Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

.AnnaMarie Maxwell presents as quite intelligent. Take away the weird religious indoctrination, I’m betting she is a decent teacher and her kids are getting a much better education than her husband and his siblings received

Anna Marie is clever, but she's using a Maxwell approved curriculum, with very few creativity and lots of Bible memorisation, which makes difficult to create bright students. In addition, she does not allow her daughters the same activities than the boys, neither can the girls develop her physical skills (ankle long dresses for toddlers?). 

Maxwell children don't go to the library, museums, science fairs, theatre or cinema, nothing. And of course, they are raised to believe that school and college is bad. No need to study hard, the girls will be moms (or aunts) and the boys can learn something online.

 

[Idlewild]

12 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Competitive Jeremy is now planning his picture with a uniform-wearing Felicity in a few years. I predict a Christian school for Vuolos. I know Jeremy is sexist AF and probably thinks that his daughters need no careers, but at the same time he would like to show how smart his offspring is.

But who is going to pay? These two seem to have the strongest sense of entitlement. If the college eventually boots them out of their subsidised home they will have a very expensive lifestyle to maintain -will the podcasts cover that?

Jeremy would probably see teaching in a Christian school as beneath him and Jinger isn’t qualified. I’m still wondering if his cruise ship gig will go ahead in January. 

[adidas]

29 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

But who is going to pay? These two seem to have the strongest sense of entitlement. If the college eventually boots them out of their subsidised home they will have a very expensive lifestyle to maintain -will the podcasts cover that?

Jeremy would probably see teaching in a Christian school as beneath him and Jinger isn’t qualified. I’m still wondering if his cruise ship gig will go ahead in January. 

Sometimes Christian schools will give very generous discounts to clergy.

[wendy-sparkles]

6 hours ago, haroldtheyrefundies said:

Abbie's family used ATI, and is actually featured on the ATI website. So, she was homeschooled. But of course Abbie's education (or lack of education. Or maybe her family also used other homeschool programs other than ATI) didn't stop her from becoming a nurse. Now did she become a nurse in spite of her education or because of her education? I'm not sure. I hope it is the latter though. 

The Duggars also used Switched on Schoolhouse iirc, I presume that this isn't unusual in the ATI homeschool families - my understanding is that families who homeschool often use a variety of curriculums/resources. I think Michelle said that they used Wisdom booklets until the kids were maybe 8ish, and then they went on to doing school on the computer. Does anyone else remember this?

 I just googled the Bates homeschooling and Kelly wrote on their blog

Quote

 In the past, we’ve used ABeka, Bob Jones, Paces, Switched on Schoolhouse, The Teaching textbook (for Algebra 1 and 2), Wordsmith (for writing), Apologia Science, Precepts of Anatomy and Physiology, Principles Precepts and Theories of Biology,  Grammar Key, Easy Grammar, Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, etc…

Very interesting that she doesn't mention ATI at all given her husband is now on the board of IBLP (The blog is mainly about how she loves ABeka). My assumption is that Abbie's family did something similar. Poor ATI, we're blaming it for all these educational deficits for kids whose parents might have actually used something else entirely. (Not that ATI isn't at the very least strange if not terrible. I googled their website too and was delighted to discover that they consider the five key subject areas to be linguistics, history, science.... medicine and law.)

Obviously I know why they don't, but it seems to me if you're going to be Quiverfull a public (or Charter?) school would be my most valuable resource. Get all the kids out of the house and educated for little money and effort, so you can concentrate on the babies and all the housework during the day, and maybe even get a tiny break. Could the Duggars put together their own Christian ATI-esque charter school in a couple of years? Do churches in the US do this?

It was genuinely shocking to me how US Public schools are funded - here, the better off socioeconomically the school/area/parents are the less funding it gets, with the understanding that parents are in a better of position to fundraise for the school, and that children from worse off areas are likely to need extra funding and support. Israel buying the tissues etc really surprised me until I remembered that, as my schools were mostly high decile, we were asked to pay a voluntary donation ($80-$130 iirc 10-20 years ago) to contribute to the school. Of course, the well off parents would always argue about schooling being free while less well off parents would go on payment plans to contribute. This seems more efficient because you can buy in bulk, but there is obviously that trade off in some parents who are able to refusing to contribute. 

