Justin and Claire: Woe Is Me

[Dandruff]

Does anyone know, off the top of your head, whose buddy team Justin was on?  I'm pretty sure it was Jessa or Jinger since Jana had Jackson and Jill had James on theirs.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, Aine said:

I don't think TLC will do it. I don't think any people in their right mind who are in the film crew would be willing to take the risk around hundreds of people who almost definitely haven't been following mask mandates and have been traveling to Texas and out and about like normal, especially with all the exposure the fundies will have over the next few months due to the holiday season. Add onto that, TLC will not want to make themselves the target of lawsuits from their crew or the families of their crew if someone becomes gravely ill and/or dies. They'd need to put them in full PPE, and there are too many health professionals who need that PPE right now.

That's why I think if they get married before the pandemic is mostly over, it will be small and private, and follow social distancing so it can be filmed. Extended family besides maybe the Duggar and Spivey parents all on Zoom with each family filming themselves being all adoring and cute watching the wedding from their homes. Then a big party/reception when things are safer. They need content for the next season that can be safely filmed and still draw in viewers. Bonus points PR-wise if it's also showing a responsible gathering. Bonus points for Justin and Claire if they can bang before the end of the pandemic.

Why are you assuming that the film crew is taking this seriously? The Duggars have always demanded that they be like-minded individuals. Lots of Americans are going to work and interacting with the public with just a cloth mask. That being said, I agree that the wedding will be in Texas, will be small by Duggar standards, and will be followed by an enormous reception in Arkansas post-pandemic. Probably David Waller will officiate. Will even the pandemic keep JRod away? Stay tuned! 

[Ticklish]

21 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Does anyone know, off the top of your head, whose buddy team Justin was on?  I'm pretty sure it was Jessa or Jinger since Jana had Jackson and Jill had James on theirs.

He was on Jessa's team. Poor kid used to take care of Jordyn too, when Jessa didn't. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I could sed TLC wanting to play up the Covid safety of this wedding.

Perhaps a drive in wedding of some sort? The wedding and first kiss could be projected on a big screen as guests watch from their cars. Disposable 'Mr and Mrs Duggar' masks with the couple's picture on them could be given as a wedding favour. The other Howlers could deploy drones to deliver half melted ice cream and wedding cake to the guests. Claire's dress could be a southern belle hoop skirt number (six feet social distance, y'all!), instead of 'Just Married', the getaway vehicle says 'Quarantine Buddies For Life'.

Edited November 18, 2020 by VeryNikeSeamstress

[Aine]

45 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Why are you assuming that the film crew is taking this seriously?

I guess because I've never got the impression the entire film crew is like-minded because they seem to often film the Duggar family to accentuate the peculiarities of how they live, and because other reality TV shows filmed in similar formats have also resorted to limited in-person filming and gone to the subjects filming themselves with the guidance of producers and film crews remotely. The newest season of '16 and Pregnant' is a good example of this that made that transition very obvious. I know that's MTV but still.

A lot of TV shows, whether drama or reality, shut down filming for most of the year due to the virus and some have only restarted filming with major changes to the format (e.g. actors wearing masks and/or limited actors in scene), and widespread testing on set. Even if all the crew are wearing KN95s (non-medical grade but approved by CDC testing as hitting 95% filtration, as medical grade N95s are nearly impossible to get your hands on, nor should non-medical professionals be getting those) there is still a risk when you're knowingly putting yourself around potentially hundreds of people not wearing a mask or on the whole, wearing them inappropriately.

Your mask mostly protects other people, so just the crew wearing mask does not protect them. I can't see a large TV network putting their reputation at risk, especially again for the Duggars after the Josh fiasco, and putting themselves at legal risk should the crew get sick, just to film this wedding of one of the howlers that few have any strong need to watch.

Filming the Duggars is not essential work, unlike the people putting themselves at risk at grocery stores or in hospitals and the like. Essential workers have less legal recourse if they get sick than people in non-essential professions. It sucks but unless there is gross negligence on the part of the employer, it's how it works in most states. That is especially repugnant when it's employees who can't afford not to work like non-managerial staff at grocery stores.

