Duggars Raided by Homeland Security

[amendgitan]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:36 PM, nausicaa said:

Since we haven't heard about ATF, I think we can rule out a Michigan milita or illegal arms-Ruby Ridge type situation.

I have quite a few gun nut, milita types in my life, and J.B. has never rung that bell for me. He doesn't seem overly paranoid or violent, no military experience, and he doesn't have any of the home decor or use the slang that typically serves as a shibboleth for that sort of thing. 

He's not even much of a gun nut compared to your average conservative/libertarian dude. He's an average dude at most gun shows/ranges. I know guys who open carry everywhere they go, exclusively wear pseudo-military style clothing, and spend most weekends at gun ranges. 

Anyway, now that I've thoroughly freaked everyone out, back to the weirdass Duggars...

Many here may recall information on the internet that indicated that JB was aligned with a political hopeful, at one point, who advocated the secession of a southern state that would become a Christian theocracy ruled by biblical law. His association with that guy was apparently totally whitewashed from the internet but years ago you could still find it.  

The whole point about the Quiverfull movement is Christian Dominionism. Arming their quivers for Christ.

Make no mistake, Quiverfulls are radicals who believe that they are in the middle of a cosmic holy war that will come to earth in the form of a war against all apostates, heathens/infidels, etc. 

That whole ALERT academy thing is (in my opinion) softened for public consumption as just a cute training camp where Christian boys can become real Christian men and learn how to save lives and respond in cases of emergency. But what I’ve seen indicates to me (my opinion) that it is actually a para military organization of some sort. 

I get the sense whatever this is is probably related to taxes or labor or shady business dealings but the reality of who the Duggar’s are and what they stand for is much scarier than TLC will ever allow to be revealed, in my opinion. 

[Buzzard]

3 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Malfeasance Misadventure Duggar.

Mally Miss for short. 

Mens Rea Duggar

[Palimpsest]

18 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

Many here may recall information on the internet that indicated that JB was aligned with a political hopeful, at one point, who advocated the secession of a southern state that would become a Christian theocracy ruled by biblical law. His association with that guy was apparently totally whitewashed from the internet but years ago you could still find it.  

Jim Bob Duggar has palled around with many corrupt people with political aspirations.  I'm trying to remember exactly which one you are referencing here. 

As far as Homeland Security is concerned though, JB's close association with convicted felon, tax evader, and general arsehole, Kent Hovind has not been whitewashed from the net.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Jim Bob Duggar is a notorious scoff-law.  And so is Josh.  Like father, like son.  They believe they are above regulations, permits, and taxes.  Perhaps stuff finally caught up with them.

I'd like JB to go down over this but I'm afraid the whole thing will fade away with a whimper not a bang.  So to speak.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Walking Cat Bed]

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Anna gets no pass from me. 

Anna in 2014 got a bit more sympathy from me -- she was so certain that she was living by rules that guaranteed a happy life, and everything went directly to shit. And the influential people in her life told her that leaving Josh for cheating was worse than his cheating, because she wasn't forgiving him. And she was very young and sheltered when they married; she'd been raised with the same belief system that told the Duggar girls that Josh's behavior was their fault. 

But it's been five years and she's only digging in deeper and expressing more repugnant opinions in public. She's in a shitty situation and directing her negativity towards vulnerable people. I'm not here for that.

[Coco]

14 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

Many here may recall information on the internet that indicated that JB was aligned with a political hopeful, at one point, who advocated the secession of a southern state that would become a Christian theocracy ruled by biblical law. His association with that guy was apparently totally whitewashed from the internet but years ago you could still find it.  

The whole point about the Quiverfull movement is Christian Dominionism. Arming their quivers for Christ.

Make no mistake, Quiverfulls are radicals who believe that they are in the middle of a cosmic holy war that will come to earth in the form of a war against all apostates, heathens/infidels, etc. 

That whole ALERT academy thing is (in my opinion) softened for public consumption as just a cute training camp where Christian boys can become real Christian men and learn how to save lives and respond in cases of emergency. But what I’ve seen indicates to me (my opinion) that it is actually a para military organization of some sort. 

I get the sense whatever this is is probably related to taxes or labor or shady business dealings but the reality of who the Duggar’s are and what they stand for is much scarier than TLC will ever allow to be revealed, in my opinion. 

+100 I still get flashbacks of the bigots at VF, DP and all the rest with their colonization cosplays. It'd be nice if Frontline did an exposé on what dominionists really believe and how close it is to sharia. Sounds alarmist but religious extremism is getting bad in the south and these people want to be in government making the laws. Way past time to pay attention and see it for what it is rather than a cute amishy lifestyle. 