[HideousGreenShirt]

I feel like I need to preface this by saying I am no Dillard fan for obvious reasons but I'm so happy for Jill because SHE seems so happy! She's posting paid sponsorships and genuinely seeming to enjoy the cute, modern clothes. Her son is in a real school and has actual, non-related friends. 

Look at her smile in these photos:

Spoiler

She has come such a long way in these last few years, I hope she continues doing whatever she is doing. I don't expect her and Derick to suddenly announce they are Pro-choice, anti Trump and accepting of LGBTQ+ people, but I do hope we see her to continue to relax into who she is, push for a career (if that is what she wants) and encourage her sons to pursue interests and education. 

I can see Izzy (and his friend, Rachel's son) signing up for a martial arts class or pee wee baseball when/if things calm down. 

[ophelia]

Israel looks so happy and I hope he can make lots of friends and has great experiences at school.

BTW I can totally see Jill and Derrick having 2 or even 3 more kids, but I'm sure there will be manageable age gaps and continued public education in the future so their kids won't be as lost as a lot of the Duggar kids.

[CarrotCake]

I never watched Jill on Youtube until now (the school supply video). If I compare how she is talking and laughing in the car with how she was on the show it is day and night.

[TuringMachine]

I am so freaking happy for Israel. I do also wonder how the cousins will feel. How long until his knowledge surpasses Mackynzie? Or hell, what grade do they teach multiplication? He's going to know so much more than his aunts and uncles by the time he finishes elementary school.

Edited August 25, 2020 by TuringMachine

[SassyPants]

So as much as Derick can be less than a peach, at least in this area he shows he is aware, capable and head and shoulders above JB. Yes, the bar is very low, but he IS doing better for his kids in the education department. Education opens so many things, especially the mind. I give Derick all the credit here for 2 reasons, 1) headship and 2) background. Jill, I’d imagine, has very little knowledge on the workings of public education, so little reference point to form or present an opinion.

Jill and Derick have already done better than JB and Michelle. And since Jill has always presented as a people pleaser, I’m going to assume that she’s let Derick take the lead.

Edited August 25, 2020 by SassyPants

[FluffySnowball]

5 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

I feel like I need to preface this by saying I am no Dillard fan for obvious reasons but I'm so happy for Jill because SHE seems so happy! She's posting paid sponsorships and genuinely seeming to enjoy the cute, modern clothes. Her son is in a real school and has actual, non-related friends. 

Look at her smile in these photos:

You’re SO right (I’m turning into JillRod here with my capitalization ?), her smile seems relaxed and genuine. The surprised look with  eyes wide open and a forced grin that she often pictured herself in until a while ago just didn’t seem real. I’m honestly curious what Jill will do and accomplish during her 30s. Her ugly anti-gay and anti-choice beliefs aside, I wish her well. 

My guess is that her parents, on the other hand, don’t appreciate her development and don’t enjoy witnessing her newfound freedom and joy. 

36 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Jill and Derick have already done better than JB and Michelle. And since Jill has always presented as a people pleaser, I’m going to assume that she’s let Derick take the lead.

You’re probably right, @SassyPants, but I still hope Jill finds her own voice, especially when it comes to decisions concerning her and her children. The fact that she’s oh therapy (do we know if it’s faith-based or secular?) gives me reasons to believe she is going into the right direction. 

But regardless of who actually made the decision to send the little Dillards to public school, it was a much better choice than Jill’s parents have ever made in terms of their own children’s education. 

[Italiangirl]

40 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

I am so freaking happy for Israel. I do also wonder how the cousins will feel. How long until his knowledge surpasses Mackynzie? Or hell, what grade do they teach multiplication? He's going to know so much more than his aunts and uncles by the time he finishes elementary school.

I think that even at the end of this year he will know many more things that her cousins, just the social ability he could learn, all the different types of background and ideas he could be exposed to, even if the school isn't in such a diverse area, but different kids with different families, he could even meet a single child and divorced parents! 

