John and Chelsy 9: Title Update: Baby Madeline Is Here 10 Weeks Early

[fundiefan]

I honestly can't fathom a mother choosing to ignore Covid when they have a newborn. I know every person is different, and we know Chelsy comes from a family of deniers, but my brain is entirely incapable of a mother not choosing every precaution,

My niece had her son on 8/11. They live about 60 miles from the rest of the family. We are taking turns going to see them/meet the baby  -- my turn finally arrives next Saturday, his 1 month birthday. Grandparents, aunts & uncles took priority, now as a great aunt, I get to go. 

It's very scheduled and methodical. No more than one household at a time. Masks if you're not vaccinated. All kids have to wear masks since they can't be vaccinated. No kissing the little man's face. 

As new parents, they are taking every single precaution suggested by their medical team - OB & pediatrician alike. She had a C-section because little man wouldn't turn, so she is recovering from surgery - which lowers immunity. Even though she is vaccinated, precautions are still recommended. 

Anyway, they have a lot of rules surrounding their newborn (full term) son and anyone wanting to meet him must follow their rules. 

My nephew & his wife & their kids will not be meeting their new nephew/cousin any time soon. They are deniers, anti-mask, anti-vax tRumpers. When my niece told them they had to wear masks, niece-in-law said "we don't wear masks in our family especially not my kids". It hurt my niece a lot, and she cried over their politics taking precedence over family, but eventually she was able to accept that it's their loss & she is not going to feel bad because they're being assholes. (Side note: the "we don't wear masks" family managed to wear them when they took a vacation to Disney World last December, but we all need to forget that in light of their "rights" to not be told what to do....unless it's something they want badly enough. That's why it hurt my niece so badly; Disney World was enough motive, but not meeting their new nephew/cousin). 

Anyway. That's a lot of rambling to say I am entirely incapable of even imagining being a parent of a newborn and not taking every imaginable precaution for the safety of my newborn child - obsessively so for a premie.

Edited September 5, 2021 by fundiefan

[browngrl]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Madeline was probably better off in the hospital for a few more weeks.

I'm not sure about this. Hospitals are where people with severe infection go and while everyone tries to be as meticulous as possible with infection control there is always the possibility of nosocomial/health care related infection. The risk is very small and well worth it if the child is sick but if they can go home, they should go home. I'm assuming of course, that there are no medical concerns that have not yet been addressed by either clearing up or by giving  the parents instructions and follow up. 

The Maxwell's are very insular so they are not out in the community much and I suspect most if not all of them are secretly vaccinated. I suspect that the doctors and nurses in the hospital have already talked to Chelsy and John about the vaccine and I think they are vaccinated as well but keeping it on the down low because of Chelsy's family. 

Chelsy's family is the wild card in the mix. However they are galavanting about the country and likely won't be back to visit the baby until their tour is done by which time the child will be older and at a similar risk as her similar aged cousins. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, browngrl said:

I'm not sure about this. Hospitals are where people with severe infection go and while everyone tries to be as meticulous as possible with infection control there is always the possibility of nosocomial/health care related infection. The risk is very small and well worth it if the child is sick but if they can go home, they should go home. I'm assuming of course, that there are no medical concerns that have not yet been addressed by either clearing up or by giving  the parents instructions and follow up. 

The Maxwell's are very insular so they are not out in the community much and I suspect most if not all of them are secretly vaccinated. I suspect that the doctors and nurses in the hospital have already talked to Chelsy and John about the vaccine and I think they are vaccinated as well but keeping it on the down low because of Chelsy's family. 

Chelsy's family is the wild card in the mix. However they are galavanting about the country and likely won't be back to visit the baby until their tour is done by which time the child will be older and at a similar risk as her similar aged cousins. 

I have to disagree. The anti-vaccine “plandemic” Bontragers only have the tour scheduled until the end of September. I am betting they will be visiting the miracle baby Madeline while she’s still very young and vulnerable.

[Hane]

@MomJeans, my youngest nephew was in the NICU for about two weeks due to a pneumothorax (hole in his lung from taking his first deep breath) even though he was a hefty 9 lb. 5 oz. He couldn’t be fed by mouth for several days, so I bought my sister a breast pump. She was released from the hospital long before he was, so, as stressful as that was, she was able to go home and sleep through the night and recover from her C section. She pumped and saved milk for him.

I completely agree with Fed is Best. Many very small babies have a hard time suckling, and even bigger ones often need time to learn to do it effectively.

[PennySycamore]

One thing breast/chestfeeding/nursing parents need is adequate lactation support.  Many of the problems that they have with nursing can be overcome with good lactation support.  Unfortunately, that often does not happen in the hospital.  

