Where in the World is Doug Phillips (Who is a Tool)? Part 11

[Marian the Librarian]

Meanwhile, over in Be-All Land, we have the following "reintroduction" on Instagram! [Bolding mine]

Quote

Waiting at the post office seems like a good time to renew introductions, right? It’s a new year and decade and all... and some of you are new friends...My name, Beall, is a Scottish surname. But I’m not Scottish. I thought for a while I was Dutch. But I’m English and German. Long story. More importantly, I’m a native Texan. Over the last 30 some odd years, I’ve been an event planner, personal organizer, product buyer and tester, editor, writer, teacher, counselor, and dementia and elderly caregiver. And I’ve travelled. Extensively. It’s been fun. The prize in my life portfolio is my family. I’ve invested the most. I’ve sacrificed the most. I’ve gotten the best return. One husband. Eight children. One daughter in law. One grandboy. I am rich. I don’t sell anything here. I enjoy those of you who do. That’s just not for me. I want to use my squares as a forum for ideas and stories which could be beneficial to others. My faith in Christ is my compass, my anchor, and my tether. I believe there is something I can learn from every person I encounter. I may not want to, but it is available to me. I believe in honor over dehumanization. I believe life is a feast of experience and sorrow is both a wise teacher and a friend. I read books. I listen to books. I love books. More than news. More than twitter. More than Facebook. Books quiet the noise, teach my soul, challenge my mind. I hope to live to at least 100. I’m half way there.

Does anyone else notice any...uhhhh...GAPS...in her resume??

https://www.instagram.com/countingupfrom50/

[bea]

I did wonder about the GAPING holes in her life story.
She did mention a husband. Though anyone perusing her Instagram could be forgiven for thinking she’s single.

[The Mother Dust]

"Grandboy"   Innocent wordplay from a non-fundie....her....not so much.  Telling on yourself Be All.
ETA i just realized how icky that gif is....looks like the vomit is going back in it's mouth, lol   Maybe apropos for fundies though....repetitive regurgitation of waste.

Edited January 5, 2020 by The Mother Dust

[Howl]

I'm giving Beall a partial pass here, because she READS and not just Christian literature.  She reads secular women authors who write about a woman's interface with themselves and the world at large. 

Who knows when one of those secular women authors will plant a seed?  Frankly, I think they already have because Beall does not publicly spout the fundy Christian party lines.  She has a daughter in college and others of her daughters lead at least somewhat independent lives.  She travels independently.  She obviously didn't participate in marrying her daughters off young in some insane courtship scheme.  We have to go back to the VF heyday and the absolutely idiotic crap that they were spouting -- that is all in the rear view mirror.  When in Durango, they went to a real church that had age-specific groups!  NOT FAMILY INTEGRATED.  

She went from being a pampered elite in the fundy hierarchy whose husband betrayed her in the most public of ways and imploded their financial life, to working low level care-giving jobs and she hasn't publicly complained about it.  Frankly, how much of this is impression management, how much is just facing up to life's challenges and how much is sucking it up marching on with head held high as a role model for her kids is up for discussion.  Maybe all three?  

But back to my original point.  She reads.  She reads secular authors which means she's thinking about her life and how to navigate challenges in ways that are not framed by a specifically fundamentalist Christian agenda.  I'm not saying she's losing her faith.  I'm saying she has at least changed her thinking since the VF days. 

Compare her to, for example, the crazy that is Ms. Spanky or any of the fundy bloggers/instagramers that we follow on here. 

 

 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

She went from being a pampered elite in the fundy hierarchy whose husband betrayed her in the most public of ways and imploded their financial life, to working low level care-giving jobs and she hasn't publicly complained about it.  Frankly, how much of this is impression management, how much is just facing up to life's challenges and how much is sucking it up marching on with head held high as a role model for her kids is up for discussion.  Maybe all three?  

 

3 hours ago, Howl said:

She has a daughter in college and others of her daughters lead at least somewhat independent lives.  She travels independently.  She obviously didn't participate in marrying her daughters off young in some insane courtship scheme. 

I agree that she seems to have done a better job of trying to reduce the damaging effects of the VF life on her kids than some, rather than continuing the full-on crazy. She does show signs of waking up a bit, and she seems to be taking financial responsibility and is willing to work.

