Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[TuringMachine]

10 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

I didn't say if you take a random public school student and compare them to a random home schooled student that the public school student would be miles ahead. That would be absurd. What I said was that Israel who is one of 2 kids, has a father with an actual college education, and is going to a good public is going to quickly out pace his cousins who are one of an ever growing amount of children and are being taught by their mothers who barely have a middle school education themselves or by Ben in a group of multiple aged children. We've seen what Duggar education is. We've seen teenaged James doing basic multiplication, adult Joy not know what the 'x' means, and who can forget the infamous bankruptcy lesson. And you can't possibly tell me that Spurgeon is going to get lots of 1 on 1 time while Jessa is wrangling two other small children and in all likelihood pregnant again soon. 

[just_ordinary]

It’s so interesting that teachers seem to be responsible for the utensils of the children in other countries. Here the school gives the room, furniture l, playground stuff, chalk(?) and books. With the new whole-day-school concept (before it ended sometimes around lunch time) they also provide a cafeteria and obviously food and drinks.

Teachers bring stuff to decorate their desk (if they have their own classroom) and the rooms. Sometimes with the help of their pupils and their parents. 
But all pencils, notebooks, colouring stuff is bought by the families for their own child. It is a massive expense, even if you pick the cheapest options. But it seems to be possible, and if not they just work with what was possible.
There is a massive criticism how much 1st graders have on their list as supplies. Maybe one type of colouring pencils could be enough for the first year? Do they really all need their own glue stick and scissors? I know the pandemic changes things but before there was no need. 
I think in Scandinavia schools provide way more in comparison, but I don’t think their teachers would have to top up an allowance from their own purse.

 

[Ali]

22 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

Socioeconomic status is the best indicator of educational performance.

You cannot compare children whose parents who have the ability to homeschool properly (not the Duggar SOTDRT) with the children whose parents have to send them to a "difficult" public school.

Many of these types of students have faced things most can't even begin to understand. Some have to face many barriers just to obtain a high school diploma. Some of these "difficult" schools are all black, so the world "difficult" seems quite judgmental to me towards those facing racial barriers that are out of there control.

I recommend educating yourself about adverse childhood experiences and what kind of lifetime impact it can have. Teachers educating students with high ACE scores have a very difficult job and have to spend a great deal of time building relationships before the child lets down the barrier. No teacher will be able to reach every student. Here is a link about ACES:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/index.html

There have been studies that compared demographics of home schoolers and public schoolers. When the demographics are similar, there is no significant difference between the two groups. I remember a study about SAT scores and I could not find it with the limited searching I just did. I did find a abstract of a journal article and this blog summarizes the journal. I do not have access to the full article, so I cannot vouch for its accuracy.

https://icher.org/blog/?p=3711

Quote

Summary: Yu, Sackett, and Kuncel are from the Department of Psychology at the University of Minnesota. In this article they examine the college performance of 732 homeschooled students to discover whether high school grades and standardized test scores are predictive of their college grades and retention. Then they compare the homeschooling group to a demographically-matched group of students who graduated from traditional schools.

Previous studies on postsecondary academic outcomes have found that homeschoolers tend to perform above-average. However, this is misleading because their families also tend to be better-educated and wealthier than the average non-homeschooling family.

Quote

When comparing homeschoolers to the full sample of traditional students without controlling for any demographics, homeschool students had, on average, a higher high school GPA, a higher SAT score, and a higher first-year of college GPA. However, they also had a higher socio-economic status, and there were no differences in college retention.

When the 732 homeschooled students were compared to a sample of traditionally schooled students with comparable SES profile, high school GPA, and SAT score, homeschooled students appeared to show no differences in their first year of college GPA nor in their retention.

When the Dillard's enrolled Israel, some members found out that he is in an excellent school district.

[purple_summer]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:12 PM, neuroticcat said:

Right. Not saying they succeeded. ?

honestly the ATI character stuff is so weird. I remember in my days flirting with fundiedom I got the ATI character definition sheet Michelle recommends. It should have been red flags all over but the definitions were so tortured and off.

https://atii.org/family/curriculum/character/

This reminds me of something we used (for discipleship, not homeschooling)

Spoiler

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by purple_summer

[HermioneSparrow]

On 8/26/2020 at 2:21 AM, DalmatianCat said:

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

Sure, the "wa-la" girl is going to homeschool her son and growing brood better and outpace Izzy's good public school education. ?

