Justin and Claire: Woe Is Me

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

And the award for least surprising news of 2020 goes to... Justin and Claire! Well done you guys, you truly, really, in no way exceeded our expectations. 

I actually am surprised. It's probably wishful thinking, but I'm disappointed. He's so young. It wouldn't be better if the girl was younger. 

I wish them happiness, but I really think this is going to rough. They're young and not really prepared for life. JB and Michelle really did a number on these kids. I'm sure her parents aren't great, but at least they have a more managable family size. 

[mpheels]

I wouldn’t be surprised if both AR and TX ramp up crowd restrictions in the next week or two. The overwhelming COVID19 surges in the spring and summer were localized in specific cities/regions. The new surge is nationwide, so a lot of communities are really getting slammed for the first time, plus governors in red states no longer have political incentive to ignore COVID19. A bunch of very conservative states implemented mask mandates in the past few days. Limiting size of indoor gatherings is one of the easiest to enforce and least economically harmful public health measures a state can take. (For the record, I think the economic arguments against public health measures are bullshit. We cannot have a functional service economy if people are afraid to go to restaurants. We really need to just give people money so they can make ends meet until next summer.)

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Houses of worship tend to have less restrictive COVID measures placed on them. They’ll pare the list down somewhat, but they’ll call the wedding ceremony  ‘a religious service’ and pack in 200 people for photos and show footage. Then they’ll limit the reception guests using COVID as an excuse, but it’s mostly about saving money.

[Idlewild]

No invite for the Rodrigues family then? Pity! 

[WiseGirl]

Wow, they both look like babies in the engagement photo. Oh wait... 

And whover still thinks Duggars adhere to, or care about, COVID rules I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Oh I agree that the Duggars and their ilk don’t care about COVID restrictions, but TLC needs to make sure it’s ass is covered. A Duggar wedding-turned superspeader event isn’t a good look.

[Marionette]

1 hour ago, mpheels said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if both AR and TX ramp up crowd restrictions in the next week or two. The overwhelming COVID19 surges in the spring and summer were localized in specific cities/regions. The new surge is nationwide, so a lot of communities are really getting slammed for the first time, plus governors in red states no longer have political incentive to ignore COVID19. A bunch of very conservative states implemented mask mandates in the past few days. Limiting size of indoor gatherings is one of the easiest to enforce and least economically harmful public health measures a state can take. (For the record, I think the economic arguments against public health measures are bullshit. We cannot have a functional service economy if people are afraid to go to restaurants. We really need to just give people money so they can make ends meet until next summer.)

 

1 hour ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Houses of worship tend to have less restrictive COVID measures placed on them. They’ll pare the list down somewhat, but they’ll call the wedding ceremony  ‘a religious service’ and pack in 200 people for photos and show footage. Then they’ll limit the reception guests using COVID as an excuse, but it’s mostly about saving money.

AR’s governor just put a mask mandate on churches about a week ago. Everyone has to wear masks, even while singing, and social distance. I’ll bet a lot of churches still won’t follow that.... The city of Fayetteville in particular has limited household gatherings to a maximum of 10 and is petitioning that the University of Arkansas go completely remote after Thanksgiving.

Of course, the Duggars don’t live within Fayetteville city limits, and I doubt they’ll follow a mask mandate at their church. But Arkansas is definitely starting to reevaluate...

[Snarkasarus Rex]

15 minutes ago, Marionette said:

Of course, the Duggars don’t live within Fayetteville city limits, and I doubt they’ll follow a mask mandate at their church. But Arkansas is definitely starting to reevaluate...

I doubt they will marry in AR. Claire is from TX and my money is on them settling there. Houses of worship in TX are also exempt from many restrictions.  

[JillyO]

Here’s a scary thought: If they follow the usual Duggar timeline of roughly 3 months between engagement and wedding (and I agree that’s likely, not least in order to make their age gap seem smaller by having the wedding before Claire turns 20 in February), and she gets pregnant on their honeymoon, they could have a baby while Justin is still 18.  Yikes. 

[Aine]

I think there is a chance they do a really small private ceremony that is filmed by a TLC crew, with extended family all watching over Zoom because that would actually work for TV quite nicely. Each sibling and their family tuning in from afar etc. And then have a huge reception next year when (hopefully) the virus is under control and it's safe. If anything, that would drag it out and give TLC and JB two events that people would tune into on the show and be good PR. They could even swing the quickie wedding/small private ceremony part of it with some line about how the suffering, anxiety, and uncertainty that 2020 and this pandemic has brought to people across the world has made them realize that they didn't want to miss a moment being together and has brought a new appreciation for what's important in life blah blah blah

10 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Are things likely to change after 20 January or does the president have no influence over the regulations in the different states? If the rules are likely to get stricter after 20 January, I could see them having the wedding before that.  