The thing that may be sticking in some craws is that she never acknowledges all of the damage that was done, or that her husband is one of the biggest pieces of shit on the planet. I think reactions to that range from being pissed at her to just thinking it's weird or sad.

For me, it's not so much a matter of admiring, pitying or condemning her - it's just interesting to see the gaps in what she says, and wondering if that will ever change. It's like watching something teeter, wondering if and when it will fall.

If she'd gone silent and stayed off of social media, I'd say "oh, well - who knows what she's thinking, and it's none of my business." But she posts - and not just "here are pictures of where we went and what we ate" posts. She posts about her thoughts and feelings and philosophy and the growth she feels she's achieving.

I keep wondering if and when that other shoe (the "we were wrong" and/or the "Doug, get out of my life for real, legally, via divorce" shoe) is going to drop. And it's hard not to wonder what she's actually thinking about all of that - could she be in that much denial?

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by thoughtful
adding something

[Howl]

3 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I keep wondering if and when that other shoe (the "we were wrong" and/or the "Doug, get out of my life for real, legally, via divorce" shoe) is going to drop. And it's hard not to wonder what she's actually thinking about all of that - could she be in that much denial?

I hear ya.  My main irritant with all the Vision Forum royalty et al. is the lack of a tell-all, of sorts.  I've mentioned on other threads, we could learn so much if these people would just reflect and share their insights on how they've changed and if their faith is a bedrock and or crumbling sand. 

[FilleMondaine]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I hear ya.  My main irritant with all the Vision Forum royalty et al. is the lack of a tell-all, of sorts.  I've mentioned on other threads, we could learn so much if these people would just reflect and share their insights on how they've changed and if their faith is a bedrock and or crumbling sand. 

I wonder if she has to play nice for the divorce to go through--I mean, that she is getting good advice from her divorce lawyer so that her words cannot be used against her.

In all--like you, @Howl, I am pretty agnostic about the wives of terrible men (looking at you, Melania). I tend to remain agnostic until about 5 years post separation/death, etc. Basically, long enough to get a good therapist and undo some of the lingering effects of the abuse. Domestic abuse does ugly things to its victims. It can turn smart people into dumb people, and otherwise nice people into mean people. There is no doubt that Doug abused her (forcing her to fake-smile events while he preens around his mistress sex abuse victim is abuse. Who knows what else he did non-publicly)

I am also heartened that she is reading healthy books, and is working. She is doing a very difficult and low-paid job caring for dementia patients, and it almost feels like repentance.

[frumperlicious]

I wonder if the reason there has been no real self reflection on the VF implosion is that she just isn’t ready yet to face it. She is doing what she must, working, making a new life, but still just getting thru all the trauma rather than facing it. I mean, it’s terrifying finding yourself at 45? 46? with many children, no career, and a cheating husband who has lost all financial support. 
 

I have a soft spot for Beall. (Who will always and forever be “be all” when I see her name ?). I can imagine what living with such a narcissist is like, and I’d be willing to bet his nanny abuse was NOT the first time he cheated or abused. She has probably been gaslighted her entire marriage. While she said and did reprehensible things during the VF days, I can’t help but think she probably was so worn down and conditioned by Doug to act, say and behave a certain way I can’t blame her. The man has a proven capacity for manipulation and abuse, and the biggest ego I’ve ever seen...over decades she lived with him. 
 

I would love for her to serve him dramatically with divorce papers and then dye her hair green and write a tell all, but for the sake of the kids reading good literature and getting a job are perhaps just as dramatic. 

[danvillebelle]

I respect those of you who have different opinions about Be-all and give her a little benefit of the doubt.  I just don't share said opinions. 

Until she shows an inkling of remorse for the damage she did (not only to thousands of VF followers but her OWN CHILDREN), I got nothing for this lady.  Nothing.  In fact, my gut tells me she is just as much of a narcissist as DPIART and they just fed off each other and gloried in their "dominion".  I think her carefully curated "progress" on her blog is her trying to get back into people's good graces, a la Spanky.  I don't buy it.  She has a degree from William and Mary, she's not some poor under-educated bumpkin like Anna Duggar (not excusing her either, for the record).  Be-all is a smart cookie.