[Mama Mia]

25 minutes ago, Aine said:

I guess because I've never got the impression the entire film crew is like-minded because they seem to often film the Duggar family to accentuate the peculiarities of how they live, and because other reality TV shows filmed in similar formats have also resorted to limited in-person filming and gone to the subjects filming themselves with the guidance of producers and film crews remotely. The newest season of '16 and Pregnant' is a good example of this that made that transition very obvious. I know that's MTV but still.

A lot of TV shows, whether drama or reality, shut down filming for most of the year due to the virus and some have only restarted filming with major changes to the format (e.g. actors wearing masks and/or limited actors in scene), and widespread testing on set. Even if all the crew are wearing KN95s (non-medical grade but approved by CDC testing as hitting 95% filtration, as medical grade N95s are nearly impossible to get your hands on, nor should non-medical professionals be getting those) there is still a risk when you're knowingly putting yourself around potentially hundreds of people not wearing a mask or on the whole, wearing them inappropriately.

Your mask mostly protects other people, so just the crew wearing mask does not protect them. I can't see a large TV network putting their reputation at risk, especially again for the Duggars after the Josh fiasco, and putting themselves at legal risk should the crew get sick, just to film this wedding of one of the howlers that few have any strong need to watch.

Filming the Duggars is not essential work, unlike the people putting themselves at risk at grocery stores or in hospitals and the like. Essential workers have less legal recourse if they get sick than people in non-essential professions. It sucks but unless there is gross negligence on the part of the employer, it's how it works in most states. That is especially repugnant when it's employees who can't afford not to work like non-managerial staff at grocery stores.

I don’t know. You have good points, but many shows are filming again, until a few days ago California amusement parks opened up for a couple of weeks, with ride operators, retail workers etc. My understanding for my local park is they had to take reservations, limited the number to 300, two hours max. masks required, etc . I could see them doing something like that And having it filmed for TLC couple hundred people, maybe outdoors, some attempt at distancing, maybe each household sitting at a separate table..... If TLC isn’t filming I’m betting they’ll just do the full on crowd, inside. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I'm deeply disappointed. Just not surprised. I expected them to disappoint me, and they came through. 

They're kids, they don't really know better. The parents allowing it makes me angry, though.

I'd be really surprised if the parents merely "allowed" it. I have no doubt that they have encouraged it.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they found Justin a courtship. There are rumors he wasn't getting along with JB and Michelle. They could be rumors, but it seems the other brothers they tried to marry off were Josh and Josiah. 

At the very least they're probably thrilled. The only things JB and Michelle seem to care about are keeping the kids fundie and increasing the number of grandkids.  

[OrchidBlossom]

5 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'd be really surprised if the parents merely "allowed" it. I have no doubt that they have encouraged it.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they found Justin a courtship. There are rumors he wasn't getting along with JB and Michelle. They could be rumors, but it seems the other brothers they tried to marry off were Josh and Josiah. 

At the very least they're probably thrilled. The only things JB and Michelle seem to care about are keeping the kids fundie and increasing the number of grandkids.  

That's a good point, allowed doesn't put enough blame on them.

[kmachete14]

Think of your excitement at age 18 to leave your house and go to college, or move in to an apartment with your friends as roommates, or get a job to save up to backpack around Europe. The feeling that you’re really growing up and life is really happening for you is indescribable. You can finally call your own shots, you aren’t under mommy and daddy’s rules, you can test the waters with new behaviors and activities. 
 

well for fundie teens, that’s marriage. It’s the only thing they have to give them that same feeling of responsibility, and independence. Especially for the girls — finally they get to run their own household, implement their own routines, etc. Sex is big but there’s so much more to it than that. Boys are accepted as men, can manage their own households, have someone to actually confide in toxic masculinity be damned, etc. 
 

Honestly if I was a fundie maiden I’d pray every day to be married at 18. 
 

