Where in the World is Doug Phillips (Who is a Tool)? Part 11

[Coconut Flan 30,851]

Continued from here:

Why not let the last two kids at home go to public school?

[Marian the Librarian 6,934]

Wow - Part 11 and still going strong, six years after Tool O'Ween.

Based on the available social media evidence (or lack thereof) so well laid out by fellow FJ-ers, it looks like the Phillips family has been well and truly decimated - relationally,  financially, educationally, - by its fallen patriarch's choices. I feel for those kids.

[hoipolloi 18,189]

3 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Based on the available social media evidence (or lack thereof) so well laid out by fellow FJ-ers, it looks like the Phillips family has been well and truly decimated - relationally,  financially, educationally, - by its fallen patriarch's choices. I feel for those kids.

So do I though, IMO, Beall is also partly responsible.

 

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Why not let the last two kids at home go to public school?

Indeed, why not?

[Cleopatra7 20,486]

If Beall is selling plasma and doing who knows how many other side hustles, where would she have time to homeschool anyway? I guess there’s always sticking the kids in front of a workbook or computer screen, but who would judge her for not homeschooling at this point? 

[MamaJunebug 13,588]

26 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

If Beall is selling plasma and doing who knows how many other side hustles, where would she have time to homeschool anyway? I guess there’s always sticking the kids in front of a workbook or computer screen, but who would judge her for not homeschooling at this point? 

I’d certainly judge her if she was leaving the last ones to try to teach themselves, or something!  What’s the baby girl’s name, the one Dougie favored Before The Fall because she was so kewwwwt?  She needs book-learning!  

Edited November 9 by MamaJunebug

[Cleopatra7 20,486]

2 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I’d certainly judge her if she was leaving the last ones to try to teach themselves, or something!  What’s the baby hurl’s Bane, the one Dougie favored Before The Fall because she was so kewwwwt?  She needs book-learning!  

I meant that it’s doubtful that she has much contact from anyone from her VF days who might still be homeschool only and judging her for that. If Beall’s still doing bare bones homeschooling, she’s in the right state to do it. I wonder how the older Phillips’ sons reconcile their rolling stone of a father, when DPIART claimed that he spent so much time “discipling” then in the VF years. Although that too may have been a lie (it wouldn’t surprise me if it was).

[Howl 48,975]

For all the crazy of Beall's  unending and seemingly irrational devotion to Doug, all the crap she spewed, all the support for the damaging VF beliefs, when it came down to it, she stepped up and got jobs to support herself and her children and, at least publicly, did not complain about it.  And she's still working. I do give her credit for that.  

Do they still believe in SAHD to some extent, or are some of the adults still staying with Beall for economic survival or familial support?

Is the daughter who went off to Ligonier still in college?  It would be a shame if she's not. 

 

 

[Columbia 900]

Is Beall even stable enough to send Virginia and Providence to public school? Where is she living? Is she still going back and forth between Colorado and Texas?

Edited November 10 by Columbia

[AnnaSofia 3,631]

I think they've been in San Antonio since July or August of 2018. When someone on IG asked Beall (who expressed great pleasure at being back in Texas) if the move was for good this time, I believe she said they would still be going back and forth, but I haven't seen much evidence for it.

The only thing I have wondered about is the "changed locations" part of Beall's comment for an Instagram post she made a few weeks ago. At the time I assumed it it was just a brief road trip (Faith mention on her IG stories how unusual it was that there was no one else at the apartment for a couple of days). But I suppose it could have been another move.

 

Faith is definitely in San Antonio though (posting photos on the back stairs of the apartment) and it looks like Liberty is there, too. A least as of Halloween.

[FundieGhostWriter 334]

Oh good, the turning of a thread. As with the death of a High Priest, that means I can leave the naughty corner.

19 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I’d certainly judge her if she was leaving the last ones to try to teach themselves

That is sometimes how it ends (a bit like the rest of us, who BubbleWrap child one, and by child three of four let them play in traffic). The top-homeschool-guru family in one state (with a brood even bigger than Beall's), when they had just one child of high school age left, had no substantial education going on for years. Final daughter was told she would be a SAHD until her mother decided otherwise - age 35 at a minimum (I kid you not). Father had a regular job, mother was too busy gadding about promoting the lifestyle. (I won't say what the daughter does now, as that is very identifying, but she's as far from Gilead as they come - and she left the ranch as soon as the calendar struck 18.)

