Duggars by the Dozen 41: Marrying off the Kidults at the Speed of Light

[Marionette]

42 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I still can not believe that a 31 YO woman complies, seemingly unquestioningly, with JB’s BS. Has to be brainwashing, right?

Jana has been conditioned her entire life to essentially worship her father and see him as her final authority. If she has any problem with it, she has been taught that it’s a problem with herself and not her father. Speaking from experience, I had a very tumultuous relationship with my dad as a teenager (still do, but I have cut him off), and I was told by anyone I went to for help that I had an “authority issue” and needed to learn how to better submit to and respect my father in order for me to stop seeing him as abusive (cause apparently my perspective was just wrong). Despite my efforts to literally become a doormat in order to try to “get along” with my father, it made things worse. I was taught & believed marriage was the only way out (thankfully never took that route!).

Jana may be 31, but leaving is not so simple. She has no job experience and has never been on her own. She’s been taught that moving out as an unmarried woman would make her a “target” for satanic attacks (see umbrella of authority). I moved out of my father’s home, and I was looked down upon by several people in these circles. Like they were literally MORE concerned about the fact that I lived on my own and had a full-time job instead of being concerned about me living with my abusive father. It was really the final straw for me in leaving fundamentalism, because I finally got so sick of them constantly telling me I needed to reconcile with my dad and go back home. Leaving meant I basically was cut off from everyone I had known/grew up around, and I only knew a few people outside of that bubble. I’m really grateful for the support of those few people, but it’s very hard and lonely sometimes. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who would help Jana (since she’s well-known), but it would be very difficult for her (not that she couldn’t do it!). The enmeshment is real!

Also... My father cut me off from my siblings for a year after I left, which would be very traumatic for both Jana and all the little Duggars if JB chose to do so. But who is to say Jana’s little sisters/nieces/nephews wouldn’t constantly be dropped at her house/apartment—unless she established very clear boundaries that she isn’t a free babysitter. She would have to be very upfront with her family and risk being cut off, or even harassed. Jana seems somewhat comfortable, and in a lot of ways, it’s easier to stay. She believes marriage is the only way out and claims to still be single cause she’s picky. I’m sure if she were desperate, she would have found some guy to marry already. And she may just believe since she hasn’t found “the one,” God wants her to remain at home. I, however, just couldn’t take it anymore mentally/emotionally. 

[FloraKitty35]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I still can not believe that a 31 YO woman complies, seemingly unquestioningly, with JB’s BS. Has to be brainwashing, right?

Yes, she's brainwashed, but fear (of the consequences of questioning) manipulation & guilt tripping can go a long, long way in keeping someone in line.

[viii]

23 hours ago, fundiefriday said:

I'm hoping Jana and Stephen are still together.  She's not going to leave the fundie life and I feel like they would be a good match.  Having a home of her own seems like it would be healthier than staying in the Duggar compound.  I hope Josh's siblings don't suffer anymore from his actions than they already have.  

This isn’t a fan board. We don’t ship Duggars with other fundies. I know you love Jana and wanna see her married with babies, but I can’t think of anything worse. The Duggar family doesn’t need any more children to control and abuse. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, viii said:

This isn’t a fan board. We don’t ship Duggars with other fundies. I know you love Jana and wanna see her married with babies, but I can’t think of anything worse. The Duggar family doesn’t need any more children to control and abuse. 

This is what I was trying to say, but not nearly as well.  Thanks.

[AussieKrissy]

I know this isn’t a duggar fan board but I’m slowly and quietly cheering for Jill. I don’t think I will ever be a duggar humper but if I was she would be the only chance. Heal Jill heal and grow and expand and open your mind. 

[SassyPants]

We are in the process of Swedish death cleaning in our house, and started in our attic. We have been going through pictures and let me tell you that 30 years goes by in the blink of an eye. If Josh, Anna, Jana or anyone in the real world isn’t living the life they want or their authentic life, what a shame. You only go around once, as far as we know, and it goes by real quick. Eat the cake, take the walk, go on an adventure and move away from toxic people and ideas.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

We are in the process of Swedish death cleaning in our house, and started in our attic. We have been going through pictures and let me tell you that 30 years goes by in the blink of an eye. If Josh, Anna, Jana or anyone in the real world isn’t living the life they want or their authentic life, what a shame. You only go around once, as far as we know, and it goes by real quick. Eat the cake, take the walk, go on an adventure and move away from toxic people and ideas.

I'm going to disagree that it's a shame Josh isn't living his authentic life.  I think his authentic life needs to be behind bars for the next several decades.