To me, if she knew about how much of an abuser/narcissist DPIART was all along since earlier in her marriage, then that makes it worse.   That means she purposefully had EIGHT KIDS with an abusive tool.     

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by danvillebelle
riffles

[frumperlicious]

I mean, that’s the thing about narcissists and abusers though. Smart women fall for them all. The. Time. They aren’t immune, and it’s dangerous to think so. The 8 kids were the trap to keep her, and they always want to keep their toys. 
 

look, I may certainly be projecting, I get that. I’m trying to get out from some heavy stuff that isn't close to Doug level stuff. But the fact remains he is a known abuser and manipulator, and it’s very unlikely she wasn’t affected. Very. The current Beall is not at all the type to willfully abuse and manipulate, but the current Doug sure is. I can’t help but not see her as another vengeful narcissist abuser who joined forces. Because she really does not seem to be that away from him. And we have no idea (but I do have an inkling) what it’s like to live with..that. Him. And what it does to you.

Im ok being a Beall apologist, until proven otherwise. 

[Howl]

Whatever her faults, my sense is that this is a woman who truly, deeply loves her children in an unconditional way.   

At the same time, I have hopes that the last two kids at home are receiving a more secular education, even if it is a marginally more secular education and if she is pushing or emphasizing college for them now that Doug is not actively patriarch-ing.  I'd also hope, considering Beall's situation, that she emphasize to her daughters how important it is be able to be self sufficient. 

 Speculation: the kid who just got his Masters will likely go on to get a doctorate and I hope he'll inspire the other kids to consider a college track. 

I've lost track of a couple of the kids.  There's the oldest son who's a bit of a nomad and whose courtship(!) with EO royalty fell through, the son with a Masters, the daughter in college, the sewing daughter, two kids still at home.  That's two kids in the wind out of eight total. 

Also curious what Beall is using for home school materials these days and if they are part of a home school co-op. Might be that circumstances require that she re-use old home schooling materials from the other kids. 

[Flyinthesoup]

30 minutes ago, Howl said:

I've lost track of a couple of the kids.  There's the oldest son who's a bit of a nomad and whose courtship(!) with EO royalty fell through, the son with a Masters, the daughter in college, the sewing daughter, two kids still at home.  That's two kids in the wind out of eight total. 

I'm no expert on the children, but I had to go check before posting.   You have Justice and JT reversed in birth order. I can't tell you who the two are, that are missing, but if I really wanted to (I don't) I could figure it out. I only had to fact check this one as I thought I finally knew who was older, but then doubted myself when I saw you posting.  

[FilleMondaine]

7 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

I respect those of you who have different opinions about Be-all and give her a little benefit of the doubt.  I just don't share said opinions. 

Until she shows an inkling of remorse for the damage she did (not only to thousands of VF followers but her OWN CHILDREN), I got nothing for this lady.  Nothing.  In fact, my gut tells me she is just as much of a narcissist as DPIART and they just fed off each other and gloried in their "dominion".  I think her carefully curated "progress" on her blog is her trying to get back into people's good graces, a la Spanky.  I don't buy it.  She has a degree from William and Mary, she's not some poor under-educated bumpkin like Anna Duggar (not excusing her either, for the record).  Be-all is a smart cookie.

To me, if she knew about how much of an abuser/narcissist DPIART was all along since earlier in her marriage, then that makes it worse.   That means she purposefully had EIGHT KIDS with an abusive tool.     

 

My problem with this argument is that it elides the dynamics of domestic abuse. "She knew what she was getting into" is eerily similar to "why did she wear a skirt/walk home at night/etc." The root of the problem is patriarchy, not necessarily Beall's personality or another woman's decision to wear certain clothing. Domestic abuse (and we can agree that Doug is an abuser) makes nastiness grow out of each family member. She could very well be a bad person, but even bad people don't deserve domestic abuse. (And I am in no way accusing you of supporting abuse, only saying that abuse and patriarchy really are that insidious that we doubt all women except the most perfect)

That's why I use the word "agnostic" on purpose. I will wait a few years for her to untangle psychically, and to do the hard work of therapy, remorse, etc. If she does that, then great! And if she doesn't then I don't feel bad judging her.