19 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I wonder how the older Phillips’ sons reconcile their rolling stone of a father, when DPIART claimed that he spent so much time “discipling” then in the VF years. Although that too may have been a lie (it wouldn’t surprise me if it was).

I don't think it was a lie, as Doug could bloviate underwater with a mouth full of concrete. I imagine that, despite the shame of the scandal, it was a relief to be freed from endless 'discipling'. I think Joshua and Justice had to sit through Doug's rehearsals - he tried out his BS scripts on them.

@dripcurl, wow - you do know how to (birthday) party! I hope you and the one you love live up your youth together with zeal - I don't know how much you drank of the poisoned chalices of the likes of Mary Pride, but it can take a while for the dead hand of fundiedom to loosen it's grip on the spirit. Give each other space - but, enjoy each other to the full. And that's enough uncalled for advice from me.

Your testimony shows what a 'clever' piece of work RotD was. It's probably an underdiscussed fact that it's frequently women who lead the way into patriarchy (@Briefly - you are not alone!) - possibly underdiscussed because it could sound like victim blaming. I wonder how many girls your age were sucked in, and did what you did? Of course, there's no shame in having been conned - in fact, of all the terrible things you could have done at 16, I'd say falling for VF is a sign of good character. Did the cosplay and ideology appeal, or was it mostly the idea of being a good SAHD fixing things with your dad?

I'm glad homeschool brought you a hubby - I hope it helped set you up for the rest of life too. I love hs as an option - in the right hands, and for the right kid, it can literally be a lifesaver. Many families thrive and get great results. But I'm cautious in recommending it. I prefer to point out the pitfalls, and to warn off the doubtful and (apparently) poorly equipped. Families struggling with their local schools, and choosing hs as a least-bad-option, I encourage to give it their best, but to keep in sight moving into school eventually. Personally, I'd need a really good reason to have a kid in hs past 14 or 15. But mileage varies. I just hate zealotry that promotes homeschool as a magic bullet.

@Howl, yes, only Joshua is married. It does make me wonder how much they shared an alternative script with their kids, to the tripe they were selling the sheeple. Or was the marriage just so horrible it did the job? Or is Beall still clinging to the fiction that Doug needs to arrange the girls' marriages, and using that as an excuse to spare them fundie husbands (understandable, given how her own marriage with the most eligible pigmy in the tribe turned out).

[dripcurl 3,460]

@FundieGhostWriter Was raised strictly straightedge, but I am not much for substances now anyway. Thank you though! I am a major self care fiend, so I am overdoing it on the pampering this week. Either way, I happy to be living with the freedom I have, I can’t believe I purposely once tried to subject myself to SAHDhood.

[FundieGhostWriter 334]

@dripcurl, we may have misunderstood each other a little across the generation gap. I wasn't thinking of substances - just admiring your energy when you mentioned your birthday celebrations lasting a week. My words on making the most of your youth, were because of my fears for young couples emerging from the world that you and your husband are leaving behind. I've too often seen the ghosts of fundiedom make young couples struggle with intimacy. Enjoy your pampering!

If anyone’s interested in the question - Has Anything Taken the Place of VF? - I have just posted in @GenerationCedarchip's thread from last year. Maybe this thread would be a more active place to discuss it anyway (until we actually have some news of Doug!).

Edited November 10 by FundieGhostWriter
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[DomWackTroll 9,378]

16 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

Faith is definitely in San Antonio though (posting photos on the back stairs of the apartment) and it looks like Liberty is there, too. A least as of Halloween.

So I guess it's cool for Faith and Liberty to dress in drag now? And to celebrate Halloween? No explanation whatsoever of the drastic changes in "values" and "lifestyle"?

As far as finances, it would not surprise me if Doug's mother is helping out (but I have absolutely no proof). And if she is, that could be a strong incentive for both Doug and Beall to put off a divorce. 

[CyborgKin 7,880]

Sorry to continue a side discussion that started in the previous thread, but such is life.

 

@FundieGhostWriter I can't quote properly from closed threads so instead here's this:

Quote

I dare not ask about Don B's 'wit'. I'll cross my fingers and hope you mean 'dad jokes' (in his case maybe great-grandad jokes).

Gary's energy doesn't bother me; but steamrolling people does. And I think the dictionary entry on confirmation bias could feature his picture. He's hoping, in effect, to replace Ken Ham - but whereas KH, at least, was a high school science teacher, Gary is from marketing. It shows.