[princessmahina]

8 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

The Duggars also used Switched on Schoolhouse iirc, I presume that this isn't unusual in the ATI homeschool families - my understanding is that families who homeschool often use a variety of curriculums/resources. I think Michelle said that they used Wisdom booklets until the kids were maybe 8ish, and then they went on to doing school on the computer. Does anyone else remember this?

 I just googled the Bates homeschooling and Kelly wrote on their blog

Very interesting that she doesn't mention ATI at all given her husband is now on the board of IBLP (The blog is mainly about how she loves ABeka). My assumption is that Abbie's family did something similar. Poor ATI, we're blaming it for all these educational deficits for kids whose parents might have actually used something else entirely. (Not that ATI isn't at the very least strange if not terrible. I googled their website too and was delighted to discover that they consider the five key subject areas to be linguistics, history, science.... medicine and law.)

Obviously I know why they don't, but it seems to me if you're going to be Quiverfull a public (or Charter?) school would be my most valuable resource. Get all the kids out of the house and educated for little money and effort, so you can concentrate on the babies and all the housework during the day, and maybe even get a tiny break. Could the Duggars put together their own Christian ATI-esque charter school in a couple of years? Do churches in the US do this?

It was genuinely shocking to me how US Public schools are funded - here, the better off socioeconomically the school/area/parents are the less funding it gets, with the understanding that parents are in a better of position to fundraise for the school, and that children from worse off areas are likely to need extra funding and support. Israel buying the tissues etc really surprised me until I remembered that, as my schools were mostly high decile, we were asked to pay a voluntary donation ($80-$130 iirc 10-20 years ago) to contribute to the school. Of course, the well off parents would always argue about schooling being free while less well off parents would go on payment plans to contribute. This seems more efficient because you can buy in bulk, but there is obviously that trade off in some parents who are able to refusing to contribute. 

If Ben is teaching the Duggar kids, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve already almost formed their own little school. Especially if Anna ever sends her own kids over there. If Ben is already teaching, there’s no point in Jessa separately homeschooling...and so on. They might as well form a little Duggar school. 

[SassyPants]

48 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

If Ben is teaching the Duggar kids, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve already almost formed their own little school. Especially if Anna ever sends her own kids over there. If Ben is already teaching, there’s no point in Jessa separately homeschooling...and so on. They might as well form a little Duggar school. 

I always thought they would. JB has 40 acres. They could all be living and getting schooled on the grounds.

Basically it all boils down to when you know better, you should do better. Derick knows better, and he is teaching/mentoring/guiding  JIll to know better. I still wonder though, if his dad was alive or if his mother had not been sick at such a critical time for Derick, if JB would have ever entered his life in such a way. I know they all knew of each other prior to Tibet and Cathy’s illness, but I wonder at what point that all changed for Derick.

I also wonder how the conversation between Derick and Jill went wrt public school education for the boys. I wonder if Cathy was brought in to tag team? I’m sure Derick referenced his own experiences in PS, and how he successful he has been, and how he is still God fearing-

[Idlewild]

Maybe the attitude of JB was the catalyst. Jill managed to to see him for what he is- a man who can make flawed judgements and doesn’t necessarily know best. It might have dawned on her that there are educated people with proper trades and professions who are not scary heathens but perfectly nice people , many of whom are also Christian. She can see her brothers growing up with choice of car lot, real estate or general ( uncertified) maintenance workers and realised that a) her boys may want something else and b) JB may not be so generous to her children because they ditched the show.

I truly hope that they start to realise JB and M were wrong about a lot of other things too.

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

I am so freaking happy for Israel. I do also wonder how the cousins will feel. How long until his knowledge surpasses Mackynzie? Or hell, what grade do they teach multiplication? He's going to know so much more than his aunts and uncles by the time he finishes elementary school.

Me too. And this will be very interesting to see (not that we'll get to see it). The lackluster homeschoolers I know got away with it in large part because they didn't associate with many kids and so the parents didn't know how behind their kids really were. There will be inevitable comparisons when Izzy's in fourth or fifth grade.

It'd be pretty cool if Izzy is a mini Spartacus for the Duggar real education movement. 

I also wonder how the other Duggar moms will feel when they see how ahead Izzy is academically and socially, while Jill also has more freedom in her schedule once Samuel hits preK. Especially if the Dillards dont have any more or are least wait a while. 

