Dillards 70: Their Behavior Is Always Pretty Weird

[singsingsing]

Maybe she's helping him study.

[Satan'sFortress]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:38 AM, AliceInFundyland said:

helter-skelter pecans

My new band name.

[cascarones]

I think she's very proud of his lawyering and wants to be publicly supportive. I don't like Derick, but as someone who needed her study spot and occasionally hated other library patrons at normal parts of the semester, I cringe so so hard at this.

Jill, no. Please let him study, understand you'll seem him after he makes it through finals and go back to posts about the food your family loves so much or show me more child hacks. 

10 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Maybe she's helping him study.

That's true, she could be quizzing him and eating popcorn flavored jelly beans.

I sort of want fancy jelly beans now. The Starburst ones at Easter are so so good.

[singsingsing]

Yeah... Guys, I'm sorry, I detest the Dillards as much (actually, probably more) than most people, but we literally have no idea what's happening here beyond the fact that he's studying and she's with him. People study with other people all the time. Maybe Derick asked her to keep him company because he focuses better when he's not alone. Or maybe she's quizzing him. Getting someone else to quiz me or go over the material with me was often very helpful when I was in uni.

I'm tired of all the blame for Jill's 'stage five clinginess' being placed solely on Jill, too. How do we know Derick's not the one demanding that she go everywhere and do everything with him? He's her headship, it's not like she'd say no. And as her headship, it's his responsibility anyway to put his foot down and say, "Jill, you can't be in here while I'm studying" or, "Jill, you can't show up on campus all the time" or, "Jill, I want you to stay at home with the boys when I go on this trip" if that's what he really wants. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

@singsingsing I got the impression she was helping him study as well. ITA with the Jill is damned no matter what she does, and I think 95% of it is total BEC and then some.  Yes she brings a lot of it on herself, she's socially awkward and tries too hard to make people like her and that comes off as pathetic and crazy most of the time.  But one thing no one seems to give her credit for is she is at least TRYING to find her place in the Duggar clan/society she's looking for a place she can excel and give her something to feel good about other than being Mrs. Derrick Dillard. Where as Jinger, for example, is given a pass for following Jeremy everywhere, and all Jinger seems to do is be a pretty package sat next to her pretty husband who is looking to become the next Joel Osteen, the mega church pastor with lots of money and lots of fans.

There comes a point I just want to defend Jill because it seems no matter what she's doing people are going to jump her and criticize her for merely existing. Yes I get it, Derrick is a horrible person and she's kind of a train wreck, but she's not Derrick and she's not just sitting there riding her husband coat tails while he makes their live into a nice Instagram photo op.  The Vuolo's and the Dillards have the same horrific beliefs the Vuolo's just look better while being assholes than the Dillard's do.  

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

@singsingsing I got the impression she was helping him study as well. ITA with the Jill is damned no matter what she does, and I think 95% of it is total BEC and then some.  Yes she brings a lot of it on herself, she's socially awkward and tries too hard to make people like her and that comes off as pathetic and crazy most of the time.  But one thing no one seems to give her credit for is she is at least TRYING to find her place in the Duggar clan/society she's looking for a place she can excel and give her something to feel good about other than being Mrs. Derrick Dillard. Where as Jinger, for example, is given a pass for following Jeremy everywhere, and all Jinger seems to do is be a pretty package sat next to her pretty husband who is looking to become the next Joel Osteen, the mega church pastor with lots of money and lots of fans.

There comes a point I just want to defend Jill because it seems no matter what she's doing people are going to jump her and criticize her for merely existing. Yes I get it, Derrick is a horrible person and she's kind of a train wreck, but she's not Derrick and she's not just sitting there riding her husband coat tails while he makes their live into a nice Instagram photo op.  The Vuolo's and the Dillards have the same horrific beliefs the Vuolo's just look better while being assholes than the Dillard's do.  

The thing, Jill was always shown as the vocal, know it all, 2nd generation Duggar Family mouthpiece. It.was.always.Jill, as compared to Jinger, who despite her brief young teen eyeball rolling, thumbs up displayed and being the recipient of a Blog named for her, has never been shown to be particularly focused or driven; Jinger never fought for the individual limelight. Jinger never spoke over or reprimanded her siblings or anyone.  Jill's skills have diminished since she has attained Duggar adult status.

To be honest, Jessa was shown via the show (and it has been affirmed by her parents and siblings) to be rather ill tempered and bitchy in her teen years, so people, in the past, were hard on her too. The big difference here is that Jessa has seemed to rise about that outside the TTH.

