Bontrager/Bowers 7: Thanking the Lord for all the Matchmaking

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

She hasn’t been posting much on IG and hasn’t posted in over a month on her blog. I think she went into marriage expecting it to be magical, like she was told growing up, only to find it a lot of work. Living with a SO full time is a lot more work than living with anyone else. Nothing about being human is perfect. We are nasty, our bodily functions and such. To have to groom yourself and show your unmade, unperfect, flawless self to someone is hard. You want them to see you as beautiful all of the time. I hope jeremiah is helping her through this. Being in a serious relationship with someone, marriage or life partner, can be wonderful. 

They’ve only been married for four months so I bet she’s still hiding everything embarrassing. I imagine her like Midge Maisel when she was married. She would wake up early to brush her teeth, do her makeup and hair for when her husband woke up. Allison probably hasn’t even farted in front of him yet. It’s all rainbows and sunshine until she gets pregnant and has to throw up out of the blue and can’t hold in her pregnancy farts. 

[usmcmom]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:14 AM, IsmeWeatherwax said:

I have 2 daughters and 2 sons, and I can honestly say hand on heart, boys are much easier to raise!

I have one of each and I agree with you. 

My thoughts on raising them: Raising a boy was like being body slammed every six months. They do something ridiculous that kind of knocks the air out of you but you get up and keep going. 
 

Raising a girl was like being pecked in the eye by a duck all day, every day. 

[browngrl]

3 hours ago, fundiefan said:

So, today I just saw her making it very clear that she was f*cking miserable being unmarried. She's using fluffy words to say waiting is worth it, but between the fluff is a lot of angst and misery. 

My thoughts exactly.  I blame Marlin and Becky. I'm sure they were hugely passive aggressive and continually implied it was all her fault for being single till  Alison  internalized the message and saved them the work by berating herself. No doubt Alison's single years were needlessly hard. 

I have no idea how her marriage is going/what her husband is like because she speaks only in fundie tropes. However I tend to think this has been the sort of transition that has required constant prayer and "dying to the Lord "(I'm not sure if I've got fundie speak right but you know what I mean).

[Foudeb]

I'm on loads of "mummy" Facebook groups, because let's face it, it's the mothers doing the bulk of the parenting, and there is so, so much internalised misogyny. 

Boy toddlers are "little men" "boisterous" "all boy" "very independent" "a little explorer" etc. 

Girl toddlers are "hard work" "little madams" "stroppy" "stubborn" etc 

And I'm talking children who still shit themselves and can't recognise themselves in a mirror here (so, less developped than your average ape or cat). 

Just throwing this observation out there. We criticise fundies for their strict gender norms, where manly men must stoically provide and delicate females must be subservient, silent, docile and above all fertile, but it's not a binary, fundy / not fundy. More like a spectrum, some people are very very sexist, others are less sexist. 

I'm not saying that a specific girl can't be hard work. Children are unique little people with their own personality and discovering who they are is half the joy of parenthood! But saying "all girls are difficult" is just as sexist as saying "all girls are bad at maths / are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to have a job / etc". Women are people. We're different from each other. And on the whole, on average, women-as-a-group aren't that different from men-as-a-group. 

Now if you say girls are harder to parent because you keep getting told they are stroppy little madams for behaviour that, in a boy, would be referred to as "exhibits strong leadership skills at a young age" now there I'm with you. 

[fundiefan]

I was always referred to as feisty, stubborn and bratty, as well as many other things - bitchy comes to mind - once I got older. I internalized that shit most of my life. Even after adulthood. When I was getting divorced and facing a lifetime of BS with my therapist, she worked really hard to get me to absorb the fact that those words were damaging to my self esteem. One of the ways she helped get it to sink in was by asking me to describe my god-sons - twins who were 5 at the time. I said things like rambunctious, determined, intense. She asked me to swap the descriptions - refer to them as I was referred to and refer to myself with the terms I used to describe them. Then, she had me look up all the words used in a Thesaurus. 

My own freaking mind was blown. 