Yes, fed is best, but the organization Fed is Best was started by a woman on the board of Nestle.  They do not care one wit if babies receive breastmilk.  How an infant is fed may not make much difference in developed countries,  but artificial feeding kills babies in the developing world.  <rant over>

PennyS -boycotting Nestle for 40+ years.  

 

[KnittingOwl]

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

PennyS -boycotting Nestle for 40+ years.  

Good for you. I didn’t have that luxury. I could boycott formula companies or not feed my children. One guess what I picked. 
 

The stress I had over formula feeding my first because I never had adequate milk production contributed significantly to PPD. Statements like yours don’t help anyone going through the same decision. I WANTED to breastfeed. I was physically unable. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

3 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

One thing breast/chestfeeding/nursing parents need is adequate lactation support.  Many of the problems that they have with nursing can be overcome with good lactation support.  Unfortunately, that often does not happen in the hospital.  

Yes, fed is best, but the organization Fed is Best was started by a woman on the board of Nestle.  They do not care one wit if babies receive breastmilk.  How an infant is fed may not make much difference in developed countries,  but artificial feeding kills babies in the developing world.  <rant over>

PennyS -boycotting Nestle for 40+ years.  

I didn't know Fed is Best is an organization, but I do know as an internet slogan to end the stigma against women who aren't able to produce milk or produce milk adequately. I read an article on a feminist site where the woman tried everything to produce milk and still couldn't and felt shame and was shamed by people around her. Personally I would given up long before she did. A friend of mine apologized on social media for giving up on breatfeeding after struggling so much with it. Her child was over 6 months old and she couldn't do it anymore. I don't think she owes anyone an explanation.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

I bottle fed all 4 of mine from the get go, none of them even had a sniff of breast milk. Im sure I had plenty of breast milk and its easier than all the faff with bottles and stuff, but meh it wasnt for me. 

Funnily enough my dear friend, mother of 6, breast fed all of hers and yet, they were always ill with some bug they had picked up, constant illness, yet my 4 are as hale and hearty as you like, just an observation.

[Jana814]

I know several people who never even tried to breastfeed their children. One of them works at the best hospital in our area. She had access to anything she needed & as an employee of the hospital she could use them for either free or at a reduced cost but she knew breast feeding wasn’t for her. I don’t think she was ever shamed for it. 
 

One of my cousins couldn’t breast feed her children.  Her first cousin who breast fed her kids for a very long time (like over a year each) tried to shame her for her decision. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Jana814

[Grandma D]

When babies are born early human milk is like medicine and any good hospital will make sure the family knows that. formula Just doesn't have everything a baby needs to finish developing what they missed in utero for the brain and eyes etc. So more and more there is donor milk available for babies who need it. Most woman produce milk. Its very rare they can't but there isn't the support or correct information needed to help make it the norm. Breastfeeding might not be for every woman but it is right for most babies with a few exceptions. The benefits are long term and subtle. One that I recently had come up was a morbidly obese woman who really wants to BF but may have trouble with a full supply so she needs to know that but her milk will contain leptin which may prevent her daughter from the same issues as her mom who was not breastfed. Especiwlly during covid babies need the antibodies mom makes for protection. The milk changes daily to meet the babies needs. Formula just does not have that ability. Sometimes this info is enough to help a mom work through difficult challenges to go on to be successful. If not babies will usually do well on formula and grow to be strong and healthy but I've seen lots who just can't tolerate formula and are unhappy and unwell to begin their life. Support and knowledge are key but also accepting what a mom chooses is most important. If a mom chooses not to, its her choice and its important she should not feel guilty so she can enjoy her baby.

[WannabeHistorian]

7 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

One thing breast/chestfeeding/nursing parents need is adequate lactation support.  Many of the problems that they have with nursing can be overcome with good lactation support.  Unfortunately, that often does not happen in the hospital.  

Yes, fed is best, but the organization Fed is Best was started by a woman on the board of Nestle.  They do not care one wit if babies receive breastmilk.  How an infant is fed may not make much difference in developed countries,  but artificial feeding kills babies in the developing world.  <rant over>

PennyS -boycotting Nestle for 40+ years.  

 

Babies died because of Nestle's aggressive marketing campaign that targeted expecting mothers with free samples of formula. These samples were just enough to cause the mother's milk supply to dry up. Impoverished families were forced to stretch the formula by adding less powder than recommended to each bottle. This practice slowly starved the babies, unbeknownst to the parents. Lack of clean water compounded this issue by making the already starving babies sick. It was slimy corporate tactics, which included deliberate miseducation, and poverty that killed those babies. Formula had nothing to do with it. 