'Super camps' - these are the big events held on the east coast of Australia? What do you think of them? Are the participants heavily fundie, or nearer to 'mainstream' evang/pente? Given that your folks sound strongly CMI, how do they feel about Ken Ham and AiG? Would they visit the Creation Museum if they were in the States? (Heck - I'd almost do that myself if I was in town and they had a half-price day. Dinosaur vs gladiator displays?! Some things have to be seen to be believed - or not believed as the case may be. A Noah's Ark replica claiming insurance for rain damage - that too is worth a photo!)

I'll bite my tongue (oh, is that blood) and not ask about Tas Walker talking to himself. I'll assume it's not in a Transylvanian accent while sniffing necks (I won't ask if he's as vampiric IRL as in photos).

I could answer questions you didn't ask but you explicitly chose not to ask them so I won't.  (Except to say that Don's the type to make the same dad-level 'joke' every time he gives a presentation, transparently act as though he misspoke or didn't intend the joke, and then chuckle dryly at it.  Every.  Single.  Time.  Though this may be one of those stories which grows in the remembering since it's been years since I heard him give the same talk to multiple venues over a few days.)

I sorta know what you mean about Gary steamrolling from videos when he's "interviewing" people, though I haven't really seen that in person.  But yeah the marketing background shows.  Another speaker named Warwick Armstrong (retired many many years back) had a sales background and that showed too.  (I remember him introducing the idea of opening windows mid-presentation to make sure the audience stayed alert.)

Yeah those are the super camps.  They're generally fairly 'mainstream' in that jeans and shorts for women are pretty common, and dresses are generally less common.  So by that measure it's not hyper fundie.  And the full range of pop culture references are in display on t-shirts.  (and I heard some of the teen girls yammering about Miraculous Ladybug for a while between sessions)  Though the overall CMI message is one of taking the Bible very seriously, so anti-abortion and pro-man/woman marriage messages are on full display.  In particular, last year's camp had a couple of talks by Dr Kathy Wallace, one about the differences between male and female, and one about fetal microchimerism.  I found an article which covers the details of the latter talk here: https://vision.org.au/radio/2018/10/19/the-science-of-microchimerism-dr-kathy-wallace/  A notable quote:

Quote

The mortality rate increases with women who have children by more than two partners.

And homeschooling is fairly common.  Though not all the CMI speakers have/do/would and I know one who attempted it but discontinued due to personality conflicts between parents and child.  And some have larger families while others don't.  Some were even atheists until relatively recently.  So it's a mixed bunch.

Some local friends have visited the States and attended the ark encounter, so I've had the pleasure of sitting through them sharing their photos once or twice.

[bea 5,090]

Beall is promoting Operation Meatball on IG today - you, too, can download a free book by Liberty. On how to talk to a WWII veteran. Because normally apparently it costs money for Liberty to tell us how to have a conversation with another person.
Am I missing something? Who writes an entire book instructing others on how to talk to an elderly person? And why would anyone need a book on that??

[AnnaSofia 3,631]

I understand the significance of the red poppy, but man that blouse is fugly...

[Maxwell 1,581]

6 hours ago, bea said:

Beall is promoting Operation Meatball on IG today - you, too, can download a free book by Liberty. On how to talk to a WWII veteran. Because normally apparently it costs money for Liberty to tell us how to have a conversation with another person.
Am I missing something? Who writes an entire book instructing others on how to talk to an elderly person? And why would anyone need a book on that??

Well, I took one for the team and downloaded the thing.  It's 38 pages of "How to have a conversation" with sample dialog as well.  One gem that stood out was this:
 

Quote

Me: Did you receive the announcement that the war
had ended?
Veteran: Yes. I didn’t believe it at first. But they re-
peated the message again, so I brought it up to the Cap-
tain. He told me not to joke around like that or else I’d get
in real trouble.
Me: Eventually y’all figured out it was legit, right?
Veteran: Yep, it was tots legit! Yes. And boy were we thrilled.

(obvious editing by me)

Then there's "CHAPTER 5 Heavy-Weight Questions" with these interesting questions:

Quote

FATHERHOOD
• How did your relationship with your father prepare
you as a man for the challenges you faced during the Sec-
ond World War?
• What kind of a role model was your father?
• Was your father/mother a man of faith?
• Did you have a positive relationship with your fa-
ther?
• Did your father/mother give you any advice before
sending you off that affected the decisions you made?
• Is there anything the fathers of the present genera-
tion could learn from the fathers of the World War II
era?

I wonder how Liberty would answer those questions...
 