Biden has indicated that he plans to implement federal mandates around mask wearing and other Covid prevention measures. He's been firm on that for months now. The reason we're all talking about state regulations is because the incompetent lunatic and his team of cowardly yes-men has refused to take any responsibility or decisive action and keeps saying it's up to the states or local governments.

But I think federal mandates will be difficult to implement for the new administration due to prevention measures becoming political dividing lines. You'd still need state and local governments to help with enforcement, and that's not happening in many places even when those state/local governments have made mask mandates themselves. I live in Mississippi and my city has had mask wearing ordinances in place since March or early April and it's actively enforced by the city police department. But in the surrounding counties, the only time the mask mandate has been in place was when the governor called for a temporary one a couple of months ago and even then it wasn't being enforced there and was lax. The whole thing is a mess. Transmission will only go down if everyone is on board with the measures and complying because people move over city limits into the counties and across county and state lines. Trump could have got almost the whole country on board early on but not only didn't he do that, he actively sabotaged the chances of that ever happening now. #endrant

Tl;dr: Yes, the President technically can put in federal restrictions but the chances are that they won't be effective or followed on the scale needed for them to be effective.

 

[FluffySnowball]

The announcement didn’t surprise me but it’s still kinda sad. What an unfortunate situation when you just can’t feel happy for two newly engaged people. But with them being teenagers, marriage isn’t a reason to celebrate. Especially in their particular circumstances (cult, etc.) 

While I wish them all the best, both their parents set them up to fail and I just cannot imagine there won’t be some unhappiness and heartache in their future because they got married so young. Even worse, their (assumed) belief in not using any birth control might totally stop them from experience somewhat carefree late teenage years and early 20s. 

[HereticHick]

6 hours ago, Idlewild said:

No invite for the Rodrigues family then? Pity! 

But but but--Jill and Davy need to swing the RV by Pecan Waller's new church post in Fort Worth and get themselves some free food!

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, JillyO said:

Here’s a scary thought: If they follow the usual Duggar timeline of roughly 3 months between engagement and wedding (and I agree that’s likely, not least in order to make their age gap seem smaller by having the wedding before Claire turns 20 in February), and she gets pregnant on their honeymoon, they could have a baby while Justin is still 18.  Yikes. 

If they could have a decent amount of time before their first baby (read: years), such a young marriage wouldn't seem quite as crazy. What gets me is the fact that they won't use birth control and will likely conceive, if not give birth, before their first anniversary. The latest any 2nd-gen Duggar has gone before conceiving their first baby was Jinger at 11 months. Barring fertility or miscarriage issues, Justin will be a dad before he's out of his teens. If they turn out to be as fertile as JoKen...?

[Sops2]

I've just posted on the Pecan thread that Justin has joined David Waller's  church -Fairport Baptist in Fort Worth.He was welcomed to the congregation last Sunday.

Has he moved out the Duggar house already?!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

There is no way in hell these evangelicals will bow down to COVID rules. there are no real consequences of breaking the COVID mandates, nothing will happen to the people at the event, aside from dying from COIVD, I can see facilities just now allowing the large crowds but these folks will get around that by doing it at a church. I foresee another church parking lot reception, with hundreds in attendance.  I think they will cut the list down some but I still imagine 300/400 people coming. 

I don't see them marrying at Christmas, it is only 6 weeks away from the engagement, maybe 7 if it happened a week sooner, then was announced, that will be hard to pull off. I'm gonna bet they marry sometime between Jan 22, 2021 & Feb 6, 2021, ITA they will marry before her birthday.

[TheGleeTeam]

I don't think there's any way that TLC and Jim Bob (and Ma Spivey!) will pass up an opportunity to put this wedding on TV. We know the show is always pretty far behind in the timeline so I wouldn't be surprised if next season has plenty of footage about their courtship (I think the announcement in the last 2 minutes of the season was more because they didn't want to have a public announcement before then due to Justin's age). I think they'll do a Counting Now segment about the wedding and then they'll have a full episode, like they've had with the other weddings these past few years.

If Texas really does allow events at 75% capacity (wow) then I think they'll just have minimal covid precautions and an otherwise fairly normal Duggar wedding. I don't know how cold Fort Worth is in winter, but maybe a big heated tent or something (not that I think that actually will do any good with covid). There are a surprising number of people still having weddings in general. TLC might put a disclaimer about how state rules were being followed, but would they be that concerned? TLC wants content and their angle on the Duggars has always been more of a "wow look at these people" (compared to UPTV with the Bates, which is more of a "aww how sweet and Christian are they!").

