Joy & Austin 31: Adding Evelyn Mae

[hand holder]

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Does she not have a TV or computer? Had she never heard him speak? 

I have a tv, computer, apple watch, iphone, etc... I'm also probably closer to the girl's age here. I don't watch the news, I don't listen to the radio (just podcasts that interest me), and I don't use my computer to do things like watch/listen to politics. I personally chose to watch all of the debates from the primaries on, but my roommate (a year older than me) didn't watch them with me. We are both liberals (I'm more of a leftist) but I also surround myself with people who are liberal, not conservative. I can easily see how someone in my generation would do all of these things and be in a republican friend group. 

My dad is completely trapped in the 24 hour news cycle, as many others in his generation are. My mom was an anxious, obsessive mother and it was triggered by many of the missing children stories that became a part of the 24 hour news cycle as it was really beginning and picking up steam. It's not healthy and I chose not to participate in that. I get my news from The Daily podcast (by the NYT), NPR politics, and I listen to a far lest podcast as well because it aligns with my values. 

FWIW the last time I heard Turnip speak was in the last presidential debate (not the town halls). And that was intentional. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Does she not have a TV or computer? Had she never heard him speak? 

I'm constantly amazed at how ignorant people can be about the news current events and it is deliberate. I know several people who just don't want to hear it, I suppose it is easy to do when you live a life of upper middle class white privilege and don't care about anyone but your immediate circle of people.  

I'm surrounded by tumpers, in both my family and my ever shrinking circle of friends, I've lost 3 friends in the last 2 years one had been one of my BFFs for over 30 years, she became so toxic I had to cut off contact with her, the other two cut off contact w/ me because the didn't want to hear about things that mad them uncomfortable in their bubble of privilege.  

I had to turn the news off at the end of Sept and do everything in my power to avoid it, I was mostly off social media, the only place on line I'd go was here and some celebrity gossip sites and book and music sites. I only went to FB to go to a few private groups mostly to talk with my online BFFs I've known for 20 years when we all "met" when pregnant with our Feb 2000 babies. 

I've cried a couple times since the election was declared, over stories of people/kids who've been disowned by their parents for not voting for trump. One young woman is 20 yrs old and her parents literally threw her out  with nothing more than a suitcase of what she could pack in 5 minutes. She has no car, only a little bit of money, she's a college student and only has a seasonal job that starts next week, they threw her out the day the election was called for Biden. She's having to live with friends right now. My daughter is this girls age, I can't imagine calling my daughter a cunt and throwing her out because the guy I wanted for POTUS lost and she voted for the winner. Sure I'd be disappointed if she'd voted for trump, but I could NEVER throw her out, especially knowing she had no way to support herself right now and not knowing where she'd live. I've seen grown women crying on tiktok because parents have called and said she was dead to them for not supporting trump. I'm 50 years old and have voted in every POTUS election since 1988 and have NEVER EVER  heard of someone being disowned for not supporting a losing candidate, but here we are with cult45, and trump loves it, tearing families apart and being spiteful and cruel. 

[mango_fandango]

@allthegoodnamesrgone Holy shit, that is horrendous. Some parents are absolutely disgusting.

I hate the way politics is so hideously divided right now. The United States is going to take a hell of a long time to heal, if it ever will.
 

I am so lucky that my family aren’t divided politically. We don’t share the same views on everything, but we are all generally left-leaning. 

[mstee]

16 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I think it depends on how you look at rationality. If someone believes that Trump will be the best option for them voting for him is rational if you think that putting your own needs above community needs is the rational choice. I read this study a long time ago so excuse me for not having it to hand, though I'll see if I can drag it up, but it is a studied fact that conservative voters tend to place a larger emphasis on what is personally good for them, not out of lack of concern for others inherently (although in my personal opinion a lack of concern for others does drive many Trump voters), but often due to a belief that what is good for them will be good for others. Obviously this is a fallacy that ignores the many ways that someone can be disempowered socio-politically or can simply have divergent needs and interests from that particular voter, but it does explain how a Trump voter can be "rational" by their worldview.