Quote

 

FAITH

• Did you consider yourself a religious person during
or after the war?
• How did the war affect your faith?
• Would you describe yourself as a Christian today?

 

"No... no, I'm Jewish sweety."

Overall impressions?  Writing style was OK, content was weak.  Not sure she knows the definition of the word "Theory".  Opening paragraph has Liberty stalking old men in the grocery store. 

Based on order number, this e-book is NOT a hot seller but hey, she can now claim she's a "Published Author".

[Jasmar 1,405]

She’s really still pushing the father worship/patriarchy crap? Seriously?? 😒

[FundieGhostWriter 334]

So, despite drag and Halloween (maybe it stops them thinking about other events on that date), evidently the family are still banging on about Fatherhood. Almost everything @Maxwell quoted (maybe not y'all and legit - perhaps inserted as personal touches, like a student plagiarizing a paper) reads like it could have been cut and pasted from Doug's blatherings of twenty years ago. Act Like Nothing's Wrong... (click the cover image if you don't know it) and with that in mind

23 hours ago, Maxwell said:

Was your father/mother a man of faith?

Please tell me it's worded that way in the original. Little Douglas, the father/mother man of faith. And 'Liberty just wishes she was Tom Selleck. That's all she's every really wanted in life...' - yeah, I'm not even sure the Phillips family get to joke like that. On Halloween. Given their teaching on gender roles. And popular culture. Was Tom Selleck a Confederate general? Was he in Fireproof? How did Liberty hear of him? Not on godless TV! Don't tell me the life of 'separate sanctification' of the Family that will Last was a phoney!

23 hours ago, Maxwell said:

Would you describe yourself as a Christian today?

Come on Dougie. Hands off that dancing girl and answer your daughter's question. ('Maybe not today, but I sure was yesterday!')

And Liberty - isn't it more important to ask:

Would you describe yourself as a Calvinist today?

On 11/11/2019 at 8:22 PM, CyborgKin said:

Warwick Armstrong (retired many many years back) had a sales background and that showed too.  (I remember him introducing the idea of opening windows mid-presentation to make sure the audience stayed alert.)

Saint Paul might warn against that. (I'm glad Don's fault is just dad-jokes. Some fundie 'wit' has all the charm and half the sophistication of blackface.) Have you found the super camp crowd welcoming, or do a lot of the people stick to their own little (cultish) 'silos'? (And OK, you've got me, TasW/Dracula - d'ya see what I mean?)

[browngrl 2,590]

On 11/11/2019 at 4:56 PM, bea said:

Who writes an entire book instructing others on how to talk to an elderly person?

I see you have not yet gone down the Maxwell family rabbit hole. 

[dripcurl 3,460]

On 11/9/2019 at 4:55 AM, Howl said:

Do they still believe in SAHD to some extent, or are some of the adults still staying with Beall for economic survival or familial support?

The fact that Jubilee is going to college is makes me think they are over all the bullshit when it comes to maidendom, but the fact that she is going to that particular school makes me think that they are still pretty fundie. However, at the end of the day, Jubilee may have really wanted to be in school, they had connections and she probably got a free ride. I would bot be surprised if Beall and the girls were done with the SAHD ideology, but yes, economic survival will probably have to keep them together for a while.

 

I went through this myself: I was very much done with trying to be a SAHD at 19, but I stayed home for four more years since I was in school and my family needed my help (not monetarily, but a complicated situation). Beall and the girls have had to throw themselves in the extreme opposite direction, and they don’t have the tools to do so. I imagine they will try to do hold together for a while, but if one or both of the older girls get married or move away, I think Beall will be more flexible about sending the younger 3 to school.

[JermajestyDuggar 120,897]

48 minutes ago, dripcurl said:

The fact that Jubilee is going to college is makes me think they are over all the bullshit when it comes to maidendom, but the fact that she is going to that particular school makes me think that they are still pretty fundie. However, at the end of the day, Jubilee may have really wanted to be in school, they had connections and she probably got a free ride. I would bot be surprised if Beall and the girls were done with the SAHD ideology, but yes, economic survival will probably have to keep them together for a while.

 

I went through this myself: I was very much done with trying to be a SAHD at 19, but I stayed home for four more years since I was in school and my family needed my help (not monetarily, but a complicated situation). Beall and the girls have had to throw themselves in the extreme opposite direction, and they don’t have the tools to do so. I imagine they will try to do hold together for a while, but if one or both of the older girls get married or move away, I think Beall will be more flexible about sending the younger 3 to school.

