Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[FluffySnowball]

I just watched Jill and Derick’s Q&A and I must say that I was positively surprised.
 

When Jill said that it was a mutual decision to send their children to public school, I believed her. She seems absolutely on board with the choice they’ve made and I didn’t get the sense Derick somehow pushed her I’d to it against her will. Not in the slightest. Also, both seem to empathize their kids‘ education, which is such a huge improvement compared the the “Duggar lifestyle”. 

The fact that both Jill and Derick want their children to have friends outside the close family circle is another huge plus, so it seems they won’t just send their boys to school while strictly limiting their ability to spend time with other kids. Izzy and Sam might have a much better future than many of their cousins (and aunts and uncles).

Jill really has come such a long way. The whole funds-light discussion aside, I believe the changes she’s implementing in her life are much more profound than the changes someone like Alyssa Webster (née Bates) made. Alyssa’s changes seem far more superficial (literally and figuratively) while Jill gives her own life and that if her family a new, less cultish direction. Good on her. Her and Derick’s hateful believes aside, I do hope she continues to grow. 

[front hugs > duggs]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but this quote in the people article I feel like gives us a little bit more insight into the Duggars (bolding mine):

“Growing up, the whole idea of drinking was not encouraged,” Jill says. “I know my parents would not be happy with it, and I know that my siblings, some more than others, would probably have an issue with it. Other ones would probably be like, 'Whatever's good for y’all, that's fine. Live your life.' So far nobody's said anything to us about it.”

Not sure why, but I really find this fascinating.

[SorenaJ]

Oh, I wish Jill and Derick were really good people, they would have been quite likeable. I can't help but smile at Jill. I'm proud of her! 

[purple_summer]

2 hours ago, Marionette said:

I have to say... I’m really proud of Jill. I think the difference between her and Jinger is for one, Jeremy. Jeremy is trying so hard to make he & Jinger seem cool and hip... and palatable. Jill is just doing her thing at this point (now Derick has done a LOT of things I don’t like but... I hate Jeremy because he seems like such a fake). I think she & Jinger are both insecure, but Jinger hides behind Jeremy so much. I understand where a lot of you are wary to say that she’s broken away, but these steps are so big for someone who grew up like Jill did.

I’ve said before in various threads, I grew up in a lot of Duggar-adjacent circles and then became heavily involved with the Duggars/IBLP as a teenager, even went to the Caldwells’ church for a bit. The manipulation and gaslighting is just insane. I remember when Jill got married and started attending Crosschurch, some comments were made about her just using the ESV bible. I’ve lived on my own for 2 years now, and I’m still scared to admit that I’ve had occasional drinks, or I watch or listen to certain shows/music. My dad straight-up told me I was apostate/“running from God” because I left my IFB church to go to a God-forsaken small Southern Baptist church with Christian contemporary worship and non-KJV bible! And women pray/read Scripture in front of the men! That isn’t to say I agree with all of the politics of my church, but I feel like for me it will take a few years and possibly an out-of-state move to really find a church I can agree with on both doctrine and social issues. It’s really so hard to make all of these transitions, and Jill was not one that I thought ever would. 

Hi friend. I know the gaslighting well. I still struggle with playing music/movies ou loud from fear of being heard and getting chewed out. I don’t have much to say, just letting you know you’re not alone. 

[lexiloumarie]

I find the repeated comments in the article and the video about transparency telling. Especially to Jill who I'm sure is now very aware of the way her family has manipulated their lives for television. She doesn't want to hide or mislead people, and she is very clear that as a people pleaser that is something she has done and wants to stop. These are areas where even regular folks struggle. I used to see it as an LGBT person all the time. "well I'm socially out but I'm not work out." Or " well my family knows but I won't tell them about so and so until it's been at least a year because otherwise it'll just be issues for no reason "

 

I dont like Derek but I have to give them credit. They are not doing what they're doing blindly or as some sort of rebellion. They seem to have spent serious time as a couple discussing a lot of major issues and that's good. Jill reading books off of public school lists and drinking because one drink isn't a sin is a major step from "Jesus turned water into grape juice". 

But is it wrong that I want to know who the hypocrites are in the family based on her "I'm not going to be someone who drinks in secret and hides it." Combined with the transparency comments it tripped my radar .Josh? JinJer? John David?

