John and Chelsy 9: Title Update: Baby Madeline Is Here 10 Weeks Early

[JermajestyDuggar]

I have to add, the “umbrella of protection” obviously doesn’t work. If it did, Chelsy’s father would have had her go to the dentist regularly under his authority. How many times do these people need to see examples of the “umbrella” not working to Chuck the belief into the garbage?

15 minutes ago, petrushka said:

At least she doesn't always gloss over her difficulties. Hope she's in better shape the next time she posts. 

She was raised to plaster a smile on her face, never complain, and gloss over things. You could tell it was hard for her to write because of that. Her blogging has always been a “ministry” and her parents drilled ministry into the Bon kids at an early age. She needs to be a happy face for Christ. I’m sure all 10 Bon kids have issues with bottled up feelings they are never allowed to feel let alone express. I guess the Bons and Maxwells are alike in that way. 

[anachronistic]

I wonder how she’s paying for all of this, because Scamaritan doesn’t cover pre existing conditions, does it? What about dental? They either had to go buy private insurance, get Medicare/caid or empty their savings. 
 

I had a friend who had a serious heart problem that wasn’t caught until they got health insurance in their twenties. The doctors asked if they’d been born in an undeveloped country; nope, just had neglectful parents, just like Chelsy. The Bontragers better pony up for some of those dental bills as they were definitely their fault. And, as another poster noted, hearts and teeth and directly connected, you need to keep both healthy.

I’m assuming the surgery can’t happen unless she’s vaccinated but who knows. They are relaxing so many COVID restrictions, maybe they’re making exceptions to this too in some hospitals. The Maxwells will never tell. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I just read a little on Chelsy’s condition. The most common cause is rheumatic fever. Which is what happens when strep throat goes untreated. I would bet all my money Chelsy had strep throat when she was young and her parents didn’t treat it with antibiotics like recommended and developed into rheumatic fever. I guess this condition is much rarer than it used to be because people tend to treat strep throat these days. Although it is still more common in undeveloped countries where there may be less access to antibiotics. This is the type of thing that happens when you are anti medicine like the Bontragers. 

[MaryatHome]

1 hour ago, petrushka said:

That's a lot to contend with in less than a year.  If Anna and Mary were away at ABC, I wonder who/if anyone stepped in to help.  She usually gives credit to the Bontragers and other Maxwells when they help out with the kids. 

I wonder what John is doing to support the family.  Does he still have the irrigation business?  Still dabbling in real estate?  Her remarks about how many hats he wears, expanding his areas of business and interests caught my attention.  I don't sense they are in trouble financially, but I wonder what their medical and dental bills are these days.  Don't think Scamaritan is covering it all.

I also read a fleeting glimpse of insight into her remark about Elliott still being a baby himself as he lay next to Madeline.  I get it-she loves her kids and aspired to a large family, but I hope she and John will wait a long time before becoming parents again.

If nothing else, this is a hard reality check for her and John.  Shit happens; some of it she could have avoided, some is just being dealt a bad hand. At least she doesn't always gloss over her difficulties. Hope she's in better shape the next time she posts. 

 

I'm hoping that they have discussed how this heart problem really will impact the wisdom of future pregnancy.  It's evidently possible, but the medications and complications make it difficult at best.  Before I had read the whole post, I wondered why baby M was already fully on formula, but her news then made sense.

[MaryatHome]

55 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

I wonder how she’s paying for all of this, because Scamaritan doesn’t cover pre existing conditions, does it? What about dental? They either had to go buy private insurance, get Medicare/caid or empty their savings. 
 

I had a friend who had a serious heart problem that wasn’t caught until they got health insurance in their twenties. The doctors asked if they’d been born in an undeveloped country; nope, just had neglectful parents, just like Chelsy. The Bontragers better pony up for some of those dental bills as they were definitely their fault. And, as another poster noted, hearts and teeth and directly connected, you need to keep both healthy.