I'm curious if Clairitin (we're using that celeb couple name right? Pleeeease?) will get a filmed honeymoon like the other couples. Maybe somewhere within the US where they can still film plenty of "culture-shock" type moments, since the honeymoon trips are the most interesting (relatively speaking of course) content other than weddings.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

55 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

I've just posted on the Pecan thread that Justin has joined David Waller's  church -Fairport Baptist in Fort Worth.He was welcomed to the congregation last Sunday.

Has he moved out the Duggar house already?!

I think he's been living in TX for quite a while now, probably close to a year, I wonder if he's been going between the Wallers and the Spivey's homes, since Dave & Priss would be suitable chaperones and all that, we know he can't be living on his own, actually as a minor he really shouldn't live on his own, at the very least he can't rent anything by himself, unless he's emancipated & no way in hell JB would allow that AND still allow him contact with the family. 

[SweetLaurel]

Breaks my heart these two horny teenagers can't just f*ck and then apply to colleges like most kids.  Instead they have to get married and reproduce asap.  And neither of them have any options from there on out thanks to  Jesus and Daddy.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

18 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think he's been living in TX for quite a while now, probably close to a year, I wonder if he's been going between the Wallers and the Spivey's homes, since Dave & Priss would be suitable chaperones and all that, we know he can't be living on his own, actually as a minor he really shouldn't live on his own, at the very least he can't rent anything by himself, unless he's emancipated & no way in hell JB would allow that AND still allow him contact with the family. 

David’s family just moved to the area recently. I’m sure he’s probably been living with the Spivey’s. When you bring your kids up as sheltered fundies, you probably don’t have to worry too much about any hanky panky. All fundie kids seem to be raised to be tattlers. Justin probably sleeps in the Boys’ room and she probably sleeps in a room with her sister. That’s a lot of potential tattlers.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I also think fundie teens/young adults have plenty of other reasons to get married besides just horniness. 

For one thing, like most young people, they want to be seen as adults in their community. Marriage is the only real way for a fundie to become an adult. 

Another is they want to move out and live somewhere that isn't with their parents and siblings. This is true even when they get along relatively well with the family. Of course if there are dysfunctional relationships this gives them even more of an incentive to move out. 

[HereticHick]

Last year Gary Marvin Atherton of Texas, the father of Hilary Spivey, died, and the service was held at Fairpark Baptist Church in Fort Worth, now the home of the fabulous David Waller:

https://www.echovita.com/us/obituaries/tx/peggy/gary-marvin-atherton-9470757

[Idlewild]

I can definitely see Jill Rodrigues stalking the Wallers with a view to crashing this wedding! 

[Befuddled]

No matter the 75% capacity rules in Texas or what the families decide to do regarding a full on wedding, it's really not fair for TLC to put the film crews at risk.  It's one thing for them to film a few people at a time and totally another with a big crowd.

[OrchidBlossom]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I actually am surprised. It's probably wishful thinking, but I'm disappointed. He's so young. It wouldn't be better if the girl was younger. 

I wish them happiness, but I really think this is going to rough. They're young and not really prepared for life. JB and Michelle really did a number on these kids. I'm sure her parents aren't great, but at least they have a more managable family size. 

I'm deeply disappointed. Just not surprised. I expected them to disappoint me, and they came through. 

They're kids, they don't really know better. The parents allowing it makes me angry, though.

[Aine]

1 hour ago, Befuddled said:

No matter the 75% capacity rules in Texas or what the families decide to do regarding a full on wedding, it's really not fair for TLC to put the film crews at risk.  It's one thing for them to film a few people at a time and totally another with a big crowd.

I don't think TLC will do it. I don't think any people in their right mind who are in the film crew would be willing to take the risk around hundreds of people who almost definitely haven't been following mask mandates and have been traveling to Texas and out and about like normal, especially with all the exposure the fundies will have over the next few months due to the holiday season. Add onto that, TLC will not want to make themselves the target of lawsuits from their crew or the families of their crew if someone becomes gravely ill and/or dies. They'd need to put them in full PPE, and there are too many health professionals who need that PPE right now.

That's why I think if they get married before the pandemic is mostly over, it will be small and private, and follow social distancing so it can be filmed. Extended family besides maybe the Duggar and Spivey parents all on Zoom with each family filming themselves being all adoring and cute watching the wedding from their homes. Then a big party/reception when things are safer. They need content for the next season that can be safely filmed and still draw in viewers. Bonus points PR-wise if it's also showing a responsible gathering. Bonus points for Justin and Claire if they can bang before the end of the pandemic.