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usmcmom

Duggars Raided by Homeland Security

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Flyinthesoup

On the Thursday evening news at 6 pm, NWA did a video update to amend their story.  So a business "associated with Josh Douggar", Wholesale Mortorcars is the target of investigation.  How on earth does this match up with the Duggar's statement of "...no member of our family is a target of any investigation of any kind.....".  So just because it's the business associated with Josh, but not the person who runs it, makes it OK to give a misleading statement?  

Edited by Flyinthesoup
fixing link...I hope.

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RosyDaisy
1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Not the reality family most closely identified with the massive one, although they have their own set of issues going on related to money laundering. 

I take this to mean the Bates aren't other family involved, but the Bates are having money laundering issues of their own.

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neuroticcat
1 hour ago, Flyinthesoup said:

The used car lot has me confused.  Those in the know, is Champion Motorcars the name of the car lot, now that the other two brothers run it?  When I looked the other day for Wholesale Motorcars the website was different from today, and I did find a cached page with the other information.  Are these two separate or one in the same?  The Facebook pages has them linked to the same address, which is why I am confused. 

Those are two separate lots but both run by the Duggars. We know from the show that Joe, Josiah, and the twins are all involved in used car sales in some fashion.

Wholesale Motorcars is the one HSI went to. I am unclear who owns it but Josh is a point of contact - and another Josh and a Randall are mentioned on the Facebook page as employees if some kind.

8 minutes ago, Flyinthesoup said:

On the Thursday evening news at 6 pm, NWA did a video update to amend their story.  So a business "associated with Josh Douggar", Wholesale Mortorcars is the target of investigation.  How on earth does this match up with the Duggar's statement of "...no member of our family is a target of any investigation of any kind.....".  So just because it's the business associated with Josh, but not the person who runs it, makes it OK to give a misleading statement?  

I definitely think their statement was sketchy...yet to be seen how much. But we can’t discount that HSI was at the lot for other reasons than Josh. We don’t even really know how Josh is connected to the lot anymore. He is not the owner (not sure how to find out who is). They could have gone there to investigate one of the other employees or something with the merchandise.

In my opinion, it’s not likely, but it is possible it really has nothing to do with the Duggars.

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QuiverFullofBooks
36 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

I take this to mean the Bates aren't other family involved, but the Bates are having money laundering issues of their own.

Somehow I find that hilarious. Surely Gil’s too lazy for white collar crime?

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Wine time!
Snarkasarus Rex

The Duggar family lawyer, Travis Story Esq., is the ‘registered agent’ for Fivestone Group dba Wholesale Motorcars. Story and the family’s tax preparer, Jimmy Burns, are listed as the ‘officers’.  So no Duggars involved in ownership?  Not quite...the principal address for the business is the Duggars’ home address. 🙄

They’ve successfully taken Josh’s name off any company/property ownership, which they started to do when he first got into legal trouble.  But they can’t say they aren’t involved, because their fingerprints are still all over these things. And I don’t think their associates will take the fall for them.. they certainly wouldn’t return the favor.

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NancyDrewFan1989
3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

To the bolded, can you specify where you found this information or heard or saw these rumors?  Or is this only speculation or wild guesses?

Let's just say that your claims don't jive with my recollections of what was made public at the time.  Or the photographic evidence of various Keller family reunions over the years.  Or what Keller family members have said when they visited us on FJ in the past.

 

Here are a few links:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithgoespop/2012/08/meet-the-kellers-the-duggars-in-laws/

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/01/jill-duggar-forbidden-from-helping-susanna-keller-unwed-relative/

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/anna-duggars-brother-daniel-keller-rips-pig-josh-duggar-on-facebook-2015248/

https://starcasm.net/anna-duggars-parent-extreme-duggars-probably-didnt-know-meaning-rape-got-married/

http://duggarswithoutpity.blogspot.com/2009/01/insights-from-insider.html

Most of them are rumored from years ago when the Keller children started to leave the fold. 

Also, in past threads around the time of Anna giving birth to Michael this was discussed. There are a few threads on here where it was rumored that the Kellers had cut off communication with Daniel. I am not one hundred percent positive on the rift with Susanna, but there is said to be some distance when she got pregnant out of wedlock. Josh MacDonald, Rebekah's ex husband, reportedly stated that the family doesn't like him around the time of Priscilla's wedding and blasted TLC for the way they formatted Josh and Anna's wedding.

Edited by NancyDrewFan1989
Update

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JesusPony

I've been distracted this week by a different criminal reality star (rhymes with rump), so I missed news of the potential Duggar-pocalypse until today.

The speculation about possible money laundering is where I'm leaning. They have created so many LLCs recently. Somebody on Reddit made a list: 

Their Medicorps buffoonery pissed off some people and could have drawn attention from the feds. Once the feds start poking through the Duggars' dealings, there's probably gonna be a lot of "buy used, steal the difference" type of stuff laying around. 