So sad their worldview is so limited that marriage is the only outlet. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

This is about whether they will get married soon. Most of the last season of Counting On was events that happened before the pandemic. The two episodes they did during the Pandemic had the Duggars pretending to social distance. Based on last season (which aired this summer) TLC doesn't mind filming the Duggars duing a Pandemic, but TLC wants them to pretend to follow the rules. 

TLC has presented the Duggars as wacky and different, but they also protect them and try to show them in a good light.  

Then there's a big difference between filming day to day interactions in the family and filming hundreds (thousands?) of people gathered inside a church with no masks.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Bluebirdbluebell

[Bobology]

8 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'd be really surprised if the parents merely "allowed" it. I have no doubt that they have encouraged it.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they found Justin a courtship. There are rumors he wasn't getting along with JB and Michelle. They could be rumors, but it seems the other brothers they tried to marry off were Josh and Josiah. 

Not getting along with JB's authority is a valid reason to leave, which means marriage. Justin probably watched JD living at home all those years (we assume JD mostly lived at home) and thought he, Justin, couldn't take it for 5 or 10 ten more years. Add to it how Justin has been accepted into and apparently loved by the Spivey family and Justin is READY. Here's to Justin remaining in Texas after marriage.
 

[marmalade]

16 hours ago, Bobology said:

Not getting along with JB's authority is a valid reason to leave, which means marriage. Justin probably watched JD living at home all those years (we assume JD mostly lived at home) and thought he, Justin, couldn't take it for 5 or 10 ten more years. Add to it how Justin has been accepted into and apparently loved by the Spivey family and Justin is READY. Here's to Justin remaining in Texas after marriage.
 

Justin joined David Waller's church, so it's safe to assume that he'll be moving to TX for good soon (if he hasn't already). His limited skill set actually aligns with Mr. Spivey's construction business. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I don't blame Justin for wanting away from JB and Michelle, he never got any attention off his parents since he was handed over to sister mum Jessa as soon as Michelle was bored of him and had a new baby to focus on. While I do find Hilary overbearing, she seems to be caring for Justin a lot better than Michelle ever has in the past year. I would be surprised if he moved back to Arkanas when he appears to have settled in Texas. 

[artdecades]

Can someone explain the rumors about Justin not getting along with the family?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 11/17/2020 at 8:22 PM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Why are you assuming that the film crew is taking this seriously? The Duggars have always demanded that they be like-minded individuals. Lots of Americans are going to work and interacting with the public with just a cloth mask. That being said, I agree that the wedding will be in Texas, will be small by Duggar standards, and will be followed by an enormous reception in Arkansas post-pandemic. Probably David Waller will officiate. Will even the pandemic keep JRod away? Stay tuned! 

I was going to say something similar, these aren't Hollywood film crews this is a crew from NW Arkansas, and as you said JB & M insisted they be like minded or at the very least not be gay, or vocal about not being in a cult. 

JRod doesn't believe in the pandemic, her Lord told her it was "fake news". 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, artdecades said:

Can someone explain the rumors about Justin not getting along with the family?

I haven't heard this rumor, but it would make a lot of sense as to why he's been living in TX since he was 16/17 yrs old.

Maybe he's non neurotypical and  the noise and chaos of the TTH makes him CRAZY. I couldn't stand living there, all that noise would send me into loony land, I can barely tolerate my own house somedays and there are only 3 occasionally 4 of us living there. 

Or I can see him being resentful of being #???? )hell I can't remember what number kid he is) of 20. Maybe he doesn't like being stacked like cord wood in triple bunkbeds with 8 other brothers? There are so many reasons to not like that family or really like being IN that family. 

[Tangy Bee]

Well I guess it's hard to say, "goodnight" to someone you love and watch them go to their room without you. Sounds like Justin has more privacy than he did sleeping at home. I'm still waiting for the whole story. Did he move to Texas to get to know Claire better or learn more construction from her dad? He was only 16 when all this started, so that means he needed JB's permission. Is Mrs Spivey sincerely sweet or is she kissing ass because his family is famous??

