Duggars by the Dozen 41: Marrying off the Kidults at the Speed of Light

[raayx01]

On 4/30/2021 at 1:42 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Emma is #2 in the US as of 2019. Still very popular. 

As for Elliot, Jim Elliot is a terrible namesake and I'm not found of the name for that reason.

I could see Lauren using Emma when she gets to the letter E, but only if it's a girl

[sansan]

On 4/28/2021 at 1:10 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I swear this is the biggest reason I don’t want Lauren Caldwell to marry a Duggar. It would cause constant confusion and annoy me greatly ?

No, it would be quite easy actually, Lauren and Lauren With a Hat.........

[seraaa]

3 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Is this awkward timing? The girl's case is going to be heard.

"U.S. District Judge Timothy L. Brooks told the sides in a status hearing Thursday that the case has been pending on his docket for four years.:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/30/duggar-daughters-case-on-fall-track/

Lord. This is such a lot happening in a short space of time.

[MamaMia02]

I'm super curious what is going to happen if Josh gets convicted in terms of the rest of the family regarding will they continue on life as normal im posting about their pregnancies and births or will they fade into the night

[Not that josh's mom]

I hope they'll have the sense to fade into the night but I dont expect that. It won't be long before they are back to their normal posts and nonsense because what Josh did has nothing to do with them. I dont even think it will be long before Anna does her normal posts too. Yuck!

[Smee]

6 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Is this awkward timing? The girl's case is going to be heard.

"U.S. District Judge Timothy L. Brooks told the sides in a status hearing Thursday that the case has been pending on his docket for four years.:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/30/duggar-daughters-case-on-fall-track/

Quote

The daughters are Jill Dillard, Jessa Seewald, Jinger Vuolo and Joy Duggar.

"Joy Duggar". I assume she took Austin's surname and this is just because the case was filed so long ago she hadn't married him yet?

[Not that josh's mom]

When is the stupid post from JB and M going to show up about how innocent Josh is? Surely they have a bunch of them prepared in advance to suit whatever mess he's gotten into. I cant believe they will try to gloss this over like they've done before.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I imagine this is an awkward time for Duggars who are sitting on exciting news (there are 2-3 suspected  courships and likely pregnancies that haven't been announced). Even if the couple who announces just posts to social media (no magazine features), they'll be in the shadow of disgusting Smuggar's crimes.

[JMO]

I've been wondering if the various Duggar outbranchings from JinJer, Joy and Jessa are because either they knew something was coming and decided to spend the last year making their own content, or alternatively they were encouraged to do so by JB since he knew what was coming. 

[baldricks_turnip]

I doubt the ones who make money from Youtube and paid partnerships (Jessa, Joy) will stay quiet for long because it will get in the way of business. Jill has done things the smart way: acknowledge that things are weird right now so that's its not the elephant in the room. She already posted sponsored content (albeit for Amy's store) but I think she's paving the way to do whatever content she needs to do.

[FluffySnowball]

I’m so torn on whether the other adult Duggar children should post on social media again soon.

On the one hand, I’d say: no, the whole family should fade away, they preach toxic Christianity and after what Josh did, we really don’t need them to pretend they are role models of faith. On the other hand, they aren’t responsible. This is just so complicated!

Aside from Josh, I hold JB and M responsible for Josh’s actions and also Anna for not keeping her children safe and leaving him. But Josh’s siblings - as much as I dislike their brand and message - are innocent, some even are victims of Josh and their parents on top of that.

[Smee]

Yeah, I don’t think it’s right to hold Josh’s siblings accountable for his perversions. They can do what they want on social media, just as we can say what we want over here about their cult. Counting On should go, though. By the sounds of things all the money was flowing to JB anyway and I certainly hold HIM partially responsible for letting joshgate 1.0 escalate into joshgate 3.0 and for being an all round douchebag sexist abusive terrible father.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

I’m so torn on whether the other adult Duggar children should post on social media again soon.

On the one hand, I’d say: no, the whole family should fade away, they preach toxic Christianity and after what Josh did, we really don’t need them to pretend they are role models of faith. On the other hand, they aren’t responsible. This is just so complicated!

Aside from Josh, I hold JB and M responsible for Josh’s actions and also Anna for not keeping her children safe and leaving him. But Josh’s siblings - as much as I dislike their brand and message - are innocent, some even are victims of Josh and their parents on top of that.

It's all I can do to worry about what I should do in my own life, I can't imagine caring what strangers do with their SM but I get what you mean.

They are no role models for anything as far as I'm concerned, but what Josh did has no bearing on that for anyone aside from him, JB/M, and Anna.  

