Bontragers/Bowers 5: It Is Really not Okay to Date Your Brother

[NancyDrewFan1989]

5 hours ago, petrushka said:

Poor Josh.  He really really really wants to be the intellectual member of the Bontrager family, but unfortunately he falls short; he doesn't see his writings are on par with a high school junior. Maybe.  

I really think Josh is so focused on getting into a career in politics that he doesn't notice his short comings. Every post I read from Josh comes off as a teenager who is bored with high school life trying to jump start a career with no experience. Josh and the Bontragers have posted about his interest in having a political career that it scares me to think about how unprepared he is for holding an office with how immature he comes off as. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

I really think Josh is so focused on getting into a career in politics that he doesn't notice his short comings. Every post I read from Josh comes off as a teenager who is bored with high school life trying to jump start a career with no experience. Josh and the Bontragers have posted about his interest in having a political career that it scares me to think about how unprepared he is for holding an office with how immature he comes off as. 

This is exactly why people like Josh need to get out of their fundie bubble and make friends with people different from him. I bet $1,000,000 that if I said this to him, he would say he’s met people from all over the world. And I bet that’s true. But it’s likely the vast majority of those people are conservative or fundie Christians. If he met people from different faiths and backgrounds, I think he would be a little more self aware. I’m not saying he would suddenly change or anything. But he wouldn’t come off so smug and immature.

[NancyDrewFan1989]

All this talk about Josh plagiarizing is really upsetting. He clearly thinks that by stealing others work and doing enough editing with allow him to get where he wants to go. It wouldn't surprise me if in the future Josh finds himself front and center of a lawsuit and/or scandal due to his stealing of others work. Then again, he is trying have a career in politics and politicians are known for cheating. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is exactly why people like Josh need to get out of their fundie bubble and make friends with people different from him. I bet $1,000,000 that if I said this to him, he would say he’s met people from all over the world. And I bet that’s true. But it’s likely the vast majority of those people are conservative or fundie Christians. If he met people from different faiths and backgrounds, I think he would be a little more self aware. I’m not saying he would suddenly change or anything. But he wouldn’t come off so smug and immature.

No kidding, every now and then I will find a blog post by a fundie written about meeting people from other countries and learning about their ways. But, they are conservative Christians that follow the families beliefs. It really irks me how the Bontragers have treated the subjects of World War II and the Holocaust because they seem more focused on all the good God fearing Christians rather than those who lost their lives because they weren't good God fearing Christians. 

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Is the Reverend Joshie Boy the Bontrager son who allegedly has an online college degree through Governor's State or some such? Or is that Carson?

It's Josh. 

 

43 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

I wonder if Josh even knows that what he did is plagiarism. Even though he changes words here and there he can still get into trouble with the original writers, especially since he is trying to get a career in politics. Knowing Josh he is going to start giving speeches using the same method since he is pursuing a career that requires him to be in the spotlight. Yes, he did make changes. But, it is still possible that he could find himself the middle of a scandal and/or lawsuit by the original author even with all of the changes. 

I wonder if he knows as well. He wasn't given a stellar education. I can't imagine someone being taught what plagiarism is not understanding how shallow it also is? It's usually very clear when someone has copied & pasted words - they lack depth & nuance. Especially when the "editing" is particularly bad and attempts at rearranging words/phrases and replacing  words are the best you can do to mask the fact you took someone else's words.  

[SisterCupcake]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Is the Reverend Joshie Boy the Bontrager son who allegedly has an online college degree through Governor's State or some such? Or is that Carson?

Yes, through Thomas Edison State University. The college is really good at distance learning. I was taking courses through them in the early 2000s while I was in the military.

[NancyDrewFan1989]

4 hours ago, fundiefan said:

It's Josh. 

 

I wonder if he knows as well. He wasn't given a stellar education. I can't imagine someone being taught what plagiarism is not understanding how shallow it also is? It's usually very clear when someone has copied & pasted words - they lack depth & nuance. Especially when the "editing" is particularly bad and attempts at rearranging words/phrases and replacing  words are the best you can do to mask the fact you took someone else's words.  

I highly doubt he knows 

[Lgirlrocks]

My grandmas friend passed away the other day. She was 98 and a holocaust survivor. She was 20 when she was put in a camp. She was the sweetest women you would ever meet. She was jewish. Never converted. Always had a smile on her face. If heaven exist she is there. Josh, unless he changes his ways, won’t be joining her. He is such an ignorant person. 

[ElizaB]

I remember seeing a post about their Christmas show. I saw they had some cool live animals and that the costumes looked really well done. I was starting to think that maybe it was kind of a neat show. Then I read about the plot and I was SHOCKED that anyone would think that was ok. The thing is had they just done a normal (not offensive) Christmas story (maybe even the actual Christmas story) I bet the show would have drawn in people outside their church as well. I mean families would be intrigued by a live camel. 