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, Coco said:

Sounds alarmist but religious extremism is getting bad in the south and these people want to be in government making the laws. Way past time to pay attention and see it for what it is rather than a cute amishy lifestyle. 

Not only in the south.  Although it is more open in the Bible Belt.

And @amendgitan is also correct that ALERT is a paramilitary organisation.   Granted Cadets and probably Basic is more like Fundie boy scouts and those kids can't march or drill to save their lives, but the more advanced courses are for the true believers.  Guns, flying, and "Leadership Training."  The deluded young men then go home and run unopposed for elected constable positions and suchlike in their Podunk little towns, but they are aiming for higher office.  And they may get it.  Eventually.

It is not a coincidence that Zach Bates ran successfully for County Commissioner and was narrowly defeated when he ran for Mayor.  It is not a coincidence that Nathan Bates and JD Duggar are appointed constables (and misuse their town police badges in the Bahamas,) And it is no coincidence that young Jed is running for State Rep.  There are probably many more ALERT graduates that we have never heard of doing the same thing.

And that uneducated and arrogant young puppy, Jedidiah Duggar, might actually win the seat.  After 2016 nothing will surprise me.  Scary stuff.

 

[Xan]

Case in point:  Daniel Webster, Republican representative of Florida.  He has six kids who were homeschooled using the Gothard materials.  Make no mistake - the Dominionists are getting people into government positions.  This has worried me for quite some time.

[JenniferJuniper]

I have sympathy for Anna.

This is not to say that I lie awake nights fretting about what she's going through or that I don't find her to be an active contributor to her situation.  But I cannot equate her to Josh.

Yes, Josh had fucked up parents and grew up in cult.  But he has something Anna doesn't have.  A dick.  And having a dick in a patriarchal culture gives one all sorts of advantages that a woman will never be afforded.  For starters, he can work!  Which means he can work his way out of the cult and support himself at the same time.  From the moment the two ton bow is put on her head, a woman is trained to believe that she was put on this earth solely to please a man and have as many of his kids as he wants her to have.  To be a doormat, in other words.

And Anna doesn't just have an asshole husband to escape.  She has his huge family around all the time - a huge family with a fucking TV show!  It can be hard to leave an abusive relationship under normal circumstances; Anna's situation is the opposite of normal.   I'd probably dislike her if I knew her.  But I can't help but have pity for her.

[amendgitan]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:31 PM, Hashtag Blessed said:

You know, I initially resisted this idea but the longer I sit with it the more I think about how timely his Twitter outburst against Jim Bob was. What an interesting coincidence ? 

Against Jimbob? What did he say and how do we know? 

[Beermeet]

I looked on the Wholesale Motorcars NWA FB page and saw this comment.  Perhaps this is what started an investigation?  Sorry if it's been posted. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss one post here so......

 

[Coco]

35 minutes ago, Xan said:

Case in point:  Daniel Webster, Republican representative of Florida.  He has six kids who were homeschooled using the Gothard materials.  Make no mistake - the Dominionists are getting people into government positions.  This has worried me for quite some time.

Yes, my family knew an alert family whose son has been a mayor in TX for a long time. But idk if that particular family still believe in gothardism. Their lifestyle seemed pretty mainstream and never went full fundie. Still, so many of that group will vote with their faith before reason or science every time. Not to mention TX sets the standard for public school curriculum in many ways. 

[EmCatlyn]

On 11/19/2019 at 8:09 PM, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Unfortunately, for Anna, it was the way she was raised. Her brother and two of her sisters attempted to encourage her to leave Josh when the Ashley Madison scandal broke in 2015. Her parents encouraged her to stay, pray, and be a dutiful wife. Plus she doesn't seem to have that much of an education outside of IBLP's education. I know she has a GED, nothing wrong with getting a GED. But, she is uneducated and, possibly, didn't understand and know if the Duggars were involved in anything illegal.

Whether or not she knew something illegal was going on is not the point.  She is dumber than a rock if she trusts Josh.  Yes, I feel for her situation, and I know she was raised that way, etc. But she also had role models (siblings) of other options, and she certainly is old enough now to have picked up some common sense along the way.

[Giraffe]

10 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Whether or not she knew something illegal was going on is not the point.  She is dumber than a rock if she trusts Josh.  Yes, I feel for her situation, and I know she was raised that way, etc. But she also had role models (siblings) of other options, and she certainly is old enough now to have picked up some common sense along the way.

This is why I have less sympathy for her than I would otherwise. Yes, she’s in a horrible situation, but she is aware there are other options. After watching Jon Gosslin’s interview, I wonder how much of her staying at this point is outside pressure from TLC (or whatever network they’re now on) and the Duggar family and how much is her staying out of a staunch internal belief that it’s the right thing. But I have no respect for her at this point, regardless of why she’s staying. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Giraffe
ETA: I’m quite harsh about it because there are kids involved. Maybe she’ll write a tell-all 20 years from now and I’ll feel terrible for being so harsh.