[DalmatianCat]

10 hours ago, Ali said:

Socioeconomic status is the best indicator of educational performance.

You cannot compare children whose parents who have the ability to homeschool properly (not the Duggar SOTDRT) with the children whose parents have to send them to a "difficult" public school.

Many of these types of students have faced things most can't even begin to understand. Some have to face many barriers just to obtain a high school diploma. Some of these "difficult" schools are all black, so the world "difficult" seems quite judgmental to me towards those facing racial barriers that are out of there control.

I am so, so, so, sorry you found term “difficult” offensive! Not my intention at all! I apologize! I can definitely see how you misconstrued my use of it, but I was referring to the fact that some schools are just more difficult to teach at. I don’t know many teachers who would disagree with that (and I know many teachers and some of them have left schools because it was too difficult for them). It’s not the fault of the kids at all! It just is more difficult for teachers to teach kids who don’t have help at home because their parents are working multiple jobs to survive, kids who don’t have beds to sleep in, kids who have food insecurity, kids who are constantly moving between relatives, etc. Just because a school is difficult to teach at does not mean those kids are not worthy of the best education. Teaching at those schools can be just as much a calling as job. It was definitely very kind of you to curate all those links (sometime when I have more time I’ll try to get back to them and read over them), but I’m very well aware of the childhood traumas that can make school hard for children who are minorities and of a lower socioeconomic status...it’s why my family packs backpacks of food thats distributed by school counselors to send home to kids who don’t have any other option of food over the weekends, it’s why our community builds beds for kids who sleep on the floor, and it’s why we work with families to give them support so they can have help before their children end up in foster care. 

My main point was your exact same first sentence, which you just listed much more succinctly and eloquently then I did...socioeconomic status is the biggest indicator of educational performance. If Israel does well in school it will have way more to do with the fact that he has a stable home life and (just guessing here) two smart parents who value education than because they chose public school vs. homeschool. Some of the homeschool bashing just gets so ridiculous and the comment about Israel (a Kindergartner!) passing Mackenzie (a ten year-old) by the end of this year is just absurd. 

[Ali]

17 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I am so, so, so, sorry you found term “difficult” offensive! Not my intention at all! I apologize! I can definitely see how you misconstrued my use of it, but I was referring to the fact that some schools are just more difficult to teach at. I don’t know many teachers who would disagree with that (and I know many teachers and some of them have left schools because it was too difficult for them). It’s not the fault of the kids at all! It just is more difficult for teachers to teach kids who don’t have help at home because their parents are working multiple jobs to survive, kids who don’t have beds to sleep in, kids who have food insecurity, kids who are constantly moving between relatives, etc. Just because a school is difficult to teach at does not mean those kids are not worthy of the best education. Teaching at those schools can be just as much a calling as job. It was definitely very kind of you to curate all those links (sometime when I have more time I’ll try to get back to them and read over them), but I’m very well aware of the childhood traumas that can make school hard for children who are minorities and of a lower socioeconomic status...it’s why my family packs backpacks of food thats distributed by school counselors to send home to kids who don’t have any other option of food over the weekends, it’s why our community builds beds for kids who sleep on the floor, and it’s why we work with families to give them support so they can have help before their children end up in foster care. 

My main point was your exact same first sentence, which you just listed much more succinctly and eloquently then I did...socioeconomic status is the biggest indicator of educational performance. If Israel does well in school it will have way more to do with the fact that he has a stable home life and (just guessing here) two smart parents who value education than because they chose public school vs. homeschool. Some of the homeschool bashing just gets so ridiculous and the comment about Israel (a Kindergartner!) passing Mackenzie (a ten year-old) by the end of this year is just absurd. 

Thank you for clearing things up about "difficult" schools.

