Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[HeartsAFundie]

Teachers buying out-of-pocket supplies or asking kids to help contribute to a community supply stash isn't a new thing.   When I taught for a brief period in the late 80s at a Catholic school, the teachers were given a $100 supply bonus each year to help defray any of our out-of-pocket supply costs.  I used to frequent a small teacher supply store and buy educational bingo games and decorations for my classroom as well as additional pencils and pens to help the kids out.   I also frequented yard sales and flea markets for extra reading books for my classroom.  The kids were responsible for most of their personal supplies like crayons, pencils, pens, etc.  The school supplied scissors as needed.  Each child brought in a box of tissues and they would be placed in the closet for community use and brought out when the box on my desk needed replacement; when the stash ran low, a notice would go out to the parents requesting another donated box.   And every Wednesday, the "school store"-consisting of the secretary pushing a cart loaded with basic supplies-would come to the classroom and the kids would have the opportunity to purchase with their own money whatever they wanted or needed.  

I compare that to when I was an elementary school student in the 70s and the public school I attended, although in a lower-income district, supplied all crayons, pencils, pens and tissues to its students.  Except for special art projects where we had to bring items like pie tins, tree branches and our own ornaments (to make Christmas trees mounted in Plaster of Paris as gifts to our parents-which my dad still has!)    I don't recall my family ever being mandated to purchase school supplies or anything special for me to bring in.    How did we get this way in only the span of a decade?  

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by HeartsAFundie

[Glasgowghirl]

My nephew is going to be 14 tomorrow and in 3rd year at the same high school I went to and he has mentioned that some of the teachers have bought additional textbooks and supplies from their own pockets, with textbooks they rarely let students take them home now because often they wouldn't be returned causing a shortage.

[monkeyrocks71]

I teach for a low income public prek. We are NOT allowed to ask students to bring in supplies. I am required to buy all materials, from crayons to bandaids to tissues to soap to copier paper to nap mats to furniture (if something breaks after 20 years of use). 
 

I get $350/year to do that, and can only buy from an approved vendor. A table is more than that. I also get docked on evaluations if we don’t have “safe” furniture, toys, etc, or enough of either. Our required curriculum also requires an excessive amount of outside materials which, of course, are not supplied. 

I have no choice but to spend hundreds of dollars of my own money on supplies each year. Thank goodness I found donorschoose a few years ago. I was moved to a new classroom that had obviously been scavenged over the summer, and I was missing even basic supplies. I would never have passed my eval if I hadn’t managed to put a couple thousand in (much of it through donorschoose). 

Edited August 22, 2020 by monkeyrocks71
Clarify a couple points

[nausicaa]

23 hours ago, Sops2 said:

The american system sounds desperate. 

The weird thing is, financially it's not. Or shouldn't be. 

The U.S. actually spends well above the global average per student. According to the Census Bureau, in 2017 (latest year I can find these numbers) it was $12,800 per student compared to an OECD average of about $10k. We spend 10% more per student than the U.K.

That's the second most spent per student in the world. We spent $700 billion in 2017 on public education. Adjusted for inflation, government spending on education has increased 36% since 1989. Even The Washington Post had to issue a correction to an education op-ed and admitted this.  

I'm not saying U.S. public schools aren't in need of some major changes (they are) or that teachers aren't forced to buy supplies out of their own pockets, but I'm still completely unsure as to what changes need to be implemented. Obviously a lot of this money is going to the wrong places. But just throwing more money where we've been throwing it probably isn't going to work. And spreading this myth that we've cut education funding I think obscures some real issues that are negatively impacting students and teachers. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by nausicaa

[Bobology]

The Dillard's school shopping video was rather dull, but what struck me was Israel's patience, determination, and maturity, which will serve him well in the future. He can read some and recognize numbers, and I suspect Jill wanted to highlight that in the video. Reading and deciphering the list looked challenging for a child just entering Kindergarten. Israel handled that challenge like a champ. The video was heavily edited so there may have been times that were cut from the video when he showed his frustration, but that kid really tried hard. For instance, there was something like ... 2 24 Count Crayons. That's hard! It looked like they picked up the list upon entering the store so they probably had not seen it earlier. I'm willing to bet if they had that they would have gone over it carefully with Israel so he could read it to them with more confidence as they picked up the items.