[just_ordinary]

On 11/16/2020 at 9:23 PM, nst said:

well if whoever this Hilary is she  has been planning this for a while the last 20 years at least, that means 2 years before justin was conceived she was planning on having the 2 year old marry the next duggar.

sounds contrived and insane and just like a Jill thing

i vote for this December 25 at 6pm

The 24th could be a thing, but it’s pretty close. I think using a very popular holiday can make it difficult in terms of guest attendance if you want a big party. I think her family might put some weight into it- especially as they have both of them under their roof. Maybe they will encourage a longer than three months engagement? I mean they are basically already living together. Engagement or not, they cannot get in a situation with more temptation than already. But maybe not? 

On 11/18/2020 at 2:05 AM, OrchidBlossom said:

I'm deeply disappointed. Just not surprised. I expected them to disappoint me, and they came through. 

They're kids, they don't really know better. The parents allowing it makes me angry, though.

They are adults. In reality it doesn’t matter what their parents allow. Those cultists have build up a serious mindset of dependency and obedience. If the parents were against it they would listen. But yeah, those Fundies are only encouraging this. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, artdecades said:

Can someone explain the rumors about Justin not getting along with the family?

I know nothing.  Except that teen brothers close in age fight constantly. 

Maybe he and James were trying to kill each other?  Just a thought.  We really have no idea what goes on in that weird tinker toy dwelling. 

[Grace]

On 11/17/2020 at 9:22 PM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

 The Duggars have always demanded that they be like-minded individuals. 

Where did they say this? I'm pretty certain that some of the local people who have worked on the crew are not like-minded. Like....by a lot ?

[kmachete14]

One positive outcome for the Duggar grandchildren is that the children “adopted” by other families might see the perks of not having so many kids. Kendra’s family regularly goes on vacation, Lauren’s family was able to send the daughters to college, Abbie is educated, we already know how Dwreck and Jill have flown the coop, Jeremy loved “organized sports” travel teams, Austin’s family could go camping and adventuring, etc. So although Justin and Claire are young, Justin has been accepted into a smaller family with the perks of the parents having more love to go around. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

49 minutes ago, Grace said:

Where did they say this? I'm pretty certain that some of the local people who have worked on the crew are not like-minded. Like....by a lot ?

Apparently they had an openly gay crew member fired early on, and after that the production company gave them some approval, at least for crew members who interacted with their kids. Does anyone have sources or details? There certainly could be people in more distant production positions who held other views (as most people do).

[Four is Enough]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:49 PM, wendy-sparkles said:

I don't think JB actually helps them with housing that much, With the exception of Grandma Mary's rental house, . JD and Abby are in a trailer (which is obviously fine, but not what i'd think 'multimillionaire supports his kid' looks like),

They're all hamstrung by not being able to get a mortgage. 

Remember, John David has the planes to play with.

 

I agree with the second statement.

[Jana814]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Apparently they had an openly gay crew member fired early on, and after that the production company gave them some approval, at least for crew members who interacted with their kids.

I remember hearing that. I also felt that the crew members cared about the kids & the safety. Like when the Josh Ashley Madison scandal broke they seemed concerned about Anna’s welfare. 

[OrchidBlossom]

10 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

The 24th could be a thing, but it’s pretty close. I think using a very popular holiday can make it difficult in terms of guest attendance if you want a big party. I think her family might put some weight into it- especially as they have both of them under their roof. Maybe they will encourage a longer than three months engagement? I mean they are basically already living together. Engagement or not, they cannot get in a situation with more temptation than already. But maybe not? 

They are adults. In reality it doesn’t matter what their parents allow. Those cultists have build up a serious mindset of dependency and obedience. If the parents were against it they would listen. But yeah, those Fundies are only encouraging this. 

When I say "they're kids" I mean they are barely legal adults who have been pretty sheltered away from any free thinking or independent development who started courting with the mind to get engaged as minors and who got engaged very likely when at least one was technically still a minor.

I do understand that they are not legally children.