I think his siblings should continue to do whatever they want to do regarding their SM and speaking out or not as they see fit.  Unless one of them speaks out in defense of Josh they aren't complicit in anything.  

To the bolded (bolding mine) of course I agree the daughters are absolutely victims of both Josh and their parents, but to a lesser,  but still significant degree, so are all of their other siblings.

To find out there has been sexual assault within your family and be given no tools or help with which to process the very normal emotional trauma that comes with that is devastating.  Being told yeah this happened but it wasn't that bad, etc. leaves kids with intense anger, fear, confusion etc. and no way to deal with it.  Sisters they loved were victimized in one of the most awful ways by their brother....no kid should have to learn that and be expected to just accept the forgive and move on mantra without some competent compassionate guidance.  

One of the biggest areas of emotional abuse imo is not allowing kids to express their emotions.  Teaching them to repress anything that isn't the approved happiness, gratitude, and blind obedience leaves them with no tools for dealing with real hardship which everyone faces at some point in life.

That isn't just fundies, plenty of families have this problem, but it's crippling and needs to stop.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:51 PM, WiseGirl said:

Is this awkward timing? The girl's case is going to be heard.

"U.S. District Judge Timothy L. Brooks told the sides in a status hearing Thursday that the case has been pending on his docket for four years.:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/30/duggar-daughters-case-on-fall-track/

Thank you for posting this.  I cross posted it to the Josh thread and gave you a shout out.

I think the timing is great, accidental or not.  Words matter and they used the word trauma to describe what was publicized.  They want damages for, in part, a "life time therapy plan."

Those are powerful statements and while I don't think they should have ever had their identities known against their will, that they are standing up for their rights against the government agency is something.  It's not suing Josh or their parents, but it's clear that if not for the initial abuse there wouldn't need to be recourse to therapy for a lifetime of damages.  

I have a brother and he's never abused me and I don't care who knows it.  The agency needs to be held accountable, but them going on record about how much damage it caused reflects even more on Josh.  If he doesn't plead out I hope this can be admitted into his trial as it was with the bond hearing.

[Hera]

Unfortunately, I don’t see this suit as being the victims’ idea so much as Jim Bob’s idea to trade in on their trauma for cash. Cash that he’ll keep. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s wrong that they were identified as victims publicly, or that I don’t think the agency should be held accountable,  just that I’m cynical enough to doubt that any money they get will go to the victims themselves.  

[Sarcastically spinster]

This is a helpful post from a "Duggar cult insider" on Anna, the environment she has been steeped in, and why she would have stayed *and* continued having children with Josh.  Helpful read if you're not familiar with the culture or have been questioning why she would do that:

https://www.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog/posts/157275853065658

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, Hera said:

Unfortunately, I don’t see this suit as being the victims’ idea so much as Jim Bob’s idea to trade in on their trauma for cash. Cash that he’ll keep. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s wrong that they were identified as victims publicly, or that I don’t think the agency should be held accountable,  just that I’m cynical enough to doubt that any money they get will go to the victims themselves.  

if they settle or are ordered to pay they can't cut the check to JB.  They will cut them to each victim and I can't see any of them turning the money over to him.  Certainly not Jill or Jinger.  Joy?  Idk anything about her as an adult, but would her headship allow her to give it to him?  The only one I can see is possibly Jessa if he strong arms her with the whole I gave you a house thing.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

This is a helpful post from a "Duggar cult insider" on Anna, the environment she has been steeped in, and why she would have stayed *and* continued having children with Josh.  Helpful read if you're not familiar with the culture or have been questioning why she would do that:

https://www.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog/posts/157275853065658

That was very well written, but this part doesn't apply to Anna:

Quote

You are also taught not have any kind of relationship with people who have “gone astray”, and have left the belief system, INCLUDING FAMILY. If Anna Duggar were to leave, she would have no one to help her. She has no life outside of the fundamentalist word. She would not just be walking away from a marriage, she would be walking away from her entire community, her entire life, her entire culture. The system is designed to keep you in the bubble out of fear.

Three of the Keller's eight kids have left fundism and are not only not shunned by their parents.  The whole family went to Suz' wedding.  The siblings who have left the fold are pictured in family gatherings and holidays.  

No doubt many ATI families shun for this, and JB and M might also (depending on advice from their PR) but the Kellers, as horrible as they are, do have a proven record of maintaining relationships with their kids who no longer share their views.  