The other thing that struck me was how they were able to go about all this like any normal family. No kids having to watch or hold onto younger kids, no line chain or whatever that is called, no multiple carts wobbling down the aisles, no mother chirping in a sing-song voice to obey. Just normal shopping without being a spectacle.

[princessmahina]

1 minute ago, Bobology said:

The Dillard's school shopping video was rather dull, but what struck me was Israel's patience, determination, and maturity, which will serve him well in the future. He can read some and recognize numbers, and I suspect Jill wanted to highlight that in the video. Reading and deciphering the list looked challenging for a child just entering Kindergarten. Israel handled that challenge like a champ. The video was heavily edited so there may have been times that were cut from the video when he showed his frustration, but that kid really tried hard. For instance, there was something like ... 2 24 Count Crayons. That's hard! It looked like they picked up the list upon entering the store so they probably had not seen it earlier. I'm willing to bet if they had that they would have gone over it carefully with Israel so he could read it to them with more confidence as they picked up the items.

The other thing that struck me was how they were able to go about all this like any normal family. No kids having to watch or hold onto younger kids, no line chain or whatever that is called, no multiple carts wobbling down the aisles, no mother chirping in a sing-song voice to obey. Just normal shopping without being a spectacle.

Jill has quickly become a pet fundie for me tbh. General disclaimer that I know she still has terrible beliefs about things. But dang, she’s made some amazing strides. 

[FloraKitty35]

I hope that Israel enjoys school and is allowed to attend school uninterrupted and to make friends and friendly acquaintances outside of his parents beliefs.  Also, sending Israel & Sam (& any other Dillard child) to school not only gives them a better shot at an accredited college or university, it may help to act as kryptonite to people like Jill Rod.

[mpheels]

15 hours ago, nausicaa said:

The weird thing is, financially it's not. Or shouldn't be. 

The U.S. actually spends well above the global average per student. According to the Census Bureau, in 2017 (latest year I can find these numbers) it was $12,800 per student compared to an OECD average of about $10k. We spend 10% more per student than the U.K.

That's the second most spent per student in the world. We spent $700 billion in 2017 on public education. Adjusted for inflation, government spending on education has increased 36% since 1989. Even The Washington Post had to issue a correction to an education op-ed and admitted this.  

I'm not saying U.S. public schools aren't in need of some major changes (they are) or that teachers aren't forced to buy supplies out of their own pockets, but I'm still completely unsure as to what changes need to be implemented. Obviously a lot of this money is going to the wrong places. But just throwing more money where we've been throwing it probably isn't going to work. And spreading this myth that we've cut education funding I think obscures some real issues that are negatively impacting students and teachers. 

A big part of the problem is maldistribution of those funds - public schools in the US are primarily funded through local property taxes, so school districts with wealthier populations (on average) get more money per student. Some states smooth this out by mandating larger school districts that can pool taxes from a range on income group and redistribute across schools. My home state NC is an example of this - by state law, school systems are administered at the county level, with a couple of grandfathered exceptions. This doesn’t completely solve the problem since some counties are wealthier than others, but there is at least some equity with counties, and the state give supplemental money to counties in need. In contrast, somes states will administer schools at a hyper-local level, so there is greater variation in funds, and you have schools that far exceed the average $$ per student, while the neighboring town might have half that. Parent-Teacher Associations also do a lot of fundraising for schools, but for a school with lower income families who may have both parents working multiple low wage jobs, PTA engagement isn’t going to bring in much money.

[Anna Bolinas]

17 hours ago, mpheels said:

A big part of the problem is maldistribution of those funds - public schools in the US are primarily funded through local property taxes, so school districts with wealthier populations (on average) get more money per student.