[Pecansforeveryone]

@front hugs > duggs, I too wonder which siblings are ok with her drinking. I wonder, in particular about Jessa . Do we know if Ben's family is ok with moderate drinking? 

[Alisamer]

2 hours ago, Marionette said:

That isn’t to say I agree with all of the politics of my church, but I feel like for me it will take a few years and possibly an out-of-state move to really find a church I can agree with on both doctrine and social issues. It’s really so hard to make all of these transitions, and Jill was not one that I thought ever would. 

I'm not sure if there even is a church that I 100% agree on for everything. But I have attended the church I currently attend since high school, and the people there are essentially extended family to me. I don't attend often, mostly only when we play handbells in a service. And despite it being what most Baptist churches would call "liberal", I could list at least three people attending there who I strongly disagree with on social issues (and I kind of wonder how they are handling the fact a member of our church recently came out as bi and is now in a same-sex relationship, especially considering the majority of reponses from other church members on facebook was "congratulations! you look so happy!") - so if someone just looked at my church from the outside they might assume I'm more conservative than I am. But one of the things my church says is that everyone has to interpret the Bible for themselves, and they focus on the love one another aspect of Christianity as the most important thing. I don't discuss politics with anyone from my church, and the pastor is clear that he does not and will not discuss that from the pulpit (separation of church and state, y'all). 

So while I'm sure that Jill and Derrick are still way, way more conservative socially than most would hope for, I don't want to assume that they believe 100% exactly what the church they attend believes. Derrick has shown himself to be a bag of dicks in the past, but it's been a minute since he's posted something outright offensive. And in the meantime they've moved past at least two major, massive, huge pillars of the Duggar parents' faith in accepting alcohol in moderation and putting the kids in public school. Alcohol has been a huge taboo for Baptists for ages now, so that's not just a step away from the Duggars! (Though a family in my Baptist church owns a wine store, so we're not super picky about that.)

We know Jill, at least, is growing and learning and turning out to be a better person than I ever thought she might be. Maybe she'll keep growing. I hope she does. I hope Derrick is also becoming a better person than he was.

In any case I think their kids have a much higher possibility of growing up to be accepting, understanding, good people than any of the other Duggarlings so far.

The other big Baptist no-no is dancing. Jill's young and fit, I'd love to see her take some dance classes and put the boys in dance as well. Really, Jill seems to be becoming the sort of person who might enjoy hoop dancing (hula hoops, not native american hoop dancing).

[Idlewild]

Does Derick explain what changed his mind about alcohol? Previously he has said they don’t drink.

They don’t seem to be interested in stepping back from publicity including having their children’s lives on SM. I find that interesting as DD has previously alluded that he thinks TLC were exploitative.

I have this nagging doubt that in his desperation to get one over on JB ( and possibly others in the family) DD is hoping to land some sort of show for them based on their evolution from Duggarhood. Or maybe his book is ready to publish! 
Actually if they did get their own show it would be one in the eye for Jeremy! 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Idlewild

[OrchidBlossom]

57 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

@front hugs > duggs, I too wonder which siblings are ok with her drinking. I wonder, in particular about Jessa . Do we know if Ben's family is ok with moderate drinking? 

I think there’s some speculation (I don’t think it’s more than speculation) that the Vuolo’s drink or at least are okay with mild drinking. 
 

some people have thought they saw a wine bottle in photos or videos of them and Jeremy has said it’s okay for Christians to have a glass of wine in a sermon I think.

Edited September 16, 2020 by OrchidBlossom
Explanation

[Snarkasarus Rex]

26 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Does Derick explain what changed his mind about alcohol? Previously he has said they don’t drink.

They don’t seem to be interested in stepping back from publicity including having their children’s lives on SM. I find that interesting as DD has previously alluded that he thinks TLC were exploitative.

I have this nagging doubt that in his desperation to get one over on JB ( and possibly others in the family) DD is hoping to land some sort of show for them based on their evolution from Duggarhood. Or maybe his book is ready to publish! 
Actually if they did get their own show it would be one in the eye for Jeremy! 

Derick was never pissed about being on TV, he was just pissed that he didn’t have control over their participation. He told The Sun earlier this year he would consider returning to the show as long as it was on their terms.  This was after he claimed TLC was abusive and ‘brought them to the brink of sanity’ on Twitter. 