You know what happened before baby formula was invented? A lot of babies died. 

[Bethy]

4 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I read an article on a feminist site where the woman tried everything to produce milk and still couldn't and felt shame and was shamed by people around her. Personally I would given up long before she did.

I think I may have read the same article - about 6-7 years ago? I know it was before my daughter was born because the woman described being tasked with feeding (20 minutes per side) every other hour, and on the "off" hours, being told to pump for 20 minutes, which meant that she literally never got to sleep more than half an hour at a time. I was horrified at the very thought when I read the article and then, when my daughter was born and my milk was slow to come in, that's the very schedule I was put on. It was harrowing. Thankfully I only had to do it for a couple of days before my milk came in and my daughter was able to get full feeds and I could have 2-3 hour breaks to sleep during the night but those few days of never being "allowed" to sleep for even one hour at a time (and the shame I felt when I slept through the alarm and missed a feed or pump session) were grueling.

[fundiefan]

9 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

One thing breast/chestfeeding/nursing parents need is adequate lactation support.  Many of the problems that they have with nursing can be overcome with good lactation support.  Unfortunately, that often does not happen in the hospital.  

Yes, fed is best, but the organization Fed is Best was started by a woman on the board of Nestle.  They do not care one wit if babies receive breastmilk.  How an infant is fed may not make much difference in developed countries,  but artificial feeding kills babies in the developing world.  <rant over>

PennyS -boycotting Nestle for 40+ years.  

 

I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, who cares who started the fed is best movement? The same as most nursing moms don't really care about boob nazis. 

Each woman is responsible for feeding her child. How she does that is no one's damn business. 

I watched my niece-in-law struggle with pain & fear & self doubt & feelings of failure, while also battling PPD, because her baby was not getting enough nutrition nursing. She went through 2 lactation specialists and still "failed".  Thank Zeus by about six weeks someone with enough compassion and common sense and no agenda sat down with her, heard her questions, answered her questions, and helped her understand the goal of feeding a baby - so it lives & grows up. Not to wear a badge for nursing for 3 years or "my baby only had breast milk for 12 months". No, the bragging rights she was to be working for were "my baby is growing", "my baby is healthy", "my baby is nourished" and "I can take care of my baby without wanting to die". 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My body didn’t make enough milk with my first because it thought I was still pregnant. I had retained placenta for two months after birth. Thankfully I didn’t get an infection. But there are many reasons why a person may not produce enough milk for their baby. Thank goodness for formula! Because I couldn’t produce enough for my baby. I made plenty with my second child because I didn’t have retained placenta. My doctor made very sure of that. I nursed him for 2.5 years. 

[Hane]

I have a friend who simply didn’t lactate. She jumped through all kinds of hoops with lactation consultants, and nada. Then she learned that her mother didn’t lactate either.

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

I have a friend who simply didn’t lactate. She jumped through all kinds of hoops with lactation consultants, and nada. Then she learned that her mother didn’t lactate either.

That’s what happened with the person I posted about above. Her mother didn’t lactate & neither did she or her sister. 

[usmcmom]

While I think breastfeeding mothers have more support than I did thirty years ago, there is still room for improvement. 
 

The push to breastfeed can be damaging to young mothers who want to do “the right thing” and become afraid to use formula for supplemental feeds. It is dangerous for babies and wreaks havoc with a new mom’s confidence and healing. 
 

Just watching my daughter struggle was heartbreaking. She received conflicting advice from different lactation consultants and was beyond exhausted and felt defeated. She has found a really good routine with breastfeeding now, but did supplement with formula in the beginning. 

In her second week home from the hospital, I booked two private lactation consultants to come to her home and  she also was able to get into a free clinic.  I kept wondering, though “what about young moms who do not have these resources?” 

A mother should not have to feel guilty for feeding her baby formula, nor should she have to justify it in any way. 

[kpmom]

Regarding the picture of Maddy on Titus 2...please tell me they are not already holding her hands down like they did the boys to "train" them.

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, kpmom said:

Regarding the picture of Maddy on Titus 2...please tell me they are not already holding her hands down like they did the boys to "train" them.

Looks like it. They were holding the boys hands down very young, so why would Madeline be any different? Now that she is home and out of the hospital (Ie: someone else's care/rules) they get to resume being the parents they were trained to be. 

Stupid ass bow, restrained hands and all. 

And that announcement from Steve was exactly as cold and emotionless as I'd expect from him. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:21 AM, Ana said:

Where does she focus on getting pregnant? On the blog she literally just says how good it feels to be at home as a family of five. 

