Duggars Raided by Homeland Security

[BernRul]

12 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

But did she have a way out psychologically? The hold these cults have on their members, especially when generations of family are within, can be incredible.  

Frankly, the only ones I think who get out are those who are super strong, and/or highly intelligent, or extremely independent, even eccentric, or too artistic/creative for the structure of the culture, members of the LGBTQ community and possibly some sociopaths who aren’t bound by family ties or affection. 

I think even people who have been terribly abused stay in these cults. It’s very hard to break free psychologically without a certain kind of stepping stone. 

I do feel some pity for members of the cult at times. And there’s been something about Anna that for me is always hopeful and slightly innocent. I can’t explain.  

Even though she has siblings outside I think she is fully vested psychologically and really doesn’t have the vocabulary nor can comprehend leaving. 

 In her mind anything bad that Josh has done that had to do with something sexual is her fault or someone else’s fault. As we know, that’s what the cult teaches it’s members. 

But here's the thing. If Anna gets a pass because she was raised in this cult and is stunted and innocent, why doesn't Josh? After all he was stunted too. He's also being forced to live a life he doesn't want (he didn't want 6 kids only 2 ish, and didn't want to be a car salesman over a lawyer). He's also been sheltered and stunted. So why does Anna get a pass but not Josh? 

If Anna isn't responsible for staying with Josh due to her upbringing, then none of the adults raised in the cult are either. We can't keep picking and choosing. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I think we're projecting way too much into Anna staying with the girls in their room. Maybe at the time the guest room was occupied by someone or something else. My guess is, however, that she stayed there so the other girls could help her with the little kids during the day but especially at night. Meredith was a teeny tiny infant. Anna was devastated and a mess. IIRC she mentioned being barely able to decide what to do next so she could only focus on 15 minutes at a time. That sounded Teri Maxwell level depressed. Maybe she was glad about not having to be alone. We don't know so many things or reasons and explanations of the snippets we see on TV, it's hard to draw conclusions from that. 

True. Also, Anna did stay in the private area in the girls’ room that had been created for Jana. (It was blocked off by clothes racks and a piano, as I recall.)

[AussieKrissy]

26 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Everyone in those pictures looks very tense. The kids are not have a good time. It's almost like they did this trip just to have pictures to make people believe all is well. 

anna looks the most tense, could be heavily pregnant tense to be fair....

[Johannah]

Wonder what Josh thinks about his SOTDRT and college minus educational “opportunities” now that his own brother-in-law is getting a law degree and he’s selling cars in shame. 

[neuroticcat]

26 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

no, did you happen to get a screen shot of it?

Can you unlike a comment if you do it by accident? I assume so because you can unlike pics.

No but if you google it someone else had a screenshot. 

[SilverBeach]

22 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

Frankly, the only ones I think who get out are those who are super strong, and/or highly intelligent, or extremely independent, even eccentric, or too artistic/creative for the structure of the culture, members of the LGBTQ community and possibly some sociopaths who aren’t bound by family ties or affection. 

Those who have left the FLDS cults are examples of how indoctrination from birth can be overcome. I admire them greatly.  I don't think they fit any of the categories you describe. From the books I've read, they knew at some point (often after terrible abuse) that the group was morally wrong and harmful and they had to get out. Leaving was very difficult as they had little to no exposure to the outside world, never wearing modern clothing even.  They lost their families. Yet they did it. The Duggars are comfortable and lack motivation to leave the cult, and the adults are deciding to stay in. 

[neuroticcat]

So looking on the Wholesale Motorcars Facebook page, a guy named Josh MW is the admin for the page and posts a lot of the inventory. Possibly an owner? I vaguely remember an early 19K about the car lot and multiple Josh’s working there, so maybe the same guy/owner? Though I imagine JB is actual owner, though I can’t find confirmation.

There’s also someone named “Randall” mentioned is the reviews as s salesperson. Perhaps HSI was investigating one of them? Do those names ring any bells?

Incidentally, two of the handful of reviews (and two of the only really positive ones) come from David Waller and...Caleb Williams.

[SilverBeach]

14 minutes ago, BernRul said:

If Anna gets a pass because she was raised in this cult and is stunted and innocent, why doesn't Josh?

Anna gets no pass from me. 

[neuroticcat]

I agree about leaving cults. There has to be some sort of motivation to get out. If it’s “working” for the person -even if the situation is abusive...they’ll stay. 