I agree that one of them will marry in the next couple of years. They may not be into the whole SAHD thing, but I’m sure they still aspire to be godly wives and mothers. They are all beautiful so one of the three oldest girls will have little trouble finding a GYM to propose.

[Jasmar 1,405]

I know this is a little silly, but I know how Beall pronounces her name, but I stubbornly cling to Beel when I read about her. I was recently visiting one of the universities my son is interested in, and they has a Beall Hall in the music department. They pronounce it Bell, as well. Not that that changes anything in my mind 😆

[CyborgKin 7,880]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:33 PM, FundieGhostWriter said:

Have you found the super camp crowd welcoming, or do a lot of the people stick to their own little (cultish) 'silos'?

It's all pretty friendly and welcoming with lots of mixing, though the most recent one wasn't as good because there wasn't an on-site indoor dining hall with tables, and there wasn't on-site breakfast (cos there was less on-site accommodation) which mean there were less chances to share a meal with new people.  (Which was fine by me since I'm an introvert.)  Still, it was pretty easy (even for me!) to get in a conversation with anyone standing around between sessions, and there were people from all over the country and even overseas (there always is).

And since the latest camp was a lot further north than any of the previous camps there was a pretty high proportion of attendees who hadn't attended one previously.  It's not just the same people every time.

I do remember at least one camp was back in the AiG days before the split, so Ken Ham was there.  My only impression was that he looked extremely busy.

Oh and a funny moment from a long ago from one of the sessions (It was something to do with cosmology) was when partway through the speaker said, "Now I'll summarise, in more detail."  Everyone who remembers that goof still gets a kick out of it.

[AnnaSofia 3,631]

On 11/15/2019 at 2:57 PM, dripcurl said:

The fact that Jubilee is going to college is makes me think they are over all the bullshit when it comes to maidendom, but the fact that she is going to that particular school makes me think that they are still pretty fundie. However, at the end of the day, Jubilee may have really wanted to be in school, they had connections and she probably got a free ride. I would bot be surprised if Beall and the girls were done with the SAHD ideology, but yes, economic survival will probably have to keep them together for a while.

 

 

I've wondered a bit about what the family game plan was had The Fall of the Tool not occurred. Even JT, who had already turned 20 some months prior to Tool O'Ween, was hanging around VF with no real indication (that I can recall) of pursuing an education beyond the SOTDRT, or anything else, really, other than making the occasional fencing or rock climbing video, and receiving his due as oldest son and heir.

I've always assumed that he attended Reformation Bible College simply because the opportunity was there at an otherwise fucked up time in his life. He could be near Delaney, presumably attend for free (technically "work-study" IIRC, but I imagine that as a prospective grandson-in-law it was an otherwise free ride), suck up to his future father-in-law (who hadn't yet completely tanked his own career and familial relationships at that point) and settle into the familiar role of dynastic heir (albeit by marriage in this case).

I suspect Jubilee is at the School O'Sproul for similar reasons, i.e. it's there/it's cheap or free/she wanted out of the house didn't know how else to do it. I actually don't think Beall and Doug necessarily had much to do with it. Beall did some of her signature weird vagueposting about how she had been concerned about Jubilee (though she stressed that the "path" Jubilee was on wasn't actually a "bad" one), and how pleasantly surprised she was that suddenly everything was falling into place. It gave me the impression that Jub had probably arranged things with Josh and Delaney, but not particularly included Beall in the process until everything was already more or less set up.

If VF were still going strong, I really don't think we'd see the Phillips offspring attending RBC. The Phillips and Sprouls always got along, but they had some theological differences, and back in the day, their domains really didn't overlap much. But at this point, Doug and Beall simply can't afford to be choosy.

I tend to think that after Beall got past the initial humiliation at her husband's very public downfall (and whatever his pursuit of Lourdes did privately to their marriage), she probably took comfort in the idea that the next grift was right around the corner. After all, he somehow managed to get the Bobby Bowden series financed, and they were all back in Europe, back in costume, and back in front of the cameras, almost as if nothing had ever happened.

I think that for the family there was a second, much more gradual fall from grace. The show wasn't picked up for distribution, Doug's other projects didn't get off the ground, and those still at home settled into a series of rundown rentals, service industry jobs, and a frequently absent father.  I suspect that the full reality of "this isn't just a bump in the road, this is a long-term lifestyle change" didn't hit home until much more recently.