[SassyPants]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm going to disagree that it's a shame Josh isn't living his authentic life.  I think his authentic life needs to be behind bars for the next several decades.

Yes, he’s a turd, but just think if he had not drugged 7 people plus a fetus along his self destructive path.

[Bad Wolf]

25 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Yes, he’s a turd, but just think if he had not drugged 7 people plus a fetus along his self destructive path.

Dragged? 

[Satan'sFortress]

36 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Dragged? 

I hope so. Otherwise, we have a lot more to discuss!

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm going to disagree that it's a shame Josh isn't living his authentic life.  I think his authentic life needs to be behind bars for the next several decades.

Your words to god’s ears!!!!! Make this happen!!!! Let’s all manifest it or pray for it or whatever the particular beliefs of the person hold. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

15 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm going to disagree that it's a shame Josh isn't living his authentic life.  I think his authentic life needs to be behind bars for the next several decades.

I’ve always thought that in an alternate life Josh could have been a mildly sleazy lawyer with an active consensual sex life, and stayed busy and satisfied enough that he didn’t…you know. Maybe not.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’ve always thought that in an alternate life Josh could have been a mildly sleazy lawyer with an active consensual sex life, and stayed busy and satisfied enough that he didn’t…you know. Maybe not.

No maybe about it, imo.  Men who are capable of wanting only consensual sex with adult women don't do what he did.  

[Idlewild]

Even in the Duggar cult I’m sure Josh could have found opportunities to be an adulterous slimeball- in fact I wish he had, it might have protected children.

[Cam]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:36 PM, viii said:

This isn’t a fan board. We don’t ship Duggars with other fundies. I know you love Jana and wanna see her married with babies, but I can’t think of anything worse. The Duggar family doesn’t need any more children to control and abuse. 

Couldn’t someone wish that Jana finds companionship with a great life partner without necessarily also wanting her to have a quiverful o kids? There’s already something about her that didn’t do the usual female fundy thing by marrying in her teens or early twenties and start makin babies. Not even after she’s watched so many of her siblings go that route. A whole decade of her life where she could have been having kids like a good girl in that religious cult is supposed to do.

I don’t buy into the idea that Jana stays unwed to help her mom out with the younger siblings. Meech isn’t having any more, and the “baby” is eleven. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Cam

[viii]

4 minutes ago, Cam said:

Couldn’t someone wish that Jana finds companionship with a great life partner without necessarily also wanting her to have a quiverful o kids?

They can, but I've noticed that this particular poster is a big Jana fan and has posted several times shipping her with Stephen and hoping for a courtship/marriage. 

[MamaMia02]

3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’ve always thought that in an alternate life Josh could have been a mildly sleazy lawyer with an active consensual sex life, and stayed busy and satisfied enough that he didn’t…you know. Maybe not.

If it was just the Ashley Madison thing I would agree with you. I was even a bit inclined to think that the molestation were a result of the sexual shame he had growing up but these recent charges really show that is not the chase. It wasn't a youthful indiscretion or just a married too young and cheated on his wife kind of thing.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

30 minutes ago, Cam said:

Couldn’t someone wish that Jana finds companionship with a great life partner without necessarily also wanting her to have a quiverful o kids?

I don't think it's healthy to wish a life of being second class to a headship on anyone, no matter how they want it.  And to wish for people to have happy marriages in a quiverful cult without thinking of the children who could be born into it is either self-delusion or fanfic.

I don't think any child deserves to be brought into a culture where they are denied an education and women aren't considered to be full adults regardless of their age...not to mention their normalization of sexual attraction to children which they openly discuss as the reason for modesty standards for little girls. 

I agree life has dealt her a shitty hand and I certainly hope she can find a way out of her cult without bringing any other innocent life into the mix.  But those of you so concerned about her happiness, I just wonder if you're as concerned about the happiness of any potential children.  Or the crippling emotional trauma of a child born into that cult?  If one of her children was gay, trans, didn't believe in God, longed for a life and career they will be denied by virtue of the cult is their well being a fair trade off for hers?  

I think her generation got completely screwed by JB and M, but the answer to that for me is to hope they find their own path where they can live without harming others.  But for me the answer will never be because they got shafted then it's not their fault so they should get a pass on perpetuating it to yet another generation.

And of course she may do somethings differently than her parents, but as long as she is a public face for her cult and has never disavowed it I fail to see how it would be healthy for her or any future children to continue the sexism and hate with yet another fundy marriage.  