It may have taken until I was in my 40's to not only understand how words affected me but how they affect others, but you can be damn sure I am extremely intentional when I use words to describe any child in my life, especially in front of them. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

When I was a little kid, I was hyper, loud, energetic, crude, sassy, physical, and was what some might call a “tomboy.” I’ve known all about sexism from a young age. I never behaved correctly because I was a girl. That was made very clear to me starting early. 
 

ETA: I learned how to behave in more accepted ways by the time I was a tween. But I was still very much criticized for my looks, clothing, and a little bit of my behavior. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[Caroline]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:09 AM, Melissa1977 said:

Yes, but it's your case. Other families have the opposite situation. I have 2 boys and 1 is very obedient while the other is a little rebel. It worries me when people say kids are harder depending on their sex, instead of depending on their personality (or their parents expectations). 

 

I say this too.  My husband and I have very similar mellow personalities.  We only have one daughter - she's like a clone of us.  Never any drama about anything, and she's always been a pleasure to have around at any age.  I have always said that if we'd had a boy he would probably be a quiet, introspective little boy just as my husband was and still is.   

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, Foudeb said:

I'm on loads of "mummy" Facebook groups, because let's face it, it's the mothers doing the bulk of the parenting, and there is so, so much internalised misogyny. 

Boy toddlers are "little men" "boisterous" "all boy" "very independent" "a little explorer" etc. 

Girl toddlers are "hard work" "little madams" "stroppy" "stubborn" etc 

And I'm talking children who still shit themselves and can't recognise themselves in a mirror here (so, less developped than your average ape or cat). 

Just throwing this observation out there. We criticise fundies for their strict gender norms, where manly men must stoically provide and delicate females must be subservient, silent, docile and above all fertile, but it's not a binary, fundy / not fundy. More like a spectrum, some people are very very sexist, others are less sexist. 

I'm not saying that a specific girl can't be hard work. Children are unique little people with their own personality and discovering who they are is half the joy of parenthood! But saying "all girls are difficult" is just as sexist as saying "all girls are bad at maths / are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to have a job / etc". Women are people. We're different from each other. And on the whole, on average, women-as-a-group aren't that different from men-as-a-group. 

Now if you say girls are harder to parent because you keep getting told they are stroppy little madams for behaviour that, in a boy, would be referred to as "exhibits strong leadership skills at a young age" now there I'm with you. 

Preach! The misogyny on this thread has been awful to see and I agree individual female children can be more difficult, but saying all girls are difficult is just internalized misogyny!

The Bontragers have made it clear they prefer their sons/grandsons over daughters/granddaughters and I feel sorry for children raised in families like that. 

[Kailash]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When I was a little kid, I was hyper, loud, energetic, crude, sassy, physical, and was what some might call a “tomboy.” I’ve known all about sexism from a young age. I never behaved correctly because I was a girl. That was made very clear to me starting early. 
 

ETA: I learned how to behave in more accepted ways by the time I was a tween. But I was still very much criticized for my looks, clothing, and a little bit of my behavior. 

I was the same way growing up.  We made it a point to call outrageous, crude things “lady like” when my daughter did them. It was lady like because she was a female and she was doing it. Even now, if I accidentally do something considered “rude” my husband will say “You okay, Princess?” We’ve completely  turned the concept on its head and I love it. This doesn’t mean we didn’t teach our child what was appropriate behavior, because we did. But if it wasn’t appropriate for girls, neither was it appropriate for boys. 

And I can definitely say without a doubt that my daughter is my hardest child. 
 

 

(She’s an only child. ?)

[Nothing if not critical]

I have two girls, one of them is super challenging, the other fairly easy so far. Does that mean number two is secretly a boy? ?