Yep. The public school district I went through in the suburbs of Philly was definitely underfunded, especially compared to the "nicer" suburbs further from the city. Part of the underfunding stems from how the district is set up and how many kids need to be accommodated (there were ~1,000 kids in my high school graduating class); part of it also stems from the district having large Black and immigrant populations, and we should all know how little this country cares about those groups. I graduated four years ago, and at the time the district did not have the money to give everyone tablets or laptops. The school had a bunch of carts with old Mac laptops that teachers could sign up for and use, plus a handful of computer labs. The Catholic school literally down the street from us, though, they all had their own school-issued laptops.

The United States may spend a lot on education (just by nature of how big this country is and how many schools there are), but it certainly doesn't always trickle down to the students and teachers who need it.

[JordynDarby5]

14 minutes ago, Anna Bolinas said:

Yep. The public school district I went through in the suburbs of Philly was definitely underfunded, especially compared to the "nicer" suburbs further from the city. Part of the underfunding stems from how the district is set up and how many kids need to be accommodated (there were ~1,000 kids in my high school graduating class); part of it also stems from the district having large Black and immigrant populations, and we should all know how little this country cares about those groups. I graduated four years ago, and at the time the district did not have the money to give everyone tablets or laptops. The school had a bunch of carts with old Mac laptops that teachers could sign up for and use, plus a handful of computer labs. The Catholic school literally down the street from us, though, they all had their own school-issued laptops.

The United States may spend a lot on education (just by nature of how big this country is and how many schools there are), but it certainly doesn't always trickle down to the students and teachers who need it.

That's how my district was. When it came to money for the districts mine was always last and got the least. The school books we had were all really old and often out of date. Our teachers would always have to correct the information when we got to those chapters. Every election year they'd always have a bond or something on the ballot for more money for the district. But people always voted no. They finally got it a few years back. Then came what do with the money when you have so many problems? Do you fix the schools or get new books? Fix the broken windows at one school or try and fix the heater? Skip both and use the money for something else the school really needs.  I really don't think a lot of people realize how underfunded schools are. I knew because I went to the district and my sister-in-law teaches in the district. She constantly has to pay out of pocket for school supplies for her students. So do all the other teachers. She and her fellow teachers paid out of pocket to paint their school. They did manage to get a business in town to pay for new playground equipment. It really shouldn't be that way. 

[adidas]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:46 AM, Bobology said:

The Dillard's school shopping video was rather dull, but what struck me was Israel's patience, determination, and maturity, which will serve him well in the future. He can read some and recognize numbers, and I suspect Jill wanted to highlight that in the video. Reading and deciphering the list looked challenging for a child just entering Kindergarten. Israel handled that challenge like a champ. The video was heavily edited so there may have been times that were cut from the video when he showed his frustration, but that kid really tried hard. For instance, there was something like ... 2 24 Count Crayons. That's hard! It looked like they picked up the list upon entering the store so they probably had not seen it earlier. I'm willing to bet if they had that they would have gone over it carefully with Israel so he could read it to them with more confidence as they picked up the items.

The other thing that struck me was how they were able to go about all this like any normal family. No kids having to watch or hold onto younger kids, no line chain or whatever that is called, no multiple carts wobbling down the aisles, no mother chirping in a sing-song voice to obey. Just normal shopping without being a spectacle.

I agree. I don’t want to be accused of being a leghumper but here is Jill, wearing pants (shorts above the knee!), sending her kids to public school, supporting mask wearing ... she has come so far. I really am proud of her and I hope she keeps making great strides.

When I first started reading here I honestly thought Jill would be the one with 12 homeschooled kids before her 10th wedding anniversary. I never thought she would leave the fundie life. 

[HeartsAFundie]

6 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

That's how my district was. When it came to money for the districts mine was always last and got the least. 