 

[DillyDally]

@singsingsing and @allthegoodnamesrgone Thanks for your viewpoints, it's also interesting that a similar debate is developing in the JinJer thread at the moment.

Maybe my post was a bit too snarky, I guess it's just a habit with Jill. I just have a problem with the fact that she seems to have hardly any interests of her own, no intellectual curiosity whatsoever. If she's helping Derick study, fine, her post just did not make it sound like that, more like a fun afternoon on the couch with #besthubbyever and some jellybeans. Sorry, but that's not how you study for an exam at university level, in my opinion, more like homeschooling on the Duggar compound. But Jill probably doesn't know any different. It's the same spiel as with Jill accompanying him to (a) lecture(s), she always needs to present these occasions as spending time together with Derick instead of appreciating the opportunity to learn something new/broaden her horizons.

But I also admit, we do not know if Derick maybe prefers her to be that clingy/wants her to help him study in this way. Unlike some other posters in this forum, I do not necessarily think Derick going back to school is a bad idea, as long as their financials are sorted and they don't need to resort to grifting. Bu then, please Derick and Jill, take it seriously and go through with it. Jill's post just did not give off that impression to me. Study time is study time, not #timetogether. Again, just my opinion.

Oh, and regarding Jinger and Jeremy: I was actually contemplating whether I should post about Jinger frequently accompanying Jeremy... I don't know, I just find it a bit unnecessary money-wise, but I can see how that whole "pastor wife/family" thing might be important for their image (even if I find it a bit strange from my European, Atheist viewpoint). And I appreciate being occasionally reminded in this forum that their views are just as toxic as the Dillards', so thanks for that, too, everybody ?

[Four is Enough]

40 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

 and all Jinger seems to do is be a pretty package sat next to her pretty husband who is looking to become the next Joel Osteen, the mega church pastor with lots of money and lots of fans. 

Don't forget lots of teeth....

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

8 minutes ago, DillyDally said:

@singsingsing and @allthegoodnamesrgone Thanks for your viewpoints, it's also interesting that a similar debate is developing in the JinJer thread at the moment.

Maybe my post was a bit too snarky, I guess it's just a habit with Jill. I just have a problem with the fact that she seems to have hardly any interests of her own, no intellectual curiosity whatsoever. If she's helping Derick study, fine, her post just did not make it sound like that, more like a fun afternoon on the couch with #besthubbyever and some jellybeans. Sorry, but that's not how you study for an exam at university level, in my opinion, more like homeschooling on the Duggar compound. 

That is not how YOU study at the university level, I personally spent many a night at the kitchen table or on the couch doing my homework with my kids doing theirs. It was the best way for me to get to spend time with them, I worked full time and went to school full time while raising 2 kids and being married.  It wasn't ideal but I made it work, for me it was nice to just have someone near by at times because it was a little isolating to be doing everything I was doing so I would have my family near by just to feel like I was still part of the activity even if I was only 1/2 paying attention. 

I'm not trying to defend Jill's bizarreness or Derrick's awfulness, it just seems that the mob mentality gets out of hand occasionally. Where Jinger and even Jessa are given a lot more leeway Jill is given none. But I also agree that most of the time they bring that on themselves because they are so odd.  

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Maybe she's helping him study.

My thought exactly. My husband and I studied together throughout our Bachelor degree programs, his graduate program, and while he studied for the (notoriously difficult) CPA exam. After I finished my degree I’d either read or I’d quiz him on the material he was studying. Sometimes we’d even have snack breaks (the horror!) or take a break to cuddle (where the fuck are my pearls for I must clutch them!!!) Studying that way allowed him to do what he had to, while also giving us a chance to actually see each other - between work and studying he wouldn’t have had time otherwise. If Law School is really as intense for Derick as so many people make it seem then this could very well be the best way for them to simultaneously get stuff done while also getting some time together. I really don’t see a reason to snark. 

And count me in on being sick of all the “stage five clinger” criticism being lobbed at Jill. It’s possible that touch is an extremely important way for one or both of them to feel loved, which could easily explain why they seem to touch a lot. If it’s important to Jill then I’d feel pretty bad for her considering the type of family she grew up in - I don’t know how much opportunity she would have had for that kind of affection or attention growing up. It’s also possible that Derick is perfectly fine with Jill being around all the time or that he’s the one encouraging her to be around him constantly. 