To be clear, I'm not questioning anybody's experiences here. I just wonder why people feel confident about making a blanket statement about a whole gender ("boys are easier"), based on observing a sample of four or five individuals.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Nothing if not critical

[mango_fandango]

I am not my mother so can’t really speak for her, but I don’t think my brother or I were particularly difficult to raise. I don’t have kids so no experience raising my own. I do kind of wonder what a kid of mine would be like; a lot of it would depend on my partner of course, and whether I end up going for a guy who’s quite different to me (as in, he’d be outgoing/extroverted) or for one who’s more similar. 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@Nothing if not critical I wasnt making a blanket statement on genders, I was talking about MY sons and daughters. For me personally I find my boys easier to raise than my girls. But its the little things in life, not huge massive drama moments that I am talking about. 

For the record, I was an absolute tomboy until I was about 15, I still remember screaming the house down because Mother was trying to put me in a dress to go to church when I was 8/9...I wore my jeans and trainers and all was well in the world ?

[Nothing if not critical]

34 minutes ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

 

@Nothing if not critical I wasnt making a blanket statement on genders, I was talking about MY sons and daughters. For me personally I find my boys easier to raise than my girls.

 

As I said, I'm certainly not going to argue with your personal experience. It was just the way you phrased it that, to me, suggested a blanket statement and rubbed me the wrong way. No offense intended, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Nothing if not critical

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, Kailash said:

I was the same way growing up.  We made it a point to call outrageous, crude things “lady like” when my daughter did them. It was lady like because she was a female and she was doing it. Even now, if I accidentally do something considered “rude” my husband will say “You okay, Princess?” We’ve completely  turned the concept on its head and I love it. This doesn’t mean we didn’t teach our child what was appropriate behavior, because we did. But if it wasn’t appropriate for girls, neither was it appropriate for boys. 

And I can definitely say without a doubt that my daughter is my hardest child. 
 

 

(She’s an only child. ?)

My mom always used the word “ladylike” in a very serious manner. She was often telling me to be more ladylike. I suppose my worst offense was when she would force me into a dress in holidays. She would always have to get a picture and right when she was about to take the picture, I would lift up my skirt so you could see my underwear. We have a few holiday pictures like that. She eventually stopped forcing me into dresses. Although we had to wear dresses for band concerts in 5th-8th grade. She was always in the audience motioning for me to close my legs. Yes, I often sat spread eagle in a dress at band concerts ?

[browngrl]

No children here so I can't speak to that but I have noticed a gender bias (? is this the correct term).I see this at work even though most of the people I work with are women. Women are expected to be "nicer" while men get a pass on even "bad" behaviour.

For example this happened on day. We had two angio/interventional rooms going at the same time. On one side was a male interventional radiologist and on the other a female interventional radiologist. In both rooms the situation was tense as things were going poorly. At one point the man took the catheter handed to him by the nurse and pulled it apart and flung it to the ground and then stamped on it all while screaming it was the wrong catheter. At one point in the other room the woman said in a tense and curt voice "get me 'x' NOW". Afterwards it was not the man the nurses were talking about. It was the woman and there was much commentary on how much of a bitch she was. I was no better as I was thinking along the same lines.

This episode made me more aware of this bias and how easy it was to fall into.  Since then I've made it a point to check it in myself. I think I've improved but this stuff is so ingrained it is hard to weed out. 

[MomJeans]

Allison's latest instagram and blog posts are about her singleness season being wonderful, and how glad she is she waited for her wonderful husband. So nothing new or even interesting.

I don't doubt she's still in the honeymoon period, but man, it's staring to read like she feels defensive or something. . . . .  (Honestly, I actually think she is just trying to pivot to building a brand on ChristianMarriage.)

Also, there is an instagram post that she met her husband's married sister two years ago, and that is how she (and presumably, the Bontragers) got to know the Helferich family.  I'm very curious to see if the Bontragers ever do a 'courtship' story for Allison and husband. 

[ElizaB]

One thing that really shows me gender bias is the reaction that is given when gender roles are broken. When my daughter was young and  I put her in "boy" clothes I was applauded for not conforming and letting her wear what she wanted. When my young son was put in "girl" clothes I was judged. I would like to say I purposely did this to teach them about how unnecessary gender roles are; however, to be honest I was just cheap and relied on hand-me-downs. I took what I could get!  