The homeschool bashing is not all homeschooling. It is SOTDRT homeschooling. Many of the families we talk about here do a horrible job at homeschooling and I would put the Duggars in that category. I am not sure how you could do a good job homeschooling 19 children. When Zsu had far less children, she seemed to do a job. It seems like she has given up now and does the bare minimum. 

JRod looked at how many pages were in the workbook and divided it by 180 to plan out the school year. She posted about one of her sons hiding in his room late at night working in his algebra math. "Algebra math" is her words not mine. Those kids do not have a proper school space or parental support. Her son, Timothy, was unprepared for college and likely poorly performed at two different colleges.

Some members were homeschooled with some of the curriculums used by some of these families and have explained how lacking it is.  Some of us, me included, have family members doing a horrible job with homeschooling. 

[fundiesarefascinating]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:21 PM, DalmatianCat said:

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

While I certainly agree that there are many, many parents who do an excellent job homeschooling their children and have academically advanced children ... I genuinely do not believe that any of the Duggar children who homeschool are going to fall into that category. 

Jessa (as one example) has, at best I would argue, a grade 5-6 level of basic education. Furthermore, she is not a teacher. Even with a heap of other children in his class Israel will be taught by someone who has actually trained to be a teacher, has a basic understanding of child development, teaching methods etc. 

In my opinion, a huge function of school is to provide students with an environment that is at least somewhat or attempts to be conducive to learning (quiet times, routines, a teacher who is teaching, reduced distractions). Jessa's children at home with an ever growing brood, on-going noise, a teacher who is constantly multitasking is going to impact even modest attempts to learn. 

Also worthwhile to consider what sort of intelligence we hope children develop? I mean it's great if Jessa has kids who excel at Math and Reading until grade 3 but honestly, I care much more deeply about developing emotional intelligence in children through friendship, cooperative play, conflict management, team work, empathy building, etc. Israel will be so much more advanced with his emotional intelligence by attending public school. He will have to learn to share with children who aren't his siblings, he won't always get his way, he will develop patience and an ability to understand the world through other perspectives (and not through "training"), he will have a more diverse set of friends which helps to develop empathy. So while I don't know about Israel "lapping his cousins" academically. I would be quite certain that he will be lapping his cousins, aunts, and uncles in emotional intelligence rather quickly. 

[TuringMachine]

48 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

Some of the homeschool bashing just gets so ridiculous and the comment about Israel (a Kindergartner!) passing Mackenzie (a ten year-old) by the end of this year is just absurd. 

That would be absurd. Good thing no one said that.

And I have done no homeschool bashing. I have only bashed the educational neglect of the Duggars.

Edited August 27, 2020 by TuringMachine

[Audrey2]

1 hour ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

Jessa (as one example) has, at best I would argue, a grade 5-6 level of basic education. Furthermore, she is not a teacher. Even with a heap of other children in his class Israel will be taught by someone who has actually trained to be a teacher, has a basic understanding of child development, teaching methods etc. 

Not only this, but the teacher has training, and probably experience in helping both students who are having difficulties with some of the concepts as well as the knowledge to help students excel, when school is easy for them. To be in a public school classroom, the teacher would have had practicums as an undergrad, culminating in a quarter or semester of student teaching, teamed up with a successful classroom teacher and monitored by university personnel. I'm thinking it was Jackson who we saw learning multiplication tables at an age where most are learning a higher level of math. In the public schools I've known, he would have had interventions in math and, if the interventions weren't working, he would have been tested for a learning disability. Non of that will happen at the Duggars SODRT.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Ali said:

Some members were homeschooled with some of the curriculums used by some of these families and have explained how lacking it is.

This.  Of all the fundies discussed here Cathy Arndt is the only one who home schooled so well her kids got as good an education, if not better, than in most schools.

But she used an academic curriculum and supplemented that things like the science museum, etc.  She also had them tested regularly to make sure they were working at or above grade level...and John even participated in some elite math competitions in his high school years.  I have no doubt all of her kids could have tested into college as easy, if not easier, than most high school graduates.

She's one out of how many fundies here?  Anna is barely competent to play spelling with refrigerator magnet letters much less teach to an adequate level.  You can't teach what you don't know and none of the Duggar kids whose education was from Michelle at the SOTDRT or worse, one of the older kids who graduated from the SOTDRT, has any business being in charge of a child's education.