To be extremely clear, I don't think there is any rational excuse for condoning racism, and do not consider voting for Trump a rational choice, I just can see how one could label a Trump voter rational and not be lying, but rather using a different perspective on what constitutes rationality.

Yes to this!! My co workers that voted for him all explained to me how it was best for them and their beliefs, but didn’t know what to say when I asked about what’s best for their neighbors (they are vocal Christians). Makes no sense to me. 

[Nothing if not critical]

1 hour ago, mstee said:

Yes to this!! My co workers that voted for him all explained to me how it was best for them and their beliefs, but didn’t know what to say when I asked about what’s best for their neighbors (they are vocal Christians). Makes no sense to me. 

Exactly. Plus, in many cases, their "rational decision" is not even what's best for themselves in the long run.

Sure, they might be able to keep their job in fossil fuels industries. But climate change is going to affect us all, and besides, those jobs are going to be redundant at some point. Change is going to happen, whether they are trying to stop it or not.

If their country is really taken over by white supremacists and anti-democratic forces, they're probably not going to like it much either (if they're indeed "not racist"). It's a bit like that Bonhoeffer quote that the fundies love to abuse - by the time they're coming for you, it's going to be too late to protest.

If they consistently put their own needs above their community's, soon there'll be no community left to speak of - and that's going to harm them, too. Rational thought, in my definition, also includes thinking above and beyond your immediate concerns - to listen to reason, and not just to your lizard brain. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

Exactly. Plus, in many cases, their "rational decision" is not even what's best for themselves in the long run.

Sure, they might be able to keep their job in fossil fuels industries. But climate change is going to affect us all, and besides, those jobs are going to be redundant at some point. Change is going to happen, whether they are trying to stop it or not.

If their country is really taken over by white supremacists and anti-democratic forces, they're probably not going to like it much either (if they're indeed "not racist"). It's a bit like that Bonhoeffer quote that the fundies love to abuse - by the time they're coming for you, it's going to be too late to protest.

If they consistently put their own needs above their community's, soon there'll be no community left to speak of - and that's going to harm them, too. Rational thought, in my definition, also includes thinking above and beyond your immediate concerns - to listen to reason, and not just to your lizard brain. 

And the number of people who don’t understand: when all of us do better, society IS better. When all of have affordable healthcare, the community on the whole, IS healthier. Giving billionaires all the breaks (and money that they do not put back into the economy), does NOT make society better. 

[OrchidBlossom]

5 hours ago, mstee said:

Yes to this!! My co workers that voted for him all explained to me how it was best for them and their beliefs, but didn’t know what to say when I asked about what’s best for their neighbors (they are vocal Christians). Makes no sense to me. 

Many people don't quite understand that their best interests may have little to nothing in common with the best interests of those around them, they assume their best interests are the best interests of society. I didn't find the exact study I was referring to but I did find this abstract of a study I'm considering emailing the authors to get a copy so of because I would like to read it to see if it mirrors the findings of the study I'm thinking of:  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238293664_Attitudes_of_the_selfless_Explaining_political_orientation_with_altruism

The abstract indicates that their research did corroborate a stronger motivation of altruism in left leaning views. Having not read the study I am not backing the results or certain of how it was drawn or anything, but my cursory look around couldn't find the study I am thinking of and I thought people might be interested in this result. I am always cautious to share these sort of studies as I don't think left-wing voters should get complacent about their role in achieving social justice and equity, and I don't want to demonize all conservatives either. But it is worth discussing. 

And as many have mentioned, conservative voters are often not voting in their best interest at all, even if they think they are.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

According the their insta stories, today was opening day of rifle hunting season in OK, and Joy & Austin are out hunting.  I know for many hunting practically a religion, and if Joy enjoys doing such a "manly" activity I'm glad that Austin allows (I FUCKING hate that I have to say that) her to do it.  Sounds like hell on earth to me, but I know so many people that go every chance they get during the season, I know folks who do bow hunting then rifle hunting, hunting dear, pheasant, turkey, elk, moose.  I know lots here find it barbaric, but as long as they are eating what they kill its all good IMO. 