19 minutes ago, MamaMia02 said:

If it was just the Ashley Madison thing I would agree with you. I was even a bit inclined to think that the molestation were a result of the sexual shame he had growing up but these recent charges really show that is not the chase. It wasn't a youthful indiscretion or just a married too young and cheated on his wife kind of thing.

I agree with most of this.  I do think the molestations showed an attraction to prepubescent girls and I hate that I was right.  But for the other stuff, sure if it was just the slimey Ashley Madison stuff maybe an alternate life where he could do what he will consensually would have spared his family a lot of pain.  But he's a pedophile and no amount of consensual sex with adults would make him less of a danger to children.

Edited May 17, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[postscript]

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’ve always thought that in an alternate life Josh could have been a mildly sleazy lawyer with an active consensual sex life, and stayed busy and satisfied enough that he didn’t…you know. Maybe not.

If Josh hadn’t been so heavily indoctrinated in the cult of Jim Bob, I can see him as a beer-swilling good ol’ boy with questionable ethics. He’d either juggle multiple relationships (though why any woman would want to date him would still be a mystery) or have gone through multiple marriages and divorces. Not an admirable person by any means but a more satisfying life for him. 

[fundiefriday]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:36 PM, viii said:

This isn’t a fan board. We don’t ship Duggars with other fundies. I know you love Jana and wanna see her married with babies, but I can’t think of anything worse. The Duggar family doesn’t need any more children to control and abuse. 

I'm not sorry that I hope Jana can get the hell out of JB's house.  I also realize this isn't a fan board.  Do I ship her and Stephen Wissman?  Not particularly but at this point he's probably the last chance she has at ever getting out of NWA and under JB's thumb so there is a part of me that hopes it works out. No, I don't want her to have a ton of babies either.  I think it would be wonderful if Jana or any of the lost boys actually left the house, lived on their own and were no longer financially dependent on JB. That would be great for the minor children to see.  Unfortunately, this isn't realistic.  Those kids aren't leaving the cult.  If all this makes me a terrible fundie shipper, then whatever - I just don't give a damn anymore. 

[viii]

Getting married won't get her out from under JB's thumb. He has shown that he still interferes with married couples - leave and cleave, my ass. If anything, it just gives a second person to control her, especially because she's marrying someone who is just as drunk in the kool-aid as she is. Isn't Stephen Wissman fundie royalty? I highly doubt it's going to be like a Derick situation where he will slowly bring her to the light. They're far more likely to double down and have as many kids as they biologically can and continue the fucked up cycle. 

[Idlewild]

I suppose it depends - if they’re not living in a JB property and don’t want to be part of the show or cash in on any public profile related to the Duggar brand, then they could actually achieve independence. 

[viii]

Save for Josie the miracle child, Jana is his last cash cow. Her courtship, wedding and first baby will be the stuff leghumpers crave. There's no way he's going to let her go off with Stephen Wissman and not reap any reward for it. 

[justmy2cents]

34 minutes ago, viii said:

Save for Josie the miracle child, Jana is his last cash cow. Her courtship, wedding and first baby will be the stuff leghumpers crave. There's no way he's going to let her go off with Stephen Wissman and not reap any reward for it. 

That would have been true 2 months ago but it’s probably no longer up to him if the show gets cancelled.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

55 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

I suppose it depends - if they’re not living in a JB property and don’t want to be part of the show or cash in on any public profile related to the Duggar brand, then they could actually achieve independence. 

As long as she's still in a cult where she's going from her dad's umbrella to her husband's (such a stupid term) and refuses to acknowledge her own autonomy for her life choices independence isn't a word that can be applied to her.  

18 hours ago, fundiefriday said:

I'm not sorry that I hope Jana can get the hell out of JB's house.  I also realize this isn't a fan board.  Do I ship her and Stephen Wissman?  Not particularly but at this point he's probably the last chance she has at ever getting out of NWA and under JB's thumb so there is a part of me that hopes it works out. No, I don't want her to have a ton of babies either.  I think it would be wonderful if Jana or any of the lost boys actually left the house, lived on their own and were no longer financially dependent on JB. That would be great for the minor children to see.  Unfortunately, this isn't realistic.  Those kids aren't leaving the cult.  If all this makes me a terrible fundie shipper, then whatever - I just don't give a damn anymore. 

Bolded mine.  I honestly don't understand why you're getting so upset that some people here aren't on board with wishes for Jana that perpetuate the cult if you know this isn't a fan site.  It's all academic anyway since no one here has the power to influence her one way or the other, it's just odd to me that you seem so offended that some people here think an adult in her 30's is responsible for her choices.