I’m assuming the surgery can’t happen unless she’s vaccinated but who knows. They are relaxing so many COVID restrictions, maybe they’re making exceptions to this too in some hospitals. The Maxwells will never tell. 

There is no way that Chelsy would qualify for Medicaid in Kansas.  Baby M might, given the huge expense of her prematurity.  Kansas is very stingy IRT Medicaid qualification for adults, and is one of the 12 states that haven't authorized Medicaid expansion.  It is possible that they could have qualified for subsidies on the ACA marketplace.  I hope that OPRegional (the hospital where baby M was born) had a good social worker that helped them navigate insurance plans.  Baby M is doing well, but most premies need lots of ongoing care, and that doesn't come cheap.

[SassyPants]

Oh boy, what a mess. And once one is diagnosed with a cardiac issue and already has a brood of dependent children, it’s time to reevaluate the constant PG status. It is curious that she was allowed? Encouraged? To wait several months to get a cardiac condition more comprehensively evaluated. She must have felt terrible. Ditto for her teeth. I have terrible teeth. It’s a genetic thing and no matter how much dental care I get, it does not really help. I do not have gum issues, thank the lord, but my actual teeth have had so much work that they are fragile. I had to get a root canal PP with my first too. I feel her pain on that one. And, yes, gum issues do affect your overall health. CM needs to start protecting her own health. It’s not good to have such terrible dental and periodontal issues at such a young age.

[JermajestyDuggar]

See this is why there’s such a thing amongst fundies they call “medical kidnapping.” Carver Bowers kept posting about how a fundie baby had been “kidnapped” on social media. It was not fucking kidnapping. The baby was forced into the hospital because his parents were refusing treatment and he was deteriorating in health. Once he was in the hospital for treatment, he was getting better. The baby got to go home with them as long as they followed what the doctors say for keeping him healthy. There’s no kidnapping and the parents should be ashamed of themselves for not getting the best medical care for their baby. I guess they only matter when it comes to abortion. After they are born, parents get to do whatever the fuck they want. Including not getting them medical health care that’s needed. I’m betting that’s what happened to Chelsy’s heart. 

[MomJeans]

It's possible that they purchased real medical insurance for the 2022 year.  Open enrollment ended December 15, so they knew at that time that they had serious future medical treatments.   

I feel so sad for Chelsy.  I've had a lot of health problems, and I didn't have 3 babies to look after when I was in the worst of it.

Bell's Palsy does have at least one known cause- immunological reaction to a viral infection.   That was how it happened to me- caught a virus while undergoing cancer treatment. I just felt so glum reading how much treatment she sought, when all of my doctors were very clear:  the only treatment is rest and sleep, to give your body time to repair itself. Given the stress her heart is under, it may start to heal faster once she recovers from surgery.  

It's so strange for me to see these fundie families go through serious medical situations, and the grandparents aren't moving in for months to help (assuming they can financially).  Chelsy and John needed their parents to just move in and take over for a while, whether they wanted to admit it or not. Maybe that did happen and we're not getting the full story, but it really doesn't appear that way.  We know the Bonts were in Mexico.  The Maxwell blog is no more, but Chelsy typically thanks her in-laws profusely for their help.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, MomJeans said:

It's possible that they purchased real medical insurance for the 2022 year.  Open enrollment ended December 15, so they knew at that time that they had serious future medical treatments.   

I feel so sad for Chelsy.  I've had a lot of health problems, and I didn't have 3 babies to look after when I was in the worst of it.

Bell's Palsy does have at least one known cause- immunological reaction to a viral infection.   That was how it happened to me- caught a virus while undergoing cancer treatment. I just felt so glum reading how much treatment she sought, when all of my doctors were very clear:  the only treatment is rest and sleep, to give your body time to repair itself. Given the stress her heart is under, it may start to heal faster once she recovers from surgery.  