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

According the their insta stories, today was opening day of rifle hunting season in OK, and Joy & Austin are out hunting.  I know for many hunting practically a religion, and if Joy enjoys doing such a "manly" activity I'm glad that Austin allows (I FUCKING hate that I have to say that) her to do it.  Sounds like hell on earth to me, but I know so many people that go every chance they get during the season, I know folks who do bow hunting then rifle hunting, hunting dear, pheasant, turkey, elk, moose.  I know lots here find it barbaric, but as long as they are eating what they kill its all good IMO. 

In general I think people (Americans in particular but I'm just more familiar with their consumption habits) should consume less meat (for health and environmental reasons both, I'm a dedicated omnivore but I've noticed so many people think all meals need meat and that's not true and it can cause over hunting/over meat farming/etc) but if people are eating a reasonable amount of hunted meat, I'm more okay with that, certainly, than sport or trophy hunting (which horrifies me). I love archery but don't think I could stomach hunting even with a bow or something. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Adding more vegetarian meals into our rotation has been a bit of an uphill battle with my husband the past few years but we're making good progress. I also think we could be healthier and more environmentally conscious if we ate less meat, although I love it.

[Glasgowghirl]

I personally wouldn't want to hunt but have no issue with people hunting if they actually eat the animal they killed. 

[Gobsmacked]

On 8/28/2020 at 7:17 PM, neurogirl said:

@SorenaJ My maternal grandfather's beloved sister has Rae in her name. My mother's middle name is Rae, and her sister also has a version of Rae in her name. My middle name was almost Rae. If I had a daughter, I was absolutely going to use Rae as her middle name, especially since I want to honor my mother but her first name sounds really awkward as a middle name.

Then Carlin named her baby Layla Rae and multiple people expressed the same opinion you did as a "basic, filler" middle name. And it actually made me question using Rae since I have been thinking about children's names for eleventy years and I don't want people to think I didn't put effort in. 

But Rae is actually very meaningful for my family. 

(of course, all the girls' names my husband and I agree on are __ra names - think Terra, Lara...which might be a mouthful with Rae, even as "basic" as it is!)

Rae is a very popular name in the Scottish Highlands for women born pre 1980. I like it. 
I worked with two Mays years ago. Both lovely people. A family friend had a great Aunt named May. She was 98 when she died. She knitted socks and made bread into her 90s. Her eye sight started to fail sadly. 

[LillyP]

As someone who comes from a hunting family, and most of the guys I know hunt, I honestly don't know any hunters who doen't typically eat what they kill or at least have someone specific in mind they give it to. Also the vast majority of hunters are VERY specific about their kill - they just aren't out there blasting everything that walks in front of their stand. My husband hunts, and while he enjoys duck hunting he rarely goes because duck is the one thing he thinks is too game-y tasting so he only goes duck hunting when he has someone to give the ducks to that he knows will eat them. I on the other hand love duck, but obviously can't eat enough to make it worthwhile to keep it all.

[mpheels]

3 hours ago, LillyP said:

As someone who comes from a hunting family, and most of the guys I know hunt, I honestly don't know any hunters who doen't typically eat what they kill or at least have someone specific in mind they give it to. Also the vast majority of hunters are VERY specific about their kill - they just aren't out there blasting everything that walks in front of their stand. My husband hunts, and while he enjoys duck hunting he rarely goes because duck is the one thing he thinks is too game-y tasting so he only goes duck hunting when he has someone to give the ducks to that he knows will eat them. I on the other hand love duck, but obviously can't eat enough to make it worthwhile to keep it all.

Same here. I have a lot of friends and family who hunt, and all either eat or give away everything they take. At least in the southeast, hunting is really important part of environmental management. Humans are the primary predator for deer in many parts of the US, and have been since before European colonization. As far as we know, Joy and Austin follow all the rules/regulations for hunting, which means they are hunting as much as has been deemed safe for the wild population per game wardens, who are generally big on wildlife conservation.

[OrchidBlossom]

17 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Adding more vegetarian meals into our rotation has been a bit of an uphill battle with my husband the past few years but we're making good progress. I also think we could be healthier and more environmentally conscious if we ate less meat, although I love it.