So yeah, I don’t see them stepping back from limelight, now that they have their own platform.  This may have been the first People article they were actually paid for...he’s not going to stop that train. If they were offered a show, they’d take it. 

This is also why I question his commitment to becoming a practicing lawyer...I don’t think the exposure is particularly helpful to someone trying to launch his career...again.

[Iamtheway]

1 hour ago, lexiloumarie said:

But is it wrong that I want to know who the hypocrites are in the family based on her "I'm not going to be someone who drinks in secret and hides it." Combined with the transparency comments it tripped my radar .Josh? JinJer? John David?

JD seems like the kind of guy that would enjoy a beer or two. But he doesn’t seem like that kind of guy that would hide it if he did. My vote is on JinJer. 

[viii]

Likely to drink: JD, Jinger, Joy, and Josiah

Not likely to drink: Jana, Jessa, and Joe

Josh is a wild card. I could see him wanting to drink but I could see Anne not being okay with it. 

[Daisy0322]

3 minutes ago, viii said:

Likely to drink: JD, Jinger, Joy, and Josiah

Not likely to drink: Jana, Jessa, and Joe

Josh is a wild card. I could see him wanting to drink but I could see Anne not being okay with it. 

He probably just doesn’t tell her about that either 

[Not that josh's mom]

I can see JD having a beer with the guys as they BBQ, or cut down a tree. Definitely Jeremy.  He'd like to be a wine snob,  but isn't showing that because of the TLC bucks.  

[front hugs > duggs]

I wonder if Joy has been around it at all. I could see her not being interested in trying, but she seems close with Austin’s (half) sister Rachel and called her nieces some of best best friends (those nieces are more in line with her age). I THINK Austin’s sister is more secular, but I could be wrong. 

[donnal]

6 minutes ago, viii said:

Likely to drink: JD, Jinger, Joy, and Josiah

Not likely to drink: Jana, Jessa, and Joe

Josh is a wild card. I could see him wanting to drink but I could see Anne not being okay with it. 

Yeah, I feel like even if JD or Joy don’t drink themselves they wouldn’t be too bothered about people they’re around having a drink. Jinger would probably join Jill in a drink if they were out together. Josiah I’m on the fence about. I could see him wanting to drink, but I really feel like he’s had his ability to make his own decisions ALERTed out of him.

Of the non-drinkers, I think Joe wouldn’t approve of people he’s with drinking, but wouldn’t say anything about it either. I could see Jana and Jessa making a disapproving comment though if Jill ordered a drink while out with them. Or at least giving majorly judgemental side-eye.

[Kelsey]

I also saw the q and a. Jill seems to have really come a long way. She definitely sounds like someone that has been to a real therapist and uses all the buzz words. She also rolled her eyes at Derrick when he said he was catching her up on the public school reading list. I'd like to know her thoughts on maybe attending higher education once Derrick is done.

[FluffySnowball]

2 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Does Derick explain what changed his mind about alcohol? Previously he has said they don’t drink.

They don’t explain their decision in depth, but Derick or Jill (I cannot remember who) said something along the lines of wanting to be an example to their children so they learn to be moderate when it comes to alcohol, and in regards to other topics areas as well. So they say neither one of them has ever consumed alcohol to the point of being drunk, but they do occasionally drink a little and find this acceptable. 

39 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

I also saw the q and a. Jill seems to have really come a long way. She definitely sounds like someone that has been to a real therapist and uses all the buzz words. She also rolled her eyes at Derrick when he said he was catching her up on the public school reading list. I'd like to know her thoughts on maybe attending higher education once Derrick is done.

I saw that, too. Well, good on her. At least she allows herself to be a little sassy, that’s much better than adopting a sheepish stare like Michelle.
And while Jill didn’t discuss her future plans, I felt like she stressed that she’s home during her current season of life. If I recall correctly, she even said that while Derick is still in law school and the kids are young, she doesn’t want to add more to their schedule. So I got the impression she might do something except being a housewife/SAHM further down the road. Who knows... 

Edited September 16, 2020 by FluffySnowball

[samurai_sarah]

Please follow me in an orderly fashion to the new thread.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by samurai_sarah