I meant, that she is not rushing to get pregnant again so quickly. I know her blog says she is happy to be home. However, she and John did move very quick and Chelsy's dream has been to have a house filled with babies. All I meant is that I hope that she doesn't rush to getting pregnant again. Two out of three of her pregnancies had complications. So far, Elliot is the only one where she didn't have to be rushed to the hospital. Axton she had complications with and Madeline came early. I just meant I hope that she and John take a break and focus on the children they have now, not getting pregnant again. 

[GreenBeans]

7 hours ago, Bethy said:

I think I may have read the same article - about 6-7 years ago? I know it was before my daughter was born because the woman described being tasked with feeding (20 minutes per side) every other hour, and on the "off" hours, being told to pump for 20 minutes, which meant that she literally never got to sleep more than half an hour at a time. I was horrified at the very thought when I read the article and then, when my daughter was born and my milk was slow to come in, that's the very schedule I was put on. It was harrowing. Thankfully I only had to do it for a couple of days before my milk came in and my daughter was able to get full feeds and I could have 2-3 hour breaks to sleep during the night but those few days of never being "allowed" to sleep for even one hour at a time (and the shame I felt when I slept through the alarm and missed a feed or pump session) were grueling.

Yes, it’s ridiculous. They told me to pump at least 12 times per 24 hours during the first days after birth while baby boy was in surveillance - add to that the pumping time, actual feeding, cleaning and preparing the pumping equipment etc., you end up at like 30mins in between. It just wasn’t doable. It’s the worst I’ve felt in my life, both physically (horrible pain after c-section, with a fever and infection, iv antibiotics, taking 15mins to even get up out of bed in horrible pain, no help or visitors allowed due to Covid-19) and mentally (baby boy on a different ward, feeling broken, insecure, unable to care for baby boy, feeling bad for not managing this crazy pumping schedule and only wanting to SLEEP, but at the same time feeling awful and selfish and guilty for even thinking about MY needs…).

In the end baby boy was fed on pumped breast milk and thriving, because things got better once I got the hang of it and a great midwife helped me to reduce the pressure once I was home from hospital. But during those first grueling days, I was so, SO glad that formula existed.

Edited September 6, 2021 by GreenBeans
I have absolutely no idea how that sleeping unicorn made it into my post, but I’ll just leave it there. :D

[FluffySnowball]

59 minutes ago, kpmom said:

Regarding the picture of Maddy on Titus 2...please tell me they are not already holding her hands down like they did the boys to "train" them.

Wait, what? What do they do to their poor children and where can I read up about it? A quick search on Chelsey’s blog hasn’t provided me with any results. 

Anoher question: are her grandparents Mennonites? 

[ksuheather]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:14 AM, ElizaB said:

So while the Bonts are horrible about Covid the Maxwells (while not great) are not horrible. They do wear masks and did do some form of social distancing. So while they aren't great, they aren't complete Covid deniers either. I am hoping that the Maxwell influence can keep her somewhat safe. 

The Maxwells don't mask in public. I ran into Steve and Terri at the grocery store this week and neither had masks on. 😕

[fundiefan]

45 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

Wait, what? What do they do to their poor children and where can I read up about it? A quick search on Chelsey’s blog hasn’t provided me with any results. 

Anoher question: are her grandparents Mennonites? 

Chelsy's parents were Amish/Mennonite & both sets of grandparents still are. 

Read Chelsy's blog about Axton's first birthday, it's where she indicates the hand restraint BS when discussing the fact Axton didn't want to mess with his smash cake and all that "training" paid off, blah, blah, blah. And if you pay attention to pictures, particularly with Axton since he was the only one at the time, you'll see his hands held down pretty consistently. 

 

[sableduck]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:43 AM, browngrl said:

I'm not sure about this. Hospitals are where people with severe infection go and while everyone tries to be as meticulous as possible with infection control there is always the possibility of nosocomial/health care related infection. The risk is very small and well worth it if the child is sick but if they can go home, they should go home. I'm assuming of course, that there are no medical concerns that have not yet been addressed by either clearing up or by giving  the parents instructions and follow up. 

The Maxwell's are very insular so they are not out in the community much and I suspect most if not all of them are secretly vaccinated. I suspect that the doctors and nurses in the hospital have already talked to Chelsy and John about the vaccine and I think they are vaccinated as well but keeping it on the down low because of Chelsy's family. 

Chelsy's family is the wild card in the mix. However they are galavanting about the country and likely won't be back to visit the baby until their tour is done by which time the child will be older and at a similar risk as her similar aged cousins. 

Our local NICU is filled with newborns-6 week old babies with RSV.  While they’re kept separated from preemies, RSV is rampant for whatever reason right now.  If a baby is stable he or she is probably better off at home.