[Sarcastically spinster]

56 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Three of the Keller's eight kids have left fundism and are not only not shunned by their parents.  The whole family went to Suz' wedding.  The siblings who have left the fold are pictured in family gatherings and holidays.  

No doubt many ATI families shun for this, and JB and M might also (depending on advice from their PR) but the Kellers, as horrible as they are, do have a proven record of maintaining relationships with their kids who no longer share their views.  

Yeah, that part isn't accurate of her.  It might affect her relationship with her in-laws, though, which I imagine would likely be devastating for her at this point.  She's been part of their family for years at this point.  She might not lose her own family, but she likely would lose the entire rest of her community.  

[pooplexed]

7 hours ago, Hera said:

Unfortunately, I don’t see this suit as being the victims’ idea so much as Jim Bob’s idea to trade in on their trauma for cash. Cash that he’ll keep. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s wrong that they were identified as victims publicly, or that I don’t think the agency should be held accountable,  just that I’m cynical enough to doubt that any money they get will go to the victims themselves.  

 

And the victims would not have been outed if the parents had handled this appropriately in the first place. Records would have been sealed. Possibly, Josh would have continued to victimize others. Jim Bob has this hanging over his head, too, although I doubt he allows himself to realize this. The lawsuit is a perfect distraction from his culpability.

[JMO]

So, putting together all the theories.  Josh's car lot gets raided. He clearly knows and fears what is going on and that it's a ticking time bomb. He most likely lied to his wife and probably the rest of his family as to what was going on. There's a lot of assumptions that his parents knew from the beginning but I think he was trying to live up to the redemption arc and lied through his teeth.  It's possible that his parents had secret ideas of what was happening.  Since then the show carried on until recently. In the past 6 months his brother runs for office and quietly and quickly marries. Justin I think was on his own timeline and would be married now no matter what but he pushed out his own content about the wedding without any consideration of a possible future release on TLC. And he moved to Texas without JB stopping him and is basically adopted into his inlaws.  Joy and Jessa and JinJer have also been releasing their own content.  So at some point I think the family or at least JB knew what was coming and TLC had to be told/found out and they decided to not review.  

[imokit]

Jill has left ATI and while she may have a tricky relationship with JB and M, she does have some contact with her siblings.  She certainly isn't fully shunned by the whole family.   If Anna were to separate from Josh, she knows that even if her parents don't approve, they won't reject her - they still let her siblings in the house.  She also knows that not all of the Duggars will shun her for leaving. We don't know her individual relationships with them - was Anna one of the most vicious when Jill started breaking away and have bridged been burned already for other reasons.  But Jill is incredibly unlikely to shun her for leaving Josh, likewise I expect there are others quietly appalled by what Josh has done who will also support her leaving. 

Anna also has a great deal of financial power, she wants to leave, all she has to do is approach a publisher and she'll have a book deal in minutes which will give her time to get time to get back on her feet.  If she doesn't want to do that, than threatening it, will I'm sure get JB to keep paying out.  Anna is an adult who's lived in the world (in DC amongst politicians), there's no way she doesn't know this.

Of  all fundy women, she's in a better position than most should she leave - both socially and financially. 

But she may genuinely believe that staying with him is the best thing for her children's souls as per ATI.

She also may quietly separate while staying married.  I can see Josh being released from prison and going back to the big house while Anna leads a separate life with the kids, without any announcement or formal separation.

[Mrs Ms]

My heart breaks for all the “kids” who have been working on the show(s) for years. If they fully believed the bullshit about not getting paid by JB and saw how Jill got shunned, it doesn’t matter if they come to their senses now over JB&M “still loving Josh” ? and not getting shunned. Their hard earned money (selling their privacy and dignity, not that a TV show is hard work!!) is now being spent on lawyers for the monster. Even if they sue it is now gone. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

None of the Duggar kids made posts in social media praising Michelle. We all know why. They would get plenty of push back in the comment section. And you know what? I’m glad. Because Michelle doesn’t deserve the praise. She wasn’t a good mom. She let her kids down over and over and over without correcting any of the obvious mistakes she made. She was neglectful and detached. She made excuses for her predator son. She deserves no praise on mother’s day. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[lunaselene503]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

None of the Duggar kids made posts in social media praising Michelle. We all know why. They would get plenty of push back in the comment section. And you know what? I’m glad. Because Michelle doesn’t deserve the praise. She wasn’t a good mom. She let her kids down over and over and over without correcting any of the obvious mistakes she made. She was neglectful and detached. She made excuses for her predator son. She deserves no praise on mother’s day. 

Jinger wished Michelle a Happy Mother’s Day. Plus the day isn’t over yet.