As for JinJer, someone stated in their thread that as a Pastor’s wife it’s kind of her job to support Jeremy the way she’s been shown doing. That’s a really foreign concept to me since I’m not religious, but I can kind of understand that view. I don’t know how involved Jinger really is with his ministry though, so their social media does give me more of an “Jinger is arm candy with tons of fans” kind of impression than anything. Maybe that’s unfair, but that is the feeling I get from the parts of their lives they choose to share. I do think that it could be argued that Jill is also kind of doing her “job” by supporting her husband emotionally while he’s in school and taking care of their kids though. 

[HereticHick]

I feel a bit sad for Jill if she ever wanted to attend university--and this study help is the closest she will ever get.

[Carm_88]

I would strangle someone if they were close to me, when I was trying to study. I couldn't go to the library because somehow I always ended up near the person who was sick, and they would be snuffling the whole time. I also talk to myself and explain to myself as I study. So I would say be studying for Classics and I would tell myself the story of Hercules as I knew it and then I would roll over and go "What the fuck did I do with Homer?" Some people are better with being around other people when they are studying, I end up wanting to kill them. No matter how much I like them.

[Glasgowghirl]

If Derek asked her to help then that is fine, he has never said that Jill is to clingy for him. Derick is not one to keep his opinions to himself, so I am sure he would make it known if it wasn't ok. I am in the library just now and have noisy people at a different table that are so disruptive, i should have went to the university one and not a local one.

I hope Derick going to law school pushes Jill into going to college if she wishes to.

[Lurky]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I feel a bit sad for Jill if she ever wanted to attend university--and this study help is the closest she will ever get.

100% this.  And we know she DID want to go to university, as she wanted to be both a nurse and a midwife. 

But let's occam's razor this relationship.  Derick specifically wanted a submissive uneducated wife who would let him be the headship - is it REALLY likely Jill rules the roost, and insists on being around poor Derek when he doesn't want her there, or that Derek is the one wanting her around?   For all we know, Jill could still want to do courses, have hobbies, have friends, and Derick is the one stopping her, while he gets to explore the world in different ways.

I've always felt for Jill - she worked so, so hard to be the perfect golden child, and all that happened is that she never had a "best friend" sibling.  The other older ones all do (or did, until the Fall of Josh), but Jill only has her adopted sibling-kids, where they could never be peers, as she was parenting them.  I feel for the Duggar who wanted to get educated and have a career, but was denied that (in the same way that I feel for Jessa being presented as a "bitchy" Duggar just because she wouldn't buckle down and Keep Sweet.  I applaud her for her small rebellions).

In any other relationship, I would be hoping that once the kids are older, and Derick has finished his law degree, Jill could get some kind of education, as she seems pretty passionate about it, whether it's by proxy through her husband, or through her Bible study.  But these are the Dillards - once Derick finishes this course, he'll start a theology degree, or an MBA or another Masters, and then another one, and then a PhD etc etc, and Jill will always come second.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I think a lot of issues people have with Jill is that she’s not good at nuanced communication.

She presents ideas in very, very basic phrasing that makes her seem somewhat simple and clinging.

ive known people who were not like that at all, but would absolutely come off that way if you only knew them through their written word.

not everyone has a conversational writing style and if a Duggar happens to have that they come by it naturally since It’s clear being well written wasn’t a priority at their SOTDRT.

im not saying she is or isn’t anything when it comes to clingy or inept or whatever ...I’m saying a think a lot of the shit she gets is for inadequate communication skills and it makes me sad she’s paying the price for the education neglect she suffered growing up.

[Lurky]

12 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

not everyone has a conversational writing style and if a Duggar happens to have that they come by it naturally since It’s clear being well written wasn’t a priority at their SOTDRT.

im not saying she is or isn’t anything when it comes to clingy or inept or whatever ...I’m saying a think a lot of the shit she gets is for inadequate communication skills and it makes me sad she’s paying the price for the education neglect she suffered growing up.

Yes, yes, this too.  I've said this before, but Jill's social media looks weird in comparison to other young women her age, but she wasn't allowed to learn social media as a teen, like her peers did - and hers is all a) expected to be an example of a Godly lifestyle, or even a Mission, and b) very, very public.  So while she's 27, she's only been allowed social media since she got engaged 4 years ago - so it's more like a social media age of 18.