[EmCatlyn]

On 11/19/2019 at 10:17 PM, RainbowSky said:

We don't know what her brother offering to help actually entailed though.

Could have been anything from "Yay, you left that dickhead. Here are some food pantries in your area!" Up to taking them in. Most people can't just take in 5 extra people though. 

My memory is that he offered to take them in.  Didn’t he say he was ready to drive and get her and the kids and bring them to his house?  Probably didn’t intend to support Anna and the kids indefinitely, but he would probably have helped her find a job and/or get some kind of child support from JB (since Josh was in “rehab”) and/or AFDC ( or whatever aid to poor families is called now).

Maybe Anna figured (rightly) that she would be “taken care of” and have more material things if she stayed with the Duggar show (literally) but she had a choice.

[NancyDrewFan1989]

20 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Whether or not she knew something illegal was going on is not the point.  She is dumber than a rock if she trusts Josh.  Yes, I feel for her situation, and I know she was raised that way, etc. But she also had role models (siblings) of other options, and she certainly is old enough now to have picked up some common sense along the way.

The role model siblings were cut out of her life for sometime because they chose to live outside the IBLP cult. The two sisters, Rebekah and Susanna, and the brother Daniel have spoken out against IBLP. Daniel went on a Facebook rant about contacting Anna and letting her know he was willing to let her and the kids stay with him until she got on her feet. Furthermore, in the rant Daniel went on to allude blame to his parents for making her stay by mentioning they would think it would embarrass them. Rebekah, Daniel, and Susanna are said to have been estranged from the family for sometime before Priscilla's wedding. It does look like the Kellers have maintained contact with them. 

For what it is worth, I don't think Anna really "trusts Josh" as much as she "trusts her parents." Her parents are the ones who she, I believe, turned to when the Ashley Madison scandal broke. They were also the ones who picked Josh for her. They were the ones who were completely fine with being told their daughter marrying a man who had sexually assaulted his siblings (although the Duggars are said to not be upfront with them). Her parents, basically, ran her life until she married Josh. Now the Duggars are running her life by having her live on their compound because Josh is her headship. I don't think she has ever had the chance to have an independent mind like the three role model siblings that she has needed the past four years. 

[SilverBeach]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

But I can't help but have pity for her.

Anna is what, 30 now? Hell to the no, no pity for her. My pity is reserved for those kids who will one day know the reality of who their father is. 

[neuroticcat]

I wonder too if Anna didn’t think that everything could be overcome with forgiveness and prayer. 

I mean, in her perspective:

1. She knew about Josh’s behavior as a teen. Maybe they weren’t forthright. Maybe she had infatuation-glasses. But she knew. And married him anyway. So I don’t think that becoming public would change a whole lot for her. Maybe make her stand by her man all the more.

2. Ashley Madison - it was never clear to me whether Josh physically cheated or was solely addicted to porn. I mean wasn’t the thing with AM that most of the people on there were males? Also, his initial confession (IIRC) listed cheating on her with porn. This totally makes sense in fundie/Christian conservative circles. Porn IS being unfaithful. But even if he had physically cheated, IBLP or any sort of fundie teaching does not have a context for sexual addiction. I also lean toward this interpretation because sexual unfaithfulness is the only thing biblical literalists would accept as a reason for divorce. I do think that if he had actual affairs she might have left him.

All that to say, outside of fundieland it seems crazy to stay with him. Inside, though, she could think of everything as overcomable. Not to mention that to leave would bring all her identity- wife, mom of many, etc. crashing down. If that is truly what you thought you wanted, it would be hard to leave that. Especially raised in a cult where all you know is deny-yourself. She might not even know her true desires and dreams. How terrifying for her to live without that. 

I’m not giving her a pass, but I do see how she could stay and actually be happy with it. A “redemption” story still gives her all those dreams.

[EmCatlyn]

On 11/20/2019 at 3:00 PM, libgirl2 said:

Josh, JB and Michelle should not be on the show. Why not just call it 19 Kids and Counting again? 

Barring a miracle of Abraham and Sarah proportions ( which I am sure TLC would be happy to televise) there is no more “counting” of kids.

The show should, perhaps, be renamed “[Number] Grandkids and Counting” though, if it’s the JB and M show again. ?

[Xan]

First of all, I don't think the Kellers were told the whole story about Josh.  Jim Bob would never risk it.  He needed some fundie girl to take Josh off his hands and "keep him busy".  He might have alluded to the fact that he wanted to keep Josh from committing "impurities" or some other fundie-speak for randiness.   I don't think he was honest at all.  We can all see that Mr. Keller doesn't seem to be a good judge of character anyway.