It's so strange for me to see these fundie families go through serious medical situations, and the grandparents aren't moving in for months to help (assuming they can financially).  Chelsy and John needed their parents to just move in and take over for a while, whether they wanted to admit it or not. Maybe that did happen and we're not getting the full story, but it really doesn't appear that way.  We know the Bonts were in Mexico.  The Maxwell blog is no more, but Chelsy typically thanks her in-laws profusely for their help.

 

Oh I’m sure all the woo practitioners Chelsy loves tried to sell her ridiculous miracle cures for her Bell’s palsy. Those assholes take advantage of desperation. But I doubt Chelsy will ever see that clearly. 

[MomJeans]

Wanted to add- I would guess Chelsy's cardiologist has insisted she be covid vaccinated.  My cardiologist (rightly) harassed all patients by phone and letters to be vaccinated, and won't take new patients who are not vaxxed. 

Reading between the lines, it's seems probable that Chelsy had covid, possibly more than once.  It's a miracle it didn't kill her with her unknown heart condition.  Maybe she did get vaxxed last year, and ignored her father.  Either way, I'm shaken for her how dire it could have been. A former co-worker of mine died while pregnant from covid.

[petrushka]

3 minutes ago, MomJeans said:

 

It's so strange for me to see these fundie families go through serious medical situations, and the grandparents aren't moving in for months to help (assuming they can financially).  Chelsy and John needed their parents to just move in and take over for a while, whether they wanted to admit it or not. 

 

This is what blows me away about Ma and Pa Bontrager.  Nothing seems to stand in the way of their concert schedule. Nothing.  I choose to believe her in-laws have a tad more concern for her even though we don't have knowledge of their activities these days.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can easily see the Maxwells helping out much more than the Bontragers. The Bons likely only helped out when they weren’t touring or busy with something else like the big Christmas show at their church. That was probably few and far between. I’m guessing Steve and Teri watched the kids when needed. Sarah may have pitched in a small amount since she doesn’t seem to want to babysit much. But she can help in other ways. Like cleaning or laundry. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Mary and Anna helped out a lot when they were home for winter break. 
 

The fact that Chelsy and John went to Iowa for thanksgiving during a pandemic with a premie and a heart issue makes me sad. Too bad she didn’t take the totaled truck as a sign from god not to travel with 3 babies (one premie) during a pandemic to mingle with a bunch of anti vaxers  while you are dealing with a heart condition. 

[SassyPants]

True story: I retired because my daughter had strep throat, and a blood infection postpartum that advanced to mastitis requiring hospitalization, surgery and long term Iv therapy. I took a leave and when that time expired, I returned to work only to be called back to SA because my daughter wasn’t getting better. I spent a lot of time at the hospital (they allowed the baby to come too), and the care was every bit as advanced as in the US, so I can’t say level of care contributed.  As a loving parent and decent person, if it’s at all plausible, it is what you do. Of course, I only have 2 blessing because I actually care about and what to have a decent relationship with my children.

Also…the last time we had a serious accident, my husband was T-boned by a car running a red light, the car was totaled by insurance. There was no option of “fixing” it. This was in the 90s, and it was a company owned car. I’m thinking if the accident was near catastrophic, the truck would have been totaled for safety purposes.

[SPHASH]

I'm glad Chelsy posts on her blog from time to time so we know what is going on in Maxhell.  I wish her well with her medical issues.  I wonder how NR Anna is doing.

Would it be too much to pray to Rufus if the surgeon does a tubal ligation during surgery.  Because I'm worried the next pregnancy could kill her.

Anyone who won't get the shot with the exception of a medical reason is a selfish asshole in my book.  Not too long ago there was a guy who couldn't get an organ transplant cuz he was unvaxxed.  Said he would rather die than get the shot.  Fuck him.