Perhaps attendance as fine and it wasn't such a big deal. However, I feel like if "witnessing" to outsiders is their goal they should perhaps present their message in a less offensive way. This may sound strange but I feel like I could "witness" to others so much better than the fundies I have seen- even though this is something I don't have any desire to do! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

41 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

I remember seeing a post about their Christmas show. I saw they had some cool live animals and that the costumes looked really well done. I was starting to think that maybe it was kind of a neat show. Then I read about the plot and I was SHOCKED that anyone would think that was ok. The thing is had they just done a normal (not offensive) Christmas story (maybe even the actual Christmas story) I bet the show would have drawn in people outside their church as well. I mean families would be intrigued by a live camel. 

Perhaps attendance as fine and it wasn't such a big deal. However, I feel like if "witnessing" to outsiders is their goal they should perhaps present their message in a less offensive way. This may sound strange but I feel like I could "witness" to others so much better than the fundies I have seen- even though this is something I don't have any desire to do! 

I completely agree. There were animals around where Jesus was supposed to be born. Just do a Jesus story with animals for a Christmas play and families will love it. No Jews converting to Christianity needed.

[fundiefan]

So, I went to the Bontrager blog to read about their live Xmas thing because I really couldn't wrap my head around turning the typical Christian story of christmas into a Jew converting.

And, because I am bored, I started jumping around the blog. 

Forgive me if this is old news but it just knocked my socks off - the whole "small fundie world" and how they all lead back to each other somehow...anyway, in 2008 Chelsy posted they went to the father-daughter retreat in Georgia at Callway Gardens. Curious, I googled the gardens with the "father daughter retreat" words attached. 

And guess what I found? It was a Vision Forum father daughter "retreat"; that was hit #1. I thought, "figures, the fundie world actually is that small". The next hit - The (infamous Cap'n) Bret Smith & daughters were at the same retreat, along with Frank Campana & his female offspring as well as the Sanders girls & their daddy. Hit #3 was no surprise - Blair Brown (now Tsantles).

I didn't know the Bontragers had any ties to VF. Admittedly, I barely knew who they were before the John & Chelsy hookup, but I figured by now I'd have read something about it? Regardless, I want a beer now because for reasons I can't actually fathom, this is like actual news to me. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

18 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

So, I went to the Bontrager blog to read about their live Xmas thing because I really couldn't wrap my head around turning the typical Christian story of christmas into a Jew converting.

And, because I am bored, I started jumping around the blog. 

Forgive me if this is old news but it just knocked my socks off - the whole "small fundie world" and how they all lead back to each other somehow...anyway, in 2008 Chelsy posted they went to the father-daughter retreat in Georgia at Callway Gardens. Curious, I googled the gardens with the "father daughter retreat" words attached. 

And guess what I found? It was a Vision Forum father daughter "retreat"; that was hit #1. I thought, "figures, the fundie world actually is that small". The next hit - The (infamous Cap'n) Bret Smith & daughters were at the same retreat, along with Frank Campana & his female offspring as well as the Sanders girls & their daddy. Hit #3 was no surprise - Blair Brown (now Tsantles).

I didn't know the Bontragers had any ties to VF. Admittedly, I barely knew who they were before the John & Chelsy hookup, but I figured by now I'd have read something about it? Regardless, I want a beer now because for reasons I can't actually fathom, this is like actual news to me. 

We figured this out a few years ago. They used to hang out with some VFers. They attended the funeral of Dougie’s dad and posted about it on the blog. But I don’t think we’ve seen much interaction with some VF folks after the big blow up. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:30 PM, fundiefan said:

So, I went to the Bontrager blog to read about their live Xmas thing because I really couldn't wrap my head around turning the typical Christian story of christmas into a Jew converting.

And, because I am bored, I started jumping around the blog. 

Forgive me if this is old news but it just knocked my socks off - the whole "small fundie world" and how they all lead back to each other somehow...anyway, in 2008 Chelsy posted they went to the father-daughter retreat in Georgia at Callway Gardens. Curious, I googled the gardens with the "father daughter retreat" words attached. 

And guess what I found? It was a Vision Forum father daughter "retreat"; that was hit #1. I thought, "figures, the fundie world actually is that small". The next hit - The (infamous Cap'n) Bret Smith & daughters were at the same retreat, along with Frank Campana & his female offspring as well as the Sanders girls & their daddy. Hit #3 was no surprise - Blair Brown (now Tsantles).

I didn't know the Bontragers had any ties to VF. Admittedly, I barely knew who they were before the John & Chelsy hookup, but I figured by now I'd have read something about it? Regardless, I want a beer now because for reasons I can't actually fathom, this is like actual news to me. 

The VF connection really didn't shock me at all. For some reason most fundies have a connection to VF. I remember one of the Neely girls, I think Kathryn, did a post about how Doug Phillips failed because there weren't enough people praying for him or something like that. I believe the Staddon's, Maxwells, Duggars, and Bates had, at some point, listed Vision Forum as a source for good material or something like. 