And second, I understand how sheltered and brainwashed Anna was but the ballgame changes when you have kids.  Unless she's brain dead, she has to understand how flawed Josh is.  She needs to be thinking about her children.  If Josh is in some new trouble, she needs to start figuring out an escape route.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Xan

[SuperNova]

Anna is both a victim and a parent who is actively perpetuating abuse. She absolutely deserves to be held accountable for her part in what is happening because she's an adult who can make choices for herself and her children cannot. Whether she's strong enough or not is secondary to the fact that her children suffer emotionally for her lack of judgement.

I wouldn't say that I have sympathy or pity for her but I do understand how difficult her position is. Her indoctrination began before she could even speak and the sad reality is that she will probably never leave Josh or her cult. But even damaged adults have to be held accountable for their actions. As long as Anna continues to have babies and raise them in a harmful environment, she's just as culpable as those who've done it to her. 

[Dandruff]

Misogyny Reigns Duggar

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

I wonder too if Anna didn’t think that everything could be overcome with forgiveness and prayer. 

I mean, in her perspective:

1. She knew about Josh’s behavior as a teen. Maybe they weren’t forthright. Maybe she had infatuation-glasses. But she knew. And married him anyway. So I don’t think that becoming public would change a whole lot for her. Maybe make her stand by her man all the more.

2. Ashley Madison - it was never clear to me whether Josh physically cheated or was solely addicted to porn. I mean wasn’t the thing with AM that most of the people on there were males? Also, his initial confession (IIRC) listed cheating on her with porn. This totally makes sense in fundie/Christian conservative circles. Porn IS being unfaithful. But even if he had physically cheated, IBLP or any sort of fundie teaching does not have a context for sexual addiction. I also lean toward this interpretation because sexual unfaithfulness is the only thing biblical literalists would accept as a reason for divorce. I do think that if he had actual affairs she might have left him.

All that to say, outside of fundieland it seems crazy to stay with him. Inside, though, she could think of everything as overcomable. Not to mention that to leave would bring all her identity- wife, mom of many, etc. crashing down. If that is truly what you thought you wanted, it would be hard to leave that. Especially raised in a cult where all you know is deny-yourself. She might not even know her true desires and dreams. How terrifying for her to live without that. 

I’m not giving her a pass, but I do see how she could stay and actually be happy with it. A “redemption” story still gives her all those dreams.

I agree with you but also agree with the 'She's a grown woman who can make a choice screw her'.  I think it's both.  She's feeling both ways. Why wouldn't she be.  She was so distraught when we saw her after.  Heartbroken and it was hard to watch.  She stayed though.  I literally cannot imagine being her on any level except what it's like to be pregnant.  I don't really understand this life of fundies and I'm so thankful.

[MamaJunebug]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

 

(Don’t know what I did to @EmCatlyn‘s original quote, but it had to do with Anna possibly enjoying her upgrade in material things since joining the Duggars.

 

My ex- grew up in a house a lot like the senior Kellers’ and he once remembered how swank a mid-century development of 2B, 1b homes with single carports had seemed, when his family were invited to one. 

Anna also might have a fraught history with one or more of the three Keller siblings who finally got wise and got out, causing her to  reject the offer of help.  I hope not! But after  all, JB did say that Jerksh’s behavior was not uncommon in their set.  

Edited November 22, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[Anna Bolinas]

7 hours ago, BernRul said:

If Anna gets a pass because she was raised in this cult and is stunted and innocent, why doesn't Josh? After all he was stunted too. He's also being forced to live a life he doesn't want (he didn't want 6 kids only 2 ish, and didn't want to be a car salesman over a lawyer). He's also been sheltered and stunted. So why does Anna get a pass but not Josh? 

I don't give Anna a full pass, but as far as we know, she isn't a child molester. That is a low bar to clear, obviously, but for me, that's why I would choose to give Anna a "pass" over Josh any day of the week, even though I think Anna bears some responsibility for bringing more children into this horrible family.

But as for Josh living the life he didn't want...if none of this stuff had come out, I think he would be happy as a clam. He would have the public persona of the good Christian family man, which would allow him to be a smug little smuggar; he would have a cushy job that he didn't need to work for; and he would still be able to have himself the private fun of cheating on his wife and going to strip clubs.

[Coco]

@neuroticcat these articles claim actual affairs. https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1107909/josh-duggar-new-court-papers-reveal-he-did-have-sex-with-prostitute/

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3221992/Second-mistress-Josh-Duggar-claims-suffered-pregnancy-scare-unprotected-sex-disgraced-star-goes-missing-Christian-rehab-clinic.html