The difference is Cathy not only used a proper curriculum, but she herself had enough of an education to know what to teach.  

[SassyPants]

I think before you can be at the very least an adequate home school teacher, one, if not both parents need to fully support, endorse and encourage learning and education. JB is actually anti-education. Remember the days when he would compare his success and out of pocket educational costs to those of educated folks? I do wonder what kind of student he was, likely a discouraged and challenged one. 
 

 

[Glasgowghirl]

My primary and High school did have things like pens, glue and crayons but a lot of people also brought their own stuff in as well because the school stuff wasn't always the best especially when it came to marker pens, they were often dried out because or had colours missing from the pack. 

[fundiesarefascinating]

58 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

Not only this, but the teacher has training, and probably experience in helping both students who are having difficulties with some of the concepts as well as the knowledge to help students excel, when school is easy for them. To be in a public school classroom, the teacher would have had practicums as an undergrad, culminating in a quarter or semester of student teaching, teamed up with a successful classroom teacher and monitored by university personnel. 

Completely agree! Thank you for adding in all of the specific professional training that teachers go through.

One other thing I would add, that makes a huge difference emotionally and academically is the potential for public school to teach children 'how to think' vs 'what to think'. There will be bias in all education systems and settings but I think public school plays an important role in exposing children to view points, politics, and values that may differ radically from their family of origin.  This encourages children to develop critical thinking skills, evaluate the things they see and hear. While they aren't obligated to believe or follow these alternate beliefs the exposure play an important role in developing bright, articulate children. Jessa's children will be taught what to think and to believe it unquestioned as none of the other "students" (ie. siblings) at Jessa's SOTDRT will bring differing opinions and none of the "teachers" (ie. Ben or Jessa) will present alternate views. 

[Meggo]

15 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

It’s so interesting that teachers seem to be responsible for the utensils of the children in other countries. Here the school gives the room, furniture l, playground stuff, chalk(?) and books. With the new whole-day-school concept (before it ended sometimes around lunch time) they also provide a cafeteria and obviously food and drinks.

Teachers bring stuff to decorate their desk (if they have their own classroom) and the rooms. Sometimes with the help of their pupils and their parents. 
But all pencils, notebooks, colouring stuff is bought by the families for their own child. It is a massive expense, even if you pick the cheapest options. But it seems to be possible, and if not they just work with what was possible.
There is a massive criticism how much 1st graders have on their list as supplies. Maybe one type of colouring pencils could be enough for the first year? Do they really all need their own glue stick and scissors? I know the pandemic changes things but before there was no need. 
I think in Scandinavia schools provide way more in comparison, but I don’t think their teachers would have to top up an allowance from their own purse.

 

A friend of mine has a daughter who is a first year teacher this year and just got a classroom assigned to her. So she posted something to FB (and her mom shared it out) about how she's a new teacher, just graduated and has no money to get her classroom ready for school and would everyone pitch in? 

Does not compute. I'm sure she's getting decoration type things - not out buying desks. But... doesn't her school pitch in for that? My son's (grade 2) school supply list wasn't crazy. Pencils, markers, colored pencils (guess who will be using last years), glue sticks, folders, paper, etc. Standard stuff. And I usually over buy when the teacher asks for dry erase markers (or Kleenex, or zip loc bags)  because I know teachers need extras and I know not every kid can afford school supplies. But...having to raise money for her classroom? That's not fair to any teacher - let alone a BRAND NEW ONE who is also likely paying off student loans and eating ramen.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Meggo said:

A friend of mine has a daughter who is a first year teacher this year and just got a classroom assigned to her. So she posted something to FB (and her mom shared it out) about how she's a new teacher, just graduated and has no money to get her classroom ready for school and would everyone pitch in? 