Maybe if you don't give your kids the tools to become productive members of secular society, they become criminals because that's the only way to support themselves. Nice going, JB.

Anyway, gun-toting religious nut has compound raided... Branch Boobidians? 

I'll see myself out...

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EmCatlyn
8 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

My own memories were vague so I looked it up.  We obviously don't know exactly what Daniel Keller said to Anna but he was pretty outspoken in public, bless him.  And most of the contemporary articles are similar to this.  https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/anna-duggars-brother-daniel-keller-rips-pig-josh-duggar-on-facebook-2015248/

[snip]

My own take on Anna's decision to stay with Josh is that she was actually being true to her faith.  Mind boggling though that might be.

Anna genuinely meant her marriage vows and kept them.  Josh did not.  She gave him the benefit of the doubt back in 2015.   I would have kicked his butt out.  She believed he was truly repentant.  I think she is kidding herself.

I also think she genuinely loves children and babies, is fully QF in every sense of the word, and is breeding babies for God.   She may be using Joshie as a sperm donor for that cause, in spite of everything else.  And the "forgiving" saintly wife may have the sex addict by the short hairs behind the scenes.  I don't know.

[snip]

 If Josh screws around again on Anna (or, God forbid, ever touches another child) she may not repeat the mistake of staying with him.  Who knows.

Thanks for checking the news from that time.  So I was remembering correctly that the brother offered to pay for Anna and the kids to get away from Josh.  It sounded as if he was suggesting that Josh would not truly repent (be broken) if Anna stayed, which in some ways may be true. (Though I think Josh is not likely to fully repent because he is too self-centered.)

As for Anna, I agree that she is acting on faith and may see herself as doing God’s will etc.   But it is also the path of least resistance, the “easy” choice for her,  not to question, not to think for herself, not to see.  

 

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Iamtheway
8 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Meanwhile, I'm like 90% sure I can take Josh Duggar in a fight. 

Now THAT’S a show I want to see! :popcorn2:

5 hours ago, viii said:

Depends on the fundie sect. In the cult I was raised in, it was taught god first, spouse second, children third. And that was taught to everyone. 

It’s the complete opposite of the heathen sect I plan to start based on my believes. Children first, spouse second, god never. 

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welshdoll
On 11/20/2019 at 9:31 PM, Perrierwithlemon said:

Me, earlier this year: FJ will be crazy in November because of baby palooza!

Homeland Security and Duggar karma: hold my beer. 

Perrierwithlemon: as far as I’m concerned, you win best comment. Ever.

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ViolaSebastian
37 minutes ago, JesusPony said:

Anyway, gun-toting religious nut has compound raided... Branch Boobidians? 

I'll see myself out...

Spoiler

F681D9FA-EB86-4074-8ADA-5121F2092C68.gif.154d2ed699f2976ba19c916ca255cfc5.gif

 

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SilverBeach
7 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

It is cyclical.  Also remember that potential scandals bring people out of lurkdom.  And we have a steady influx of new members all the time, so some people weren't around the last 99 times any given subject was discussed.  They get to give their opinions.  :)

When did people start calling Josh Duggar the "sex pest?"  It seems to trivialise the issue. He's a lot worse than a mere pest.

I realize that some current members were not around for the original discussions. Of course they get to give their opinions, I never said anything to the contrary. I know how to scroll by whatever I don't want to read, just made an observation I found amusing, that's all. 

Sex pest is apparently a British term for people accused/convicted of a sex crime, please chime in British FJer's. I first saw this term here on FJ and felt it was appropriate for Josh. Not trivializing a damn thing he has done, but I don't think the British mean to do that either. Pest has a different meaning in this context.

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ati_escapee
 
 
 
 
2
5 hours ago, amendgitan said:

How do you know that though? 

The behavior of the people involved seems to contradict that notion. Her parents didn’t freak out and she kept having kids with him and stayed when that came out. 

Except Anna has never been fundie lite and she has never been “around non-fundie people most of the time” so I’m not sure comparing your knowledge and life experience to Anna Duggar’s makes a lot of sense. You know what I mean? 

She grew up insanely sheltered and never knew different like you did. 

Maybe I should have compared her to other fundies I knew, who did realize that their life was a joke and did escape. That would have been a better comparison. You're right, her life isn't comparable to mine but she has to know that this is ridiculous.

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amendgitan
16 minutes ago, ati_escapee said:

Maybe I should have compared her to other fundies I knew, who did realize that their life was a joke and did escape. That would have been a better comparison. You're right, her life isn't comparable to mine but she has to know that this is ridiculous.

One would think. But I’m not sure she does! Almost every one that matters to her or that she’s in contact with is telling her to ignore any instincts she might have. 