[neuroticcat]

I don’t know. I know a fair amount of homeschoolers who could not care less about comparison to the school system. Once you opt out, it doesn’t really matter what standardized classes are doing. Also, we’ve seen that academic excellence isn’t a huge goal, so I’m not sure they’d care. Character teaching was always the biggest emphasis in wisdom booklets and stuff like that. I imagine they’ll all be watching carefully for signs of worldliness - even the sort of cultural Christianity cousin Amy exhibited. 

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I don’t know. I know a fair amount of homeschoolers who could not care less about comparison to the school system. Once you opt out, it doesn’t really matter what standardized classes are doing. Also, we’ve seen that academic excellence isn’t a huge goal, so I’m not sure they’d care. Character teaching was always the biggest emphasis in wisdom booklets and stuff like that. I imagine they’ll all be watching carefully for signs of worldliness - even the sort of cultural Christianity cousin Amy exhibited. 

Character Teaching-

Duggars*cough*Josh
 

You’d have sink pretty far down to be that bad-

[neuroticcat]

Right. Not saying they succeeded. ?

honestly the ATI character stuff is so weird. I remember in my days flirting with fundiedom I got the ATI character definition sheet Michelle recommends. It should have been red flags all over but the definitions were so tortured and off.

https://atii.org/family/curriculum/character/

[AussieKrissy]

13 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

I feel like I need to preface this by saying I am no Dillard fan for obvious reasons but I'm so happy for Jill because SHE seems so happy! She's posting paid sponsorships and genuinely seeming to enjoy the cute, modern clothes. Her son is in a real school and has actual, non-related friends. 

Look at her smile in these photos:

  Hide contents

She has come such a long way in these last few years, I hope she continues doing whatever she is doing. I don't expect her and Derick to suddenly announce they are Pro-choice, anti Trump and accepting of LGBTQ+ people, but I do hope we see her to continue to relax into who she is, push for a career (if that is what she wants) and encourage her sons to pursue interests and education. 

I can see Izzy (and his friend, Rachel's son) signing up for a martial arts class or pee wee baseball when/if things calm down. 

Jill looks fab, i Have to ask because i didn't watch with sound, are those shorts and tops sets pajamas they look fab but look like pjs, if the top didn't match the bottoms they could pass as outdoor wear. either way she looks totally fab and glowing. I cant believe how proud I am of her and her (limited) growth. I hope more and more is to come... Oh and those leopard print sets look hella comfortable 

[Vivi_music]

8 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Jill looks fab, i Have to ask because i didn't watch with sound, are those shorts and tops sets pajamas they look fab but look like pjs, if the top didn't match the bottoms they could pass as outdoor wear. either way she looks totally fab and glowing. I cant believe how proud I am of her and her (limited) growth. I hope more and more is to come... Oh and those leopard print sets look hella comfortable 

When I watched it on Insta, I'm pretty sure she said those sets were loungewear, so mainly to chill at home.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I don’t know. I know a fair amount of homeschoolers who could not care less about comparison to the school system. Once you opt out, it doesn’t really matter what standardized classes are doing. Also, we’ve seen that academic excellence isn’t a huge goal, so I’m not sure they’d care. Character teaching was always the biggest emphasis in wisdom booklets and stuff like that. I imagine they’ll all be watching carefully for signs of worldliness - even the sort of cultural Christianity cousin Amy exhibited. 

That's true. I guess most of the crappy homeschoolers I knew (which granted isn't a huge sample size) seemed to preen about their kids, as if they had the same abilities as the kids who win the Scripps Spelling Bee, just by virtue of both being homeschooled. Senior year of high school was often a rude awakening. 

But yeah, the Duggars don't seem to care much about school at any stage of life. 

[DalmatianCat]

12 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

I am so freaking happy for Israel. I do also wonder how the cousins will feel. How long until his knowledge surpasses Mackynzie? Or hell, what grade do they teach multiplication? He's going to know so much more than his aunts and uncles by the time he finishes elementary school.