[MomJeans]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

True story: I retired because my daughter had strep throat, and a blood infection postpartum that advanced to mastitis requiring hospitalization, surgery and long term Iv therapy. I took a leave and when that time expired, I returned to work only to be called back to SA because my daughter wasn’t getting better. I spent a lot of time at the hospital (they allowed the baby to come too), and the care was every bit as advanced as in the US, so I can’t say level of care contributed.  As a loving parent and decent person, if it’s at all plausible, it is what you do. Of course, I only have 2 blessing because I actually care about and what to have a decent relationship with my children.

Also…the last time we had a serious accident, my husband was T-boned by a car running a red light, the car was totaled by insurance. There was no option of “fixing” it. This was in the 90s, and it was a company owned car. I’m thinking if the accident was near catastrophic, the truck would have been totaled for safety purposes.

Yes to both of those points.

I'm "just" a stepmom, and if my adult kid called me saying "I need heart surgery, my tooth fell out and my face is paralyzed" I would be packing a suitcase while still on the phone. You wouldn't be able to stop me from coming. When I showed up and was told "Oh, we don't want to impose", I would be just nodding and smiling, while putting my kid to bed, bathing the little ones and cooking dinner.  I would be telling my husband to either come with, or not expect to see me for 5-7 months. 

And I don't understand how the truck was safely salvageable, given the damage described.  Repairs would have been seriously expensive, no?  (but I'm not a car person, so I could be way off)

[ElizaB]

I have a feeling the Maxwells would help as much as Chelsy and John need. There are a lot of negative things to say about the Maxwell family- but in times of trouble they have shown again and again they will jump in and help. They ran Chris' household so Anna Marie could get chemo in another state and they did something similar for Melanie every time she was put on bedrest. They always seem to watch various kids for weekends. I believe that Gigi really instilled in them this duty for family. She and her husband moved across the country to live near the Maxwells when Teri was depressed. She always took her grandkids on Fridays so Teri could clean and get things done. They have a history of doing for each other.  

Now, I have never gotten the impression that Chelsy's family is the same way. I don't see her family doing similar things. However, I also think that they have a ton of Maxwell support and maybe don't need help from them. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by ElizaB
clarification

[Baxter]

I would like to think that the Maxwells would help. But in the past, I think it was mostly Anna and Mary helping out when Anna Marie was away getting treatment. Teri doesn't seem like she would be able to cope with that level of child care. Sarah might help a bit but she never seemed that interested in helping with the other kids. 

If I were that sick, my mom would be helping out as much as she could. Her health isn't the best. But I would expect that she would be cooking and cleaning and helping with the kids as often as she was able. My parents 5 minutes away so she could come and go as needed.  

The coldness of fundie parents is so odd to me. But I guess if you have so many kids, maybe it is hard to bond with them properly when the kids are little. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Abby came to help Chelsy as a “mother’s helper” because she is 12 or 13 now. And that’s basically grown in fundieland. 

[Jana814]

59 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

 

Anyone who won't get the shot with the exception of a medical reason is a selfish asshole in my book.  Not too long ago there was a guy who couldn't get an organ transplant cuz he was unvaxxed.  Said he would rather die than get the shot.  Fuck him.

I heard this. I was disgusted also. They were trying to move him to another hospital. But no hospital would accept him. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, ElizaB said:

I have a feeling the Maxwells would help as much as Chelsy and John need. There are a lot of negative things to say about the Maxwell family- but in times of trouble they have shown again and again they will jump in and help. They ran Chris' household so Anna Marie could get chemo in another state and they did something similar for Melanie every time she was put on bedrest. They always seem to watch various kids for weekends. I believe that Gigi really instilled in them this duty for family. She and her husband moved across the country to live near the Maxwells when Teri was depressed. She always took her grandkids on Fridays so Teri could clean and get things done. They have a history of doing for each other.  

Now, I have never gotten the impression that Chelsy's family is the same way. I don't see her family doing similar things. However, I also think that they have a ton of Maxwell support and maybe don't need help from them. 