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm fairly practical and asked for gender neutral stuff for the baby girl I'm having next month. We thought we might have a second and I'd love to reuse whatever we can without issue. Good friends gave me girly clothes because they informed me I'd be sick of people assuming my daughter was a boy. Gee, thanks. (Although the clothes are very cute and will get as much wear as possible before she outgrows them.)

I'll admit for one hazy moment I did consider a bow for the hospital and then I got ahold of myself. Hormones are wild. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'm fairly practical and asked for gender neutral stuff for the baby girl I'm having next month. We thought we might have a second and I'd love to reuse whatever we can without issue. Good friends gave me girly clothes because they informed me I'd be sick of people assuming my daughter was a boy. Gee, thanks. (Although the clothes are very cute and will get as much wear as possible before she outgrows them.)

I'll admit for one hazy moment I did consider a bow for the hospital and then I got ahold of myself. Hormones are wild. 

I wanted all gender neutral stuff too. There isn’t as much anymore since most people find out the sex before birth. I loved that I could give my baby stuff away to my cousin when she was having a girl because it was all gender neutral. She used them for bother her girls and her boy. They got a lot of use since they were gender neutral.

[HereticHick]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wanted all gender neutral stuff too. There isn’t as much anymore since most people find out the sex before birth. I loved that I could give my baby stuff away to my cousin when she was having a girl because it was all gender neutral. She used them for bother her girls and her boy. They got a lot of use since they were gender neutral.

I always try to give gender neutral clothing as baby gifts, even if I know the sex. Enough with this endless hot pink-sparkle-glitter-princess-diva crap for little girls. My mom says that decades ago, when folks rarely knew if they were having a boy or girl, infant clothing was more gender neutral (ironic considering how overall society was not)

[fundiefan]

The Bonts & their view of girls is on full display with their post on Jubilee. They've been doing the grandkids and the boys got posts with lots of words describing them. Things they like. Words like energetic, funny, creative, social. . Jubilee? She gets drama, girly girl & shopping. 

Given we just talked about the effects of words - it's so sad to see it so blatantly. 

[anachronistic]

It makes me so mad that the Bontragers, who have ignored the majority of covid guidelines, get to see their new family member and grandchildren all the time and my family and so many others, who take the pandemic seriously, can’t. If they and others like them had been willing to give up part of their lifestyle we could ALL be together this Christmas like in Australia and New Zealand. Instead we get a pathetic zoom with kids who have probably forgotten we exist, and the Bontragers will no doubt have a big family Christmas and spread the deadly virus even more.

It’s really hard being charitable about this right now, you know? I know I need to be strict and careful and I will be, I will be, but what I wouldn’t give for one big hug from my niblings.....I never thought I could envy and despise people at the same time.

[teachergirl]

Yes and it wasn't just them...it was the Duggars, Kellers, Keen/Turley/Disharoons/James and Stacy McDonald who all had big gatherings over Thanksgiving...shame on Lindsay Keen especially since she is studying to be a nurse and works in a hospital. ( Her sister is Melissa Keen, married to the insufferable Justin Turley and they have six kids. Her sister Sarah is single but according to her IG is an election expert.) These asshole will spread it and not care.

[JermajestyDuggar]

43 minutes ago, teachergirl said:

Yes and it wasn't just them...it was the Duggars, Kellers, Keen/Turley/Disharoons/James and Stacy McDonald who all had big gatherings over Thanksgiving...shame on Lindsay Keen especially since she is studying to be a nurse and works in a hospital. ( Her sister is Melissa Keen, married to the insufferable Justin Turley and they have six kids. Her sister Sarah is single but according to her IG is an election expert.) These asshole will spread it and not care.

I agree. I just assume almost everyone we talk about on FJ had a big thanksgiving gathering and will have big Christmas gatherings. Well except the Andersons because they don’t like to be friends with their cult members anymore and the Nogs because no one would willingly socialize with them. 

[DrPusey]

Also noticed that in the blog post ostensibly about Jubilee that Carolina and Carson are apparently inside a store without masks. Nice to see how much they care about their fellow community members.