probably WAY off here, but any chance JB & M started doing the show as a way to try to stop Josh??  Like ok here’s several more adults and they have video cameras in our house, that will deter him.  Probably not too likely, but just a thought I had. 

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I bet they were shitting their pants when Josh and Anna moved to DC. 

Maybe that’s why Michelle cried in that episode. I remember watching that episode before any of this came out, and thinking: good for Josh and Anna! Because clearly JB and Michelle didn’t want them to go but it seemed like Josh sprung it on them during filming time so they couldn’t refuse him. But it makes a whole lot more sense now.