 

[Cleopatra7]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

Those who have left the FLDS cults are examples of how indoctrination from birth can be overcome. I admire them greatly.  I don't think they fit any of the categories you describe. From the books I've read, they knew at some point (often after terrible abuse) that the group was morally wrong and harmful and they had to get out. Leaving was very difficult as they had little to no exposure to the outside world, never wearing modern clothing even.  They lost their families. Yet they did it. The Duggars are comfortable and lack motivation to leave the cult, and the adults are deciding to stay in. 

The impression I get is that the FLDS has become so overtly abusive that it’s forcing people to leave who might have stayed under a less authoritarian administration. It’s just that unbearable. As long as JB and Michelle can gift/grift their kids houses, cars, jobs, TV shows, and maybe political positions, they have no need to question anything.

[SilverBeach]

4 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The impression I get is that the FLDS has become so overtly abusive that it’s forcing people to leave who might have stayed under a less authoritarian administration. It’s just that unbearable. As long as JB and Michelle can gift/grift their kids houses, cars, jobs, TV shows, and maybe political positions, they have no need to question anything.

Based on the books, several who escaped left before Warren Jeffs went to prison and really put everything on lockdown. It's always been horribly abusive. Lots of them stay even with Jeff's continued crazy control. Religious brainwashing is a powerful force, but some folks who stay in cults are not so much brainwashed as they are benefiting, like the Duggars. 

[SillyDillys]

Its so hard for me to feel sorry for Anna, she was so damn smug and insufferable when her husband worked for FRC. Posting shit about "my good, godly christian marriage." Or that bullshit about if black lives matter why are black women getting abortions?" Crap. She was holier than thou.  When joshly admitted to cheating I had a little cackle, call me an asshole but she was an asshole as well.

[Marmion]

17 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Ok who wants to start taking bets on when and how the news of what really (or as close to) happened is going to break? 
 

I'll bet that the case involves not undocumented immigration , but rather illegal importation of automobiles , from Mexico , which might also be stolen and resold by the likes of Mexican organized crime syndicates .  Remember ICE stands for not only immigration but also customs enforcement .  And speaking of Mexico , the Duggar's cult leader , Bill Gothard  , is of Mexican descent himself . His mother's maiden name was Carmen Christina  Torres . So I would rather doubt that they'd be involved with white supremacy .  And based upon my personal interactions with Gothardites who were part of various Holiness churches I , and or my family have attended , they are sheltered , and even deceptive , but as far as I can tell , they are not white separatist .   

[CaseyGrace]

6 minutes ago, Marmion said:

I'll bet that the case involves not undocumented immigration , but rather illegal importation of automobiles , from Mexico , which might also be stolen and resold by the likes of Mexican organized crime syndicates .  Remember ICE stands for not only immigration but also customs enforcement .  And speaking of Mexico , the Duggar's cult leader , Bill Gothard  , is of Mexican descent himself . His mother's maiden name was Carmen Christina  Torres . So I would rather doubt that they'd be involved with white supremacy .  And based upon my personal interactions with Gothardites who were part of various Holiness churches I , and or my family have attended , they are sheltered , and even deceptive , but as far as I can tell , they are not white separatist .   

But being Mexican doesn't mean your not white, I mean not saying your experiences are wrong, but gothard could very well still be a white man. 

[amendgitan]

On 11/19/2019 at 9:54 PM, IHeartHoney said:

Whoa. The "family helper", an 11yo girl staying with Josh and Anna? This is all news to me. Did anyone know about Emily?

Comes up later in this video:

 

 

Can you believe there are people who would allow their 11 year old girl to reside with that molester? 

16 minutes ago, CaseyGrace said:

But being Mexican doesn't mean your not white, I mean not saying your experiences are wrong, but gothard could very well still be a white man. 

Gosh 100%. The elite in Mexico are almost all of pure European descent. 

[Carol]

I think it's Josh, in the car lot office, with a washer and dryer.

[BernRul]

43 minutes ago, SillyDillys said:

Its so hard for me to feel sorry for Anna, she was so damn smug and insufferable when her husband worked for FRC. Posting shit about "my good, godly christian marriage." Or that bullshit about if black lives matter why are black women getting abortions?" Crap. She was holier than thou.  When joshly admitted to cheating I had a little cackle, call me an asshole but she was an asshole as well.

Me too. I feel bad about it, because Anna was in pain, but everyone seemed to forget that this woman is no innocent. She was very smug and holier than thou about all of her conservative talking points. And she is actively raising 6 innocent children in that terrible, repressive lifestyle. 

Sorry, but fuck Anna. She deserves everything that's coming her way. Doubly so because she could have left Josh but didn't. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by BernRul

[nvmbr02]

I still feel bad for Anna. I know I shouldn't, but I do. That being said I do not think she gets a pass. She is an adult and she has made bad choices for herself and continues to make horrible choices for her children. 