Hell, she might not have any left due to the years of isolation and programming! 

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EmCatlyn
6 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

That is just it, Anna doesn't get it at all. She comes off like the entitled fundie who thinks everyone will cover for her. When I said she "trusts her parents" I meant that she trusts them to help her out with decisions when Josh screws up. It's like she needs their permission for everything she does even though she is married.

[snip]

As for Anna in general I think she is terrified to leave Josh and the Duggar compound. If she does it will be a highly publicized divorce in the fundie community. Plus this will be the third Keller child to go through a divorce. To add insult to injury the Duggars are going to be in damage control mode that would affect Anna in  the long run by either taking the children away or her ability to find a job. On top of that she has limited education by being raised in a bubble of doing everything everyone tells you to do and you will have a good life blessed by God. Her whole life is warped by her parents messed up beliefs.

Yeah.  As I said, I feel sorry for hers.  Others have compared her to a victim of abuse, and I think there is something there.  That being said she is still someone who has had more choices than many others in her world.  Even if she was estranged from her brother (and I think you are right that she  may have believed he was going straight to hell) the fact is that he and two of her sisters got outside the cult shows that there are other options.

Anna has made a choice. She is to be pitied, but not really excused.

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

To the bolded, can you specify where you found this information or heard or saw these rumors?  Or is this only speculation or wild guesses?

Let's just say that your claims don't jive with my recollections of what was made public at the time.  Or the photographic evidence of various Keller family reunions over the years.  Or what Keller family members have said when they visited us on FJ in the past.

 

I don’t know about the break between Daniel and his parents, but I remember reading that JB objected to his (then unmarried) daughters being around Susannah (The one who got pregnant out of wedlock.).

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tabitha2

I have never heard or read that JB or any other Duggar commented on Anna’s sister either way.  Anna has gone to visit at her at their parents house so it’s not like they are estranged anyway.

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nausicaa

I am surprised at the number of people expressing anger or judgement of Anna for not leaving Josh after the Ashley Madison scandal. To me, her choosing to stay with her husband after infidelity is 100% up to her and doesn't morally affect anyone else. 

My issue with Anna has only ever been having children with Josh after knowing the full extent of his molestations (the full story may have been kept from her when engaged, but she had access to the released police report in 2014 like everyone else) and without at least having him complete real treatment for it. And to a lesser extent, having children with her husband when their marriage doesn't seem very stable and he is clearly going through some issues. 

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

And whether or not Josh is actually at risk to re-offend as an adult, he has already proven that children are not safe in his care. It should be assumed that that's still the case until something proves otherwise.

Agree all on counts. I'm not strongly partisan on whether or not Josh meets the definition of a pedophile, but I find it odd that some people argue that Josh only molested his much younger sisters because he was sexually repressed and they were convenient victims he could physically and mentally overpower-- as if that means children are now safe around Josh.

Even if he isn't a pedophile by any definition, who is to say he won't do the same thing as an adult if he experiences sexual frustration again? He has established he is capable of it and has received no treatment or been taught anything about a healthy consensual adult sexuality. 

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quiversR4hunting
10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

...snip...Meanwhile, I'm like 90% sure I can take Josh Duggar in a fight. 

Do you have boobs? If so, I bet all you have to do is show them to him and he will be on the floor. 

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NancyDrewFan1989
1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Yeah.  As I said, I feel sorry for hers.  Others have compared her to a victim of abuse, and I think there is something there.  That being said she is still someone who has had more choices than many others in her world.  Even if she was estranged from her brother (and I think you are right that she  may have believed he was going straight to hell) the fact is that he and two of her sisters got outside the cult shows that there are other options.

Anna has made a choice. She is to be pitied, but not really excused.

I don’t know about the break between Daniel and his parents, but I remember reading that JB objected to his (then unmarried) daughters being around Susannah (The one who got pregnant out of wedlock.).

Honestly, I don't know how to feel about Anna. On one hand I feel for her and the children. On the other, you are right, she does have role model siblings who have escaped living perfectly normal lives. I just can't help but wonder what goes through her mind when she sees Daniel, Suze, and Rebekah having a wonderful life while she is stuck in Duggarville. Everything about her upbringing is just wrong. Everyone around her failed her growing up, now she is failing as an adult because of it. 

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Meh
AliceInFundyland
11 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Honestly, I don't know how to feel about Anna. On one hand I feel for her and the children. On the other, you are right, she does have role model siblings who have escaped living perfectly normal lives. I just can't help but wonder what goes through her mind when she sees Daniel, Suze, and Rebekah having a wonderful life while she is stuck in Duggarville. Everything about her upbringing is just wrong. Everyone around her failed her growing up, now she is failing as an adult because of it. 

If her level of brainwashing is as deep as many of us think she is then I believe that she "shuns" them. To exist in her world, she has the wonderful life. They're sinful. She's blessed.