My hope is that she is being silent because her lawyer is telling her to maintain a positive public image until divorce proceedings are through.

[bea]

Do we know for sure there’s a divorce?

[danvillebelle]

15 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

She knew what she was getting into" is eerily similar to "why did she wear a skirt/walk home at night/etc."

Except I didn't say that.  I said earlier in the marriage, not before it.  She probably didn't know his true character when they married.  By the time the 3rd and 4th kid came on the scene...yeah, I think she had an inkling.  By then the VF train was chugging along and I think she enjoyed the ride.  Of course I don't have proof of this; as I said, it's a gut feeling.  As for her ever giving a public apology and/or admission of how damaging VF and it's influence and doctrine were...well, I'm not holding my breath.  

I am well aware that DPIART is an abuser...one who obviously has NPD to boot.  I still pray that he never extended his predatory behavior to his daughters.

 

17 hours ago, Howl said:

I've lost track of a couple of the kids.  There's the oldest son who's a bit of a nomad and whose courtship(!) with EO royalty fell through, the son with a Masters, the daughter in college, the sewing daughter, two kids still at home.  That's two kids in the wind out of eight total. 

Liberty, the oldest daughter - don't know what she's doing outside of the odd Operation Meatball stuff.

Three kids still at home - Honor, Providence, and Virginia.

[danvillebelle]

18 hours ago, frumperlicious said:

look, I may certainly be projecting, I get that.

I probably am too, and I totally cop to it.

Still don't trust Be-all as far as I could throw her.

[FilleMondaine]

14 hours ago, bea said:

Do we know for sure there’s a divorce?

No--not at all. I was just brainstorming what could be behind the the "gaps" that were mentioned.

[VVV]

On 1/7/2020 at 10:51 AM, Howl said:

Also curious what Beall is using for home school materials these days and if they are part of a home school co-op. Might be that circumstances require that she re-use old home schooling materials from the other kids. 

This is the part that drives me crazy. She lives in the attendance area of one of the most desirable middle/high schools in one of the most desirable school districts in San Antonio.

I mean, my kids graduated from what is considered one of the least desirable high schools in that same district (it's a very good school but its demographics are off-putting to many who are richer and whiter) with excellent educations. There is no excuse for her youngest kids not to be getting a good education.

[Hane]

@VVV, true. Beall is college-educated, and far more capable than the vast majority of our fundies to provide decent  home schooling, but a good public school education is nothing to sneeze at.

[Howl]

 She's been working low-paid jobs as a care giver for the elderly (fj hive: is she still doing that?).  Perhaps she's holding off on starting a business or re-training until all the kids are out of the house/apartment.   Also, how does that work?  If she's homeschooling, how does that mesh with her work hours?  

Also, she's had to come to terms with the fact that the saints don't rush in to help out a woman whose husband has left fundamentalism behind.  She's the poster child for why women need to know how to be financially self sufficient.  

[Jasmar]

They also don’t hurt themselves trying to help women who have left their abusive “Christian” husbands. Ask me how I know. ?

[Insertwittiernamehere]

I haven't really been following what seems to be the disintegration of their marriage so forgive me if this is a stupid question, in her insta post when she states that she is rich, does she mean financially rich and so doesn't really need the tool around and so is just ignoring the fact he seems to have left her, or is she implying that the work that she has put into presenting her family as a united front means that she is pretending she is rich in love and is in total denial that he seems to have left her??

[hoipolloi]

Be-All may be a victim of DPIART's abuse.  

Nonetheless, in her blog post of a couple of years ago, she blamed Lourdes for everything in the Fall of the Tool, telling people to "Save your sympathy for real victims."

?‍♂️?‍♀️?‍♂️

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by hoipolloi
Better wording

[Laura2730]

Random question- has anyone got photos of Noelle Wheeler Goforth's wedding? + is this Noelle Wheeler Goforth in the Vision Forum catalog?

Spoiler

 

[Howl]

Here's a November 2019  profile: ARTIST OF THE MONTH: NOELLE GOFORTH

She and her husband still live in Boerne, TX. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Howl