[Satan'sFortress]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

So looking on the Wholesale Motorcars Facebook page, a guy named Josh MW is the admin for the page and posts a lot of the inventory. Possibly an owner? I vaguely remember an early 19K about the car lot and multiple Josh’s working there, so maybe the same guy/owner? Though I imagine JB is actual owner, though I can’t find confirmation.

There’s also someone named “Randall” mentioned is the reviews as s salesperson. Perhaps HSI was investigating one of them? Do those names ring any bells?

Incidentally, two of the handful of reviews (and two of the only really positive ones) come from David Waller and...Caleb Williams.

Thanks for posting this.  I am thinking that it might not be Duggar related at all.  Just because it was at Smuggar's workplace doesn't mean it is him. I hope it is him. I hope it is some financial thing that will take him down, but I am cautiously nervous that it isn't going to be him at all. And that Trump will be acquitted. ?

[Coco]

Plus do they have any regular couple friends or family that she could use as positive role models? Friends with kids in public school and typical kid activities who have flourished rather than the false rumors fundies tell themselves to justify the isolation. If she's been raised from a child to think sin is the default mode rather than just see people as naturally good and kind they're probably terrified to get out of their system and trust the outside world. She'd have to pretty much give up her religion to give up her marriage, and break out of that whole conservative mindset. The evil genius of lifestyle cults is the enslavement of the mind. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

Note: Not condoning any of Josh's past activities. But here are my thoughts on him and his life. All of the adults in Josh's life have failed him. The only thing Jim Bob and Michelle cared about was their image when Josh got busted sexually assaulting his sisters. At the time Jim Bob was pursuing a political career and the family started to get national recognition for them having so many kids. Jim Bob and Michelle brought Josh to church where the elders had Josh get beaten up and shaved his head. They then sent him off to IBLP where he didn't receive the mental health treatment he needed. Most likely he was locked in a closet and forced to pray for forgiveness. The two of them thought it would all go away by marrying him off to the first gullible family that wouldn't ask too many questions. Then in 2015 everything came to light followed by it getting out Josh had an addiction to pornography and an Ashley Madison account. They sent him off to rehab again. The only difference is this time they Josh was married with a family. The solution this time was to force Josh and Anna and kids to move onto the compound where Josh would be treated like a teenager with limited internet access, had a curfew, and a flip phone. Now it looks like Josh got involved in something that grabbed the attention of Homeland Security. This time they are hoping to deflect the negative attention by saying that their home was not raided and their family members are not subject to an investigation. Jim Bob and Michelle have completely failed Josh. When Josh got in trouble the first time they chose fame and fortune over Josh getting the help he needed.

Like I said, not condoning Josh's activities. But, Jim Bob and Michelle didn't help him out either. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by NancyDrewFan1989
Update

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

2 hours ago, Johannah said:

I can’t believe Anna is at a theme park at nearly 40 weeks pregnant! And Silver Dollar City is more than a 2 hour drive from their home!

Anna gets treated like crap by that family, she must have Stockholm Syndrome.  I would be gone and busy writing a book, maybe in partnership with Derick.

[amendgitan]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:58 AM, countrytennesseangirl_09 said:

 

Haven’t they already proved they’re not sweet? How are people who go after transpersons and let their son molest when daughters, and then essentially blame the victims by separating the rooms, making them yell Nike every two seconds, instructing the girls to not sit or dress a certain way and not allowing the boys to change diapers so they won’t be “tempted”, in any way sweet?

On 11/20/2019 at 10:33 AM, closetcagebaby said:

Federal crimes don’t necessarily mean “worse” - it usually means it involves crime in more than one state or across state lines. 

Jurisdiction for federal crimes includes anything happening on federal lands, or US waters and airspace, federal issues like taxes and social security, anything involving interstate commerce including the mail, Internet, phones, banking, any business that gets products from other states or does any business that isn’t solely contained within one state’s boundaries, and of course human trafficking, sex trafficking, terrorism, etc. 

There are different agencies that are involved in different federal crimes. Like the ATF, Homeland Security, FBI, and so on. 

[RosyDaisy]

One of Josh's victims was 5 years old.  Because of that, all the talk of a sexually repressed teen with shitty parents who failed him goes out the window.

[Glasgowghirl]

4 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

One of Josh's victims was 5 years old.  Because of that, all the talk of a sexually repressed teen with shitty parents who failed him goes out the window.

Yes, that can't be ignored. While I hope he has and will never abuse anyone, let alone a young child again, I personally wouldn't trust him alone with young children. He never received any punishment or proper treatment either.