Yep. my city did the same thing.  I lived in a lower-income, more ethnic section-my city is predominantly Portuguese and a lot of folks were arriving from the Azorean islands and Portugal when I was in elementary school back in the 70s-and we were expected to be not only satisfied but downright appreciative for the meager scraps the school department threw us.   It was no secret that the schools in the wealthier and most politically-connected districts got the newest and best supplies and the newest and best books.  I am 100% sure the powers that be-who ironically and mostly grew up in the poorer school districts themselves-thought the kids in the "richie" districts were more deserving of new books and supplies and were going to make more out of themselves than the kids in the poorer areas, so why bother investing in kids who wouldn't appreciate it anyway?  And who wants reminders around of what you escaped and left behind years ago?   

In fact, rather than order new ones for us, my school actually received books and supplies handed down from the more affluent schools after they were finished with them.  We saw the  "Property Of......." and the previous school's name stamped on the inside book covers; we may have been lower-income but we sure weren't stupid.  I also remember our school getting a middle school's old gymnastics equipment because they were finished with it  and got brand-new replacements, and we were expected to be grateful for receiving used and well-worn equipment.  I'm honestly shocked we weren't forced to write thank-you notes.    

Edited August 24, 2020 by HeartsAFundie

[SweetLaurel]

Apparently today was Israel's  first day of school.  I hope he had a good one and I can't believe how happy I am for him.  Maybe there will be hope for that generation to grow and change and open minds.   

[BullyJBG]

Yes, they posted all about it! With photos of him and Derick, of him wearing his backpack, of all 4 of them in their masks. Yay! One happy dance step at a time; let's see what's next. I'm pretty sure Jimbob and Michelle will stay shut up about it.......and the other siblings likely will too, though my guess is, any of them may comment about it before their parents do. And probably a "well they're doing what they think is best/what the Lord has called them to". Oh yeah, and it probably wouldn't be Jessa, because she'd be the one who'd be asked if Spurgie would be jealous of Israel.

[Italiangirl]

How do you think the other kids will react to Israel going to school? I mean maybe the M kids will not care since they are used to be homeschool by more time and all together, but maybe Spurge will start to ask why Izzy go to school and meet new friends and has all the cool stuff (looking for a new backpack/ book/ diary/ notebooks was one of the most await things in the summer when I and my friends/cousins were schools age)? Will the parents just reinforce their way to do, with some passive-aggressive phrase here and there? "Why you want to get up early and be out of the house without your siblings when you could just stay here with mommy?" Why buy things that you will not need? Or something like this...

[VBOY9977]

Honestly, I used to be skeptical of  Rachel Virden because I thought that she was using Jill to promote that skincare MLM but I am so glad Jill has her as a friend. She seems like she has helped Jill navigate through these changes and has been a positive influence on her.
 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by VBOY9977

[HeartsAFundie]

I still believe that when the Duggars came to the schools to play instruments and entertain the student body, that Jill secretly envisioned herself sitting on the auditorium floor with the rest of the kids, or sitting at a desk in a classroom.  I am glad that she wants better for Izzy with education than what she received.  And even better, she is making it happen.  Well done!

This whole thing got me thinking.  Remember when Jill told Jinger "You really need to work on your contentment"?  Sounds like she knew of what she spoke firsthand and was likely working on her own the entire time.  Seeing other kids interacting with each other in a school setting and having a good time....knowing there was more to life out there than your little bubble but it was off limits to you through no fault of your own, and you're forced to accept your lot in life and keep sweet all at the same time...something is bound to give sooner or later.  And right now with Jill, it has. 

[princessmahina]

4 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:This whole thing got me thinking.  Remember when Jill told Jinger "You really need to work on your contentment"?  Sounds like she knew of what she spoke firsthand and was likely working on her own the entire time.  Seeing other kids interacting with each other in a school setting and having a good time....knowing there was more to life out there than your little bubble but it was off limits to you through no fault of your own, and you're forced to accept your lot in life and keep sweet all at the same time...something is bound to give sooner or later.  And right now with Jill, it has. 

I always thought it was SO bitchy when Jill said that. But now I wonder if there was more to it, like you said. 