Does not compute. I'm sure she's getting decoration type things - not out buying desks. But... doesn't her school pitch in for that? My son's (grade 2) school supply list wasn't crazy. Pencils, markers, colored pencils (guess who will be using last years), glue sticks, folders, paper, etc. Standard stuff. And I usually over buy when the teacher asks for dry erase markers (or Kleenex, or zip loc bags)  because I know teachers need extras and I know not every kid can afford school supplies. But...having to raise money for her classroom? That's not fair to any teacher - let alone a BRAND NEW ONE who is also likely paying off student loans and eating ramen.

 

When my kids were school age the only thing we were asked to contribute to the classroom were boxes of Kleenex.  But my kids went to schools in fairly affluent school districts and I know teachers who worked in less funded districts that went way out of pocket for basic supplies for their classrooms.  

It really depends on the district.  Unfortunately here schools are funded by property taxes so some are extremely well funded and have excellent amenities and highly paid teachers, others don't have enough books let alone computers and such.  I am in a Chicago suburb and remember years back that some the Chicago Public Schools had broken windows, leaking roofs, and at times the kids had to wear coats in the classroom due to lack of working heat.  

As much as my children (and I as a child) benefited from this personally with highly ranked schools, it's just absolute bullshit that kids with less financial stability at home also have far fewer educational resources to break the cycle of poverty in some neighborhoods.  The whole funding system needs to be revamped to level the playing field.  

[Maggie Mae]

I went to a private school, and every year we got a list from the teacher with what, exactly, they wanted us to buy. It was always long and there were always footnotes like **NO TRAPPER KEEPERS** and super specific things - 4 solid color folders in these colors, this type of pen, this type of crayons. It was all our own personal stuff, but there was no lisa frank folder for me. Very depressing. And we weren't supposed to have certain things before certain years. I loved looking at all the supplies, only to find out that I couldn't have the unicorn pen or the pink folder. There was also stuff like "two boxes of tissues" as well. Eventually it turned into specific notebooks. I wanted a composition book so much. I also have hated wide rule paper since i was, like, 8. 

In high school, at least, they let us get our own stuff. Until I moved to a public school, where literally everything was provided. That was so weird for me. Then off to college where no one told us what to do, except some teachers allowed laptops and others didn't, some provided scantrons, others didn't, some classes required we buy specific composition sheets for tests, others didn't. Makes it harder to plan. 

[Four is Enough]

Oh, when all Four were in K-8 school: (It was a Catholic school)

I'd buy SO much in August before school started: PER CHILD: This was the donation to the classroom. My child got his/her own set of pens, pencils, paper, etc.

6 or 8 pack of tissues (repeated after Christmas break)

6 pack of bleach wipes (repeated after Christmas break)

2 or more sets of 24 crayons, or 2 or more sets of colored pencils

2 or more sets of 12 pencils

6 folders with holders for pages

ten pack of pens..

4 packages of looseleaf paper

6 packages of paper in tablets

4 highlighters

2 packs of dry erase markers

six glue sticks or a bottle of glue

There's probably more, but I remember stocking up on all of these, and then making a trip to BJs after Christmas to stock the classrooms up with more tissues and wipes. I'd also have purchased more pens, pencils, erasers, highlighters, etc., so that my kids would have a surplus at home to use. tissues, wipes, paper, pencils, pens, were requested. Thankfully, we were fortunate to be able to purchase these things and donate them.. (I worked at the school and we got a tuition break)  Although there was tuition, some families could barely afford that, let alone all the supplies and uniforms. I also spent time spiffing up uniforms for the used uniform sale, fixing buttons, zippers, trying to remove stains, etc..)

The teachers each had a locked closet in their coatroom, and things were kept in there.. out of sight.. because yes, things would be pilfered otherwise. Besides, you never want to show a kindergartner the 30 boxes of tissues available for their "ideas".. because they DO get ideas..

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Although there was tuition, some families could barely afford that, let alone all the supplies and uniforms.

Just out of curiosity aren't uniforms so much cheaper than having to keep them in regular school clothes?

I went to public school through junior high then went to boarding school which was private, but we didn't have uniforms just a strict dress code.  I can't imagine uniforms being anywhere near as expensive as keeping me in regular clothing was.