I think the Maxwells did a wonderful job of dispatching their daughters to help the brothers’ families when they have been in need. Now I’m not sure T and S are going to jump through hoops at the spur of the moment or as critical needs arise to help out long term. I just don’t see Teri having the capability to focus on a critical problem and redirect away from the schedule or her personal routine. My MIL was exactly wired like this too. Our family joke was if the FIL died and the funeral was on an inconvenient day, she’d have to miss it. Some people are hardwired to be inflexible. Teri appears to be 1 of those people. Remember her annual park picnic where the kids were lined up against the concrete wall? Yes, it was shady, but bring a large umbrella or better yet, hats, sunscreen and a blanket. 

[MaryatHome]

1 hour ago, SPHASH said:

I'm glad Chelsy posts on her blog from time to time so we know what is going on in Maxhell.  I wish her well with her medical issues.  I wonder how NR Anna is doing.

Would it be too much to pray to Rufus if the surgeon does a tubal ligation during surgery.  Because I'm worried the next pregnancy could kill her.

Anyone who won't get the shot with the exception of a medical reason is a selfish asshole in my book.  Not too long ago there was a guy who couldn't get an organ transplant cuz he was unvaxxed.  Said he would rather die than get the shot.  Fuck him.

There are two nationally ranked hospitals with cardiac care in Kansas City, and I know that they require (with the regular caveats) complete vaccinations for surgery/procedures.  There are a few more with decent cardiac care departments, and I'd bet good money that they require the same.  They ALL require negative tests before admission.

[physicalscience]

Just read chelsy’s blog post but haven’t caught up on the thread yet. 
 

didn’t go to the dentist for TEN years with three back to back pregnancies?! For a fertility cult these folks amaze me at the lack of knowledge on pregnancy. 

[fundiefan]

I think the image of the Maxwell's helping comes from the fact that Mary & Anna spent their lives helping their brothers wives & kids. Steve & Teri are only in the picture for 15 minute scheduled intervals. I doubt they're very hands on with helping Chelsy. 

And reading Chelsy's heath problems - wow. Just - wow. Her parents totally failed her. And I am not surprised that her family couldn't give up their touring to help her. They've never come across as warm people and we know Becky, known to her children as "Mother" is not warm & giving. And, it's freaking pathetic. My own mother has health issues of her own. Some pretty severe. As well as her husband. Since I've been diagnosed, they are here all the time; take me to all my appointments, call me every day they aren't here, will run all the way from their town to mine just to pick up a prescription or milk. I don't have kids, it's merely me they are helping & there for. If I had kids, they'd probably move in whether I wanted them to or not. 

I really can't imagine being a Bontrager or Maxwell. And, I'm glad  I can't; I don't want my mind to think the ways theirs do. 

I wish Chelsy the best, but she has to help herself. No more pregnancies. Follow all medical directives. Get the rest she will need. Don't make John dinner just because she's the girl; be an advocate for herself and her health. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, physicalscience said:

Just read chelsy’s blog post but haven’t caught up on the thread yet. 
 

didn’t go to the dentist for TEN years with three back to back pregnancies?! For a fertility cult these folks amaze me at the lack of knowledge on pregnancy. 

My sister and I were lucky to have teeth that weren’t prone to cavities. We never had a single cavity in our lives until we each had a second kid. After the birth of her second her dentist found a small cavity and the exact same thing happened to me when I had my youngest at 32. I think I was 33 or 34 when he found the cavity. I haven’t had one since. But I’ve heard of the link and you would think fundies would as well. It’s like fundies never do anything preventative. Like vaccines or basic check ups. But then when their health tanks, they are happy to use all the medical technology they shunned when it came to preventing.

[Howl]

A poster commented upthread that Chelsey likely had Covid once if not twice. 

A reminder that Covid is a vascular illness.  There is statistically a higher incidence of vascular events like stroke, thrombosis and heart related issues after Covid infection, even for mild cases.