[nausicaa]

 

Quote

The United States may spend a lot on education (just by nature of how big this country is and how many schools there are), but it certainly doesn't always trickle down to the students and teachers who need it.

It's not just spending more in totality though, we actually spend significantly more *per student* than nearly every other country. I know property taxes are part of the reason for this and can skew the average, but spending on the federal and state level per student has steadily increased as well. 

I agree though, students and teachers sadly often don't see it. I wish we knew better where it was all going so we could have a more efficient plan for improvement.  I've been hoping for an investigative long form journalism piece for a while, but most liberal-leaning outlets seem satisfied with the "funding has been cut" narrative and conservative-leaning outlets admit the truths behind spending but don't dig any deeper because "what else did you expect, government sucks, homeschool your kids."

Anyway, just something else I've been frustrated with for a while now. 

[Melissa1977]

Competitive Jeremy is now planning his picture with a uniform-wearing Felicity in a few years. I predict a Christian school for Vuolos. I know Jeremy is sexist AF and probably thinks that his daughters need no careers, but at the same time he would like to show how smart his offspring is.

[BernRul]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

Competitive Jeremy is now planning his picture with a uniform-wearing Felicity in a few years. I predict a Christian school for Vuolos. I know Jeremy is sexist AF and probably thinks that his daughters need no careers, but at the same time he would like to show how smart his offspring is.

Especially if he only has girls. With his whole scholar narrative, I think he'll want the kids to be somewhat educated, and he's smart enough to know Jinger can't do that. 

[Glasgowghirl]

So happy for Izzy, hope some of his cousins eventually end up school. 

[SassyPants]

Does anyone know if Abbie was homeschooled? I think those kids might have a better chance at having a more comprehensive education. Abbie doesn’t present as dull, so maybe...AnnaMarie Maxwell presents as quite intelligent. Take away the weird religious indoctrination, I’m betting she is a decent teacher and her kids are getting a much better education than her husband and his siblings received. I don’t think any of the Duggars would have the knowledge base to properly homeschool. There might be a handful of Bates who could decently homeschool. Unfortunately, one of those individuals is unable to have children. 

[haroldtheyrefundies]

21 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Does anyone know if Abbie was homeschooled? I think those kids might have a better chance at having a more comprehensive education. Abbie doesn’t present as dull, so maybe...AnnaMarie Maxwell presents as quite intelligent. Take away the weird religious indoctrination, I’m betting she is a decent teacher and her kids are getting a much better education than her husband and his siblings received. I don’t think any of the Duggars would have the knowledge base to properly homeschool. There might be a handful of Bates who could decently homeschool. Unfortunately, one of those individuals is unable to have children. 

Abbie's family used ATI, and is actually featured on the ATI website. So, she was homeschooled. But of course Abbie's education (or lack of education. Or maybe her family also used other homeschool programs other than ATI) didn't stop her from becoming a nurse. Now did she become a nurse in spite of her education or because of her education? I'm not sure. I hope it is the latter though. 

[Aine]

I don't think I've ever opened the Dillard thread here at FJ because I don't follow Jill and Derick- I always thought she was the most annoying of the older daughters when I'd see her on the TV and Derick annoyed me so no interest.

I know you're all talking about this, but when I randomly clicked onto her profile today on IG from a comment she'd left on another fundie profile that I do follow, I truly thought I was hallucinating and that the first day of school photo meant his first day of homeschool kindergarten. Then I Googled and got a little caught up on all the Derick vs Jim Bob stuff, realized Jill has a nose ring, and, most importantly, that Israel is going to public school!

I know there is plenty of Dillard snark to catch up on, and I'm deliberating doing so now, but this is the best news from fundie land I've seen in a long time. Pre-marriage (the last time I really paid any attention to her), Jill would have been dead last on my list of bets regarding which older Duggar kid would send their kid/s to school with people who could disagree with them, believe differently, or look different to them. I have respect for her in taking this step outside of what she ever knew for her son/s. I bet it will be a whirlwind of learning for both Israel and his Mom!