Hell, I wish I had a uniform now, if only to take away my daily dilemma of figuring out what to wear.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When my kids were school age the only thing we were asked to contribute to the classroom were boxes of Kleenex.  But my kids went to schools in fairly affluent school districts and I know teachers who worked in less funded districts that went way out of pocket for basic supplies for their classrooms.  

It really depends on the district.  Unfortunately here schools are funded by property taxes so some are extremely well funded and have excellent amenities and highly paid teachers, others don't have enough books let alone computers and such.  I am in a Chicago suburb and remember years back that some the Chicago Public Schools had broken windows, leaking roofs, and at times the kids had to wear coats in the classroom due to lack of working heat.  

As much as my children (and I as a child) benefited from this personally with highly ranked schools, it's just absolute bullshit that kids with less financial stability at home also have far fewer educational resources to break the cycle of poverty in some neighborhoods.  The whole funding system needs to be revamped to level the playing field.  

We contributed Kleenex and lunch baggies. Everything else belonged to him. This was 20 years ago and things might have changed but the district wasn't exactly poor, just middle class. 

[FrumperedCat]

55 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Just out of curiosity aren't uniforms so much cheaper than having to keep them in regular school clothes?

I went to public school through junior high then went to boarding school which was private, but we didn't have uniforms just a strict dress code.  I can't imagine uniforms being anywhere near as expensive as keeping me in regular clothing was.

Hell, I wish I had a uniform now, if only to take away my daily dilemma of figuring out what to wear.

Uniform can cost a lot more, as with a lot of them you have you have to go to a specific supplier which makes it a monopoly. The current cost of the uniform I wore is £100 a set, which is blazer, jumper and shirt. All branded and school specific. And as a growing teenager it can get pretty expensive having to move up sizes on a yearly basis. Then you have costs for sports kit for lessons too, all branded. At my school you'd even get in trouble if you didn't wear a regulation skirt, so pretty strict. This was for a state secondary school (grammar though).

Primary school uniform tends to be cheaper and a lot of it you can get from anywhere which makes it cheaper. You still have costs for a branded polo and branded sports kit though, and of course the constantly growing smart shoes required.

[Mrs Ms]

56 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Just out of curiosity aren't uniforms so much cheaper than having to keep them in regular school clothes?

I went to public school through junior high then went to boarding school which was private, but we didn't have uniforms just a strict dress code.  I can't imagine uniforms being anywhere near as expensive as keeping me in regular clothing was.

Hell, I wish I had a uniform now, if only to take away my daily dilemma of figuring out what to wear.

NZ here, so different to the US cost wise I’m sure.
Found out last month that the blazer for the Highschool my 11yo will probably go to costs NZ$270 (US$180). And then you have to get:

trousers  $70 ($45) 

shirt $45 ($30)

3pack of socks crew length $18 ($12) or over knee length $25 ($16)

vest $100 ($66) 

kilt $320 ($212)

shoes and whatever else I am forgetting. Most items you need more than one of. All for the start of year. Plus I assume a laptop or tablet.

As we buy second hand and no-brand stuff for our family this is more than I spend for the 5 of us spread out over a year! And this isn’t an expensive private school! 

[Maggie Mae]

The public schools in my area growing up had uniforms, it was black pants and a polo in a solid color depending on school. My school was the usual plaid skirt and button up, and sweater or navy pants and a button up with optional sweater/sweater vest/school logo fleece. They were ugly. High school had a dress code that was so strict, kids actually wanted uniforms back. 

[mpheels]

Kids also need multiple sets of uniform clothes since they wear it every day, plus the still need regular clothes for weekends, summer, school breaks...

[WiseGirl]

3 hours ago, Meggo said:

Does not compute. I'm sure she's getting decoration type things - not out buying desks. But... doesn't her school pitch in for that?

No, schools do not. It's why the Dollar Store items are purchased quickly. A new teacher will not have decorations,  a library or enough books for a book corner, materials for learning stations, the pocket things for morning meeting, manipulatives, etc. Unless the teacher before them retired and left bunches of things.

Typically you get a desk, chair, bookshelves, and basic (cheap) office supplies. Guess who provides the rest?  In my district we aren't allowed to ask parent/guardians to send in anything.  Not even Kleenex.