I love meat as well, I actually just love most food. I've gotten really into cooking with beyond meat and tofu products in the last year, which helps. I'd say I go without meat two or three days a week, and on days I do eat meat I usually eat it with one meal (occasionally two if I have a deli sandwich for lunch). Dairy products are a biggg part of my diet but I've started to embrace plant based milks recently as well.

And I do try to source my food from local farms and stuff when I can. Making ethical choices is hard! (first world complaints over here)

[irish_dancing_canadian]

Holy twins

 

[Nefernandes15]

1 hour ago, irish_dancing_canadian said:

Holy twins

 

Johannah is getting so weird looking!

Oh my!! Not in a bad way, it wasn't the right choice of words! Awkard teen years, not that's she's ugly or something!

 

I'm sorry

Edited November 23, 2020 by Nefernandes15

[front hugs > duggs]

I also see a ton of Jana there in that specific picture.

[Glasgowghirl]

4 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I also see a ton of Jana there in that specific picture.

Yes Johannah does look like Jana here, she looks so grown up now. 

[SorenaJ]

I think Johannah looks like Justin and Joy. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

She's making a bit of a silly face, but in my awkward tween years I would have loved to look as pretty as her.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Jana, Joy & Johanna all have a strong resemblance with each other & each also has a resemblance to another sibling.   

Edited November 23, 2020 by allthegoodnamesrgone

[EmmieJ]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:15 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've lost 3 friends in the last 2 years one had been one of my BFFs for over 30 years, she became so toxic I had to cut off contact with her,

I had to cut off contact with one of my best friends too - and it still hurts.  I met her when she was a single mom raising two kids so I saw her kids grow up and become parents themselves.  She was the first person to learn I was pregnant with my son and threw my baby shower.  We've been through so much together, so when I saw her slipping over into Trumperism, I didn't want to believe it.  So *hug* to you - I know how sad it is to have to say goodbye to a friend.

[HereticHick]

46 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I had to cut off contact with one of my best friends too - and it still hurts.  I met her when she was a single mom raising two kids so I saw her kids grow up and become parents themselves.  She was the first person to learn I was pregnant with my son and threw my baby shower.  We've been through so much together, so when I saw her slipping over into Trumperism, I didn't want to believe it.  So *hug* to you - I know how sad it is to have to say goodbye to a friend.

I had to do the same thing with one of my closest friends/former flatmate.  It was before the election, when she started writing long email screeds justifying the Confederate States of America--even though she is mixed race. ?   I called her out on it (we are both mixed race, but some of our white ancestors fought for the Confederacy)  and she cut my off. Even started returning holiday cards from me.   I suspect that she voted for Trump.  I think about her, or see a card or gift that would be perfect for her, and it hurts.

But as long as she keeps justifying slavery, I wouldn't reconcile with her, even if she reached out today.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

I had to cut off contact with one of my best friends too - and it still hurts.  I met her when she was a single mom raising two kids so I saw her kids grow up and become parents themselves.  She was the first person to learn I was pregnant with my son and threw my baby shower.  We've been through so much together, so when I saw her slipping over into Trumperism, I didn't want to believe it.  So *hug* to you - I know how sad it is to have to say goodbye to a friend.

We became friends in 6th grade, she's always been uptight & pretty my way or the highway, but we did have a lot in common otherwise & I'm generally pretty easy going. I had kids and stopped being such a push over & that drove her nuts that she couldn't push me to to agree w/ her. I realize now, looking back and about 2 yrs of no contact, she was always narcissistic and toxic, and that is on having a narcissistic toxic parents and not realizing you shouldn't let people treat you that way.

But yeah, it still sucks, it is almost like they've died. A song will come on the radio or a movie will pop up and you want to call/text this person and laugh. You'll see something/someone that set you off to a fit of giggles but you can't call and talk about it. I'm mostly mad at myself for allowing it to go on so long, I should have cut off contact w/ her 25 years ago  after we were roommates for a year, she was MISERABLE to live with, nothing like having to walk on eggshells in your own place because your roommate is so unbending in everything.