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

[FloraDoraDolly]

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

If the second generation Duggars are educated the same way as the first generation Duggars, then yes, I do think Israel will surpass his cousins-- and probably his aunt Josie as well. Anna seemed to be doing a pretty good job educating Mackynzie when she was little, but that was when they lived in DC, before the scandal, and before Anna and Josh had six kids (and I expect they'll have more). I also remember seeing footage of James Duggar at age 12-13, struggling to remember his multiplication tables, which most American kids learn when they're about eight or nine. There was also footage of Michelle trying to get Jackson (who was about 5 or 6) to do a simple "B is for ball" worksheet. Johannah was able to learn it immediately, but I shudder to think of how poorly educated that girl would be now that she's a teenager.

Yes, there are homeschooled kids who outperform their public school counterparts. But those kids almost always have well-educated parents, not parents who spent their K-12 years at Michelle Duggar's School of the Dining Room Table and then were not even allowed to earn a degree at Clown College. Some of the grown Duggars might be able to do okay teaching the basics to their own kids, but that will change once those kids get to be in the third or fourth grade-- especially if those kids have more than two or three younger siblings by that time.

[FrumperedCat]

I'm imagining that when Samuel begins school Jill might look to volunteering to fill her time or maybe decide to have further children. Back when she was living in the McMansion it seemed she struggled with the empty days a bit, so hopefully she's learnt from that. Having those sorts of purposness long stretches in your day can feel so draining and being alone with your thoughts like that can surely cause a downwood spiral for mental health. Of course now with children she's probably still got household chores to do during the day, but hopefully she'll find some volunteering to fill the empty periods.

My mother has really benefited from volunteering for a few hours a week with a charity helping those feed the homeless by providing meals. I disapprove a little as it's Christian based, but since the only religious aspect is a prayer before the meal I don't grumble much, especially as she seems so much more fulfilled. I could see Jill benefiting from similar, and it's so flexible which would help with school holidays etc.

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

**Unpopular opinion** (or maybe I just know a drastically different subset of homeschoolers than everyone else on this site), but I highly doubt Israel will be “passing” any of his cousins academically anytime soon. If anything, he might even seem a bit behind. While Jessa will be able to sit down and go through several reading lessons a day with Spurgeon while Ivy is napping and Henry is playing or coloring, Israel might just be learning one letter, sound, or blend a day. He might end up in an advanced reading group, but that would be because of Jill working with him at home...not because she decided to send him to public school. Homeschooled kiddos I know tend to excel quickly in math and reading early on due to all the one-on-one attention from their parents. The kids in public school who are excelling at the same rate typically have parents who spend a lot of time working with them outside of school. It’s not just because of what’s happening inside school.  My friends who teach in public schools are amazing at what they do, but when you’re teaching at one of the “difficult” schools (at-risk kids, low-income parents, immigrant children) in the district and over 75% of third graders can’t read at grade level, there’s only so much the teacher can do to help the kids get on track (homeschooling would not help these kids either...public school is much better than the education they would get at home). Overcoming the lack of help at home is tough. 

My personal opinion, but you typically don’t see a big gap academically until you start comparing public school high schoolers vs. homeschooled high schoolers. And even that’s still a toss up. In my town I know a lot of homeschoolers who got college scholarships and went on to get degrees. I also know teens in public school who went right into minimum wage jobs, got pregnant, or started college and fizzled out (I also know public school kids who got college scholarships and homeschoolers who had...interesting starts to life). The biggest factor doesn’t always seem to be public school/homeschool but family life, home life, and individual intelligence. Lots of families I know go back and forth between a hodge podge of homeschool/private school/public school. I can easily see Jill and Derrick just doing public school for elementary and then switching to private/homeschool in middle or high school.
All that to say that the idea that Israel will be academically lapping his cousins just because he’s in public school is a bit absurd. If he is, it will probably have more to do with having a mom who sat down and did his homework and projects with him after school, being a pretty smart kid naturally, and having access to special services or an IEP if he needs them (this is definitely a public school advantage!).

Israel is going to the top-ranked elementary school in his state, not a struggling school.

And I specified "crappy homeschooling" in my comparisons. I know people who homeschooled well, but that's not what Jim Bob and Michelle did. If the 2nd Gen Duggars plan to do anything similar to what their parents did with homeschooling or what Alyssa Bates is currently doing, Israel will quickly lap his cousins.