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grandmadugger
4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Somehow I find that hilarious. Surely Gil’s too lazy for white collar crime?

Is he smart enough? We know he’s not going to break a sweat doing it but it does take brain power. 

58 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Do you have boobs? If so, I bet all you have to do is show them to him and he will be on the floor. 

I think any Duggar would be on the floor at the sight of boobs. 

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amendgitan
2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I am surprised at the number of people expressing anger or judgement of Anna for not leaving Josh after the Ashley Madison scandal. To me, her choosing to stay with her husband after infidelity is 100% up to her and doesn't morally affect anyone else. 

My issue with Anna has only ever been having children with Josh after knowing the full extent of his molestations (the full story may have been kept from her when engaged, but she had access to the released police report in 2014 like everyone else) and without at least having him complete real treatment for it. And to a lesser extent, having children with her husband when their marriage doesn't seem very stable and he is clearly going through some issues. 

Agree all on counts. I'm not strongly partisan on whether or not Josh meets the definition of a pedophile, but I find it odd that some people argue that Josh only molested his much younger sisters because he was sexually repressed and they were convenient victims he could physically and mentally overpower-- as if that means children are now safe around Josh.

Even if he isn't a pedophile by any definition, who is to say he won't do the same thing as an adult if he experiences sexual frustration again? He has established he is capable of it and has received no treatment or been taught anything about a healthy consensual adult sexuality. 

Good post. The only thing I take issue with is criticizing Anna Duggar for having kids with him after the scandal broke without him having “real treatment”. Anna Duggar has zero concept of “real treatment”. She has no vocabulary for it and no idea what it is, that it exists, or what it can do. 

The only thing she’s likely aware of is how evil humanists can turn a person toward satan with their “psychology”. 

In her world, Josh did receive “real treatment”. There is no other. 

I keep seeing people judging her from the basis of their own cultural contexts. She has no idea about therapy. Zero context for it. 

Expecting her to understand what her pervy husband needs and to take a stand if she doesn’t get this is almost like expecting a hunter gatherer with no access to technology to understand how to google something and to do it. 

There is no framework for Anna Duggar to think she or her husband are doing the wrong thing when it comes to how to address his predatory nature. 

1 hour ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Honestly, I don't know how to feel about Anna. On one hand I feel for her and the children. On the other, you are right, she does have role model siblings who have escaped living perfectly normal lives. I just can't help but wonder what goes through her mind when she sees Daniel, Suze, and Rebekah having a wonderful life while she is stuck in Duggarville. Everything about her upbringing is just wrong. Everyone around her failed her growing up, now she is failing as an adult because of it. 

She probably doesn’t see them as having a good life. She likely sees them as deceived and living in the shadow of the devil, surrounded by grave danger. 

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amendgitan
41 minutes ago, LacyMay said:

I've been trying to not say anything on this for a while (before this thread) because I truly despise Josh. 

But. 

Child on Child Sexual Abuse (CoCSA) is not the same thing as an adult sexually abusing a child and to the best of my knowledge is not an indicator towards pedophilia. It's also actually not rare and heavily unreported so odds are that some of us actually know a victim or perpetrator of it. 

What Josh did is horrible it was terrible and not dealt with appropriately at all which was a disservice to him and his victims. BUT and this is the part that I hate saying, at some point we need to try and separate 30 year old Josh from 15 year old Josh because we have no evidence that adult Josh has any inappropriate interest in children. None. At all. Adult Josh has not to our knowledge demonstrated that he is capable of sexually abusing a child. 

We know he's been unfaithful to his wife, we know he has awful beliefs, we know he has likely had some shady business dealings. All of these make him a shitty adult. 

Accusing someone of being a pedophile or having child porn in their possession is some pretty heavy stuff to be throwing around unfounded. All we know is a business linked to him is under investigation. We don't even know that the investigation is linked to him. That's a big step away from him being a pedophile. 

I was a victim of CoCSA and while I don't think the guy who did it is a good person. I have no reason to believe he is a pedophile.

Hmm. Interesting information. It appears accurate. But it’s surprising to me:

“In late 2016, Letourneau addressed the TEDMED conference in Palm Springs, California, and presented some startling facts. "What do you think the average age is of a typical child sexual abuser? 24? 34? 44?" she asked. "In fact, the peak age for engaging a prepubescent child in harmful or illegal sexual behavior is 14." And that child convicted of a sex offense, the one we are convinced will grow up to be an adult predator? The likelihood that he or she will ever be convicted of a second offense is just 2 to 3 percent, according to Letourneau's research. She told the audience, "Instead of focusing on prevention, we focus nearly all our effort on punishment.”

https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2018/spring/children-who-are-child-sexual-abusers/

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OMG

EDITED

Never mind. I've found the Block Button. lol

 

Edited by OMG
easiest solution

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