On 5/14/2020 at 1:24 PM, ElizaB said:

I remember seeing a post about their Christmas show. I saw they had some cool live animals and that the costumes looked really well done. I was starting to think that maybe it was kind of a neat show. Then I read about the plot and I was SHOCKED that anyone would think that was ok. The thing is had they just done a normal (not offensive) Christmas story (maybe even the actual Christmas story) I bet the show would have drawn in people outside their church as well. I mean families would be intrigued by a live camel. 

Perhaps attendance as fine and it wasn't such a big deal. However, I feel like if "witnessing" to outsiders is their goal they should perhaps present their message in a less offensive way. This may sound strange but I feel like I could "witness" to others so much better than the fundies I have seen- even though this is something I don't have any desire to do! 

The biggest problem I had with the Christmas show is that the idea was cooked up with a team of people from inside the church the Bontragers attend. It wasn't just Marlin and Becky writing the script, it was a whole team of people who thought the content was okay. I don't believe the Bontragers were involved in writing the script, but they did participate and didn't see anything wrong with it. It makes me sad and sick to think that there are other fundies out there who feel that the Holocaust is a "good" way to share a conversion story when it is NOT.

[ElizaB]

The Christmas show made me sad for the Bontragers kids because reading the post you can tell how into the production they were. I just kept thinking what fun some of these kids would have being "theater kids" in high school. 

[Hane]

On 5/7/2020 at 1:37 PM, therulesofjinx said:

Maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't want a bunch of photos of me with the chicken pox posted on a public blog! Not only is it unflattering- I remember feeling like absolute crap when I had chicken pox (I got very, very sick) and certainly wasn't smiling for any cameras....

I’m still bummed that my mom took a hideously unflattering picture of me with the mumps when I was 11. (It took some effort because back then it took a camera with film and taking the film to the drug store to get it developed.) It was summer and I was sick as a dog. I’ll never forget how painful that illness was, and thank God my daughter and kids everywhere will never have to suffer from it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It seems that Liz herself is the one who wrote the blog post. So she likely chose the pictures. However I will say that the Bontragers (especially the girls) are expected to basically suck it up and smile. Sort of like the Gothard approach of keeping sweet and always smiling. Even when you don’t feel like smiling.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can’t believe the Boners (Bontrager/Bowers name combo) Boys still held that stupid mighty men camp. I hope the numbers were very small. I see one Duggar went. I imagine he didn’t travel alone. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[katilac]

I love that the one kid is wearing the "If you died tonight, would you go to heaven or hell?" t-shirt at Jesus camp

[Melissa1977]

Fundies are control freaks, isolate children, do not allow boys and girls to be friends, "date" siblings and have a ridiculous and damaging purity culture to protect kids from sin.... And then send their sons to a manly camp full of manly boys showing their muscles and hugging??? Are they so sure that any of their boys cannot be tempted by other boys?

[ElizaB]

What's ironic to me is that Fundies constantly preach, "Isolate! Protect!" and the one time the rest of the world actually agrees with them they refuse to do it. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by ElizaB
typo

[fundiefan]

I shared the "Might Men" link with some friends back when it was first posted/found. We joked about it, snarked - a mini FJ snark fest, really. 

I forgot about it. Until this weekend when one of those friends posted it to her Facebook. The comments were pretty inspiring. A lot more people find this kind of crap ridiculous & dangerous than I realize/remember. It made feel better about humanity. I spend so much time fundie-watching, I guess I sometimes lose sight of the fact that their world is not THE world and the fact I find their ways dangerous, among other things, does not make me the "weird" one. 

It's just nice to know that it really is them and not me. 

 

[HereticHick]

So are the two boys in Bama shirts Bowers?  I see when I search the phrase "mighty men camp" in Insta, I also get a post by a kid named Tristan Jamal Miller

[JermajestyDuggar]

35 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

What's ironic to me is that Fundies constantly preach, "Isolate! Protect!" and the one time the rest of the world actually agrees with them they refuse to do it. 

It’s because fundies are just contrarians. They want to always be different from mainstream culture. They are different. They are special. They are unique. Therefore they will alwayswant to do the opposite of the norm. 

10 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

So are the two boys in Bama shirts Bowers?  I see when I search the phrase "mighty men camp" in Insta, I also get a post by a kid named Tristan Jamal Miller

Yes. And the little one in turquoise is a Bowers boy. Then there is Jackson Duggar. My guess is that at least another Duggar teen accompanied him. Possibly more. We know the Bontrager boys were there also since they help run the event. The boy in the red is Kendra Caldwell’s brother. 

[Jana814]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Fundies are control freaks, isolate children, do not allow boys and girls to be friends, "date" siblings and have a ridiculous and damaging purity culture to protect kids from sin.... And then send their sons to a manly camp full of manly boys showing their muscles and hugging??? Are they so sure that any of their boys cannot be tempted by other boys?

You summed up fundie in this one post!  I completely agree! 

[HereticHick]

So mighty. Much men.

Camp lecture topics include:

--20 fun ideas for a date with your sister!

--Your manhood: are your sisters sufficiently defending it?

--Wide stancin'