And her education was so terrible.  Completing workbooks means she has probably never had to do an essay until her Bible study in the last few years, and I'd bet the nearest to trying to come up with persuasive arguments is finding Bible verses to back up what is a pre-approved point of view.  I feel so strongly for these kids, and worse, for the younger kids and the next generation, who had to rely on them for their own education.  At least Jill seems to value education, so I think she'll make an effort with her own sons - it's just she's been so hamstrung by her parents, she might not even see where her own education was deficient.  Here's to Derick deciding to send the boys to school, and Jill getting the chance to learn more, through helping them with their homework, if she'll never get to do formal education herself.

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, Lurky said:

 At least Jill seems to value education, so I think she'll make an effort with her own sons - it's just she's been so hamstrung by her parents, she might not even see where her own education was deficient. 

I feel bad that Jill wanted to go to university and wasn't allowed to do so. I hope that they send the boys to school, but I am really doubting that will happen. I don't want Israel and Sam to look to Derick and wonder why his degrees will be much harder for them to achieve.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Looks like Jill is shilling honey. Fine with me, we love honey, the only sugar in the house is for hummingbirds!  Maybe this one will work for her.  I think she looks tired but it could be the shirt colour, it doesn’t suit her.

Spoiler

Edit;  Jill’s shilling T shirts and pullovers, not honey.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

As far as I know Jill is the only Duggar daughter who has taken college classes. Not Jinger, not Jessa. Now they may not have wanted to and I don't want them to be forced to,  but I think that they aren't as intellectually curious as Jill. They might be and more so. It's just that, honestly, based on what's presented to me, Jill actually comes across like the most intellectually curious daughter. Yes, Jill. I remember Derrick proof-reading one of her papers for a bible class. I have never heard of Jinger or Jessa doing that. I am not asking for them to be Bible scholars. Just to put their money where their mouth is about having a passion for the word of God. I see that in Jill more than Jinger or Jessa.

[acheronbeach]

17 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I think a lot of issues people have with Jill is that she’s not good at nuanced communication.

She presents ideas in very, very basic phrasing that makes her seem somewhat simple and clinging.

ive known people who were not like that at all, but would absolutely come off that way if you only knew them through their written word.

not everyone has a conversational writing style and if a Duggar happens to have that they come by it naturally since It’s clear being well written wasn’t a priority at their SOTDRT.

im not saying she is or isn’t anything when it comes to clingy or inept or whatever ...I’m saying a think a lot of the shit she gets is for inadequate communication skills and it makes me sad she’s paying the price for the education neglect she suffered growing up.

Except that her siblings passed through exactly the same educational program as her, and seem able to articulate their feelings and thoughts in a much more complex way than Jill.  

Frankly, I think Jill's writing reflects who Jill is.  We've never seen her - either on the show or on her social media - being nuanced in any way.  Her behaviour is that of a very black and white thinker; toe the line, you Get to Meet Prince Charming.  Tattle on your siblings, become the very best child.  

Life doesn't work that way.  But unlike her sisters, who now seem more able reflect upon what makes something good, or why they feel a certain way, Jill just doubles down on the bald hyperbole - BEST husband!  FAVORITE book!  SPECTACULAR boiled veg!  

[HereticHick]

Total BEC here, but having "Honey" plastered across your bosoms is not what Steve Maxwell would call modest. 

[Lurky]

1 minute ago, acheronbeach said:

Except that her siblings passed through exactly the same educational program as her, and seem able to articulate their feelings and thoughts in a much more complex way than Jill. 

Sue, but my siblings and I went to the same schools, and have very different strengths and weaknesses - my brother is incredibly musical, for example, and I'm.... not, while I'm much better at languages than he is.  So Jessa started out bad at social media too, in her equivalent-of-15 period, but was able to become fluent in it and Jinger was allowed to focus on her photography, which makes her so much better at instagram, and having watched her sisters using it, could learn from their mistakes.   Jana doesn't do social media, because she doesn't have the pressure to bring in the money like Jill has - but maybe she'd be as bad at it too.  Joe and Kendra keep right off it, Joy uses it a lot less too, so of course Jill looks a lot worse at it, compared to Jessa and Jinger, but for all we know, all the young men and Jana would be terrible at it too, and that's why they stay off it.

[SassyPants]

9 minutes ago, Lurky said:

Sue, but my siblings and I went to the same schools, and have very different strengths and weaknesses - my brother is incredibly musical, for example, and I'm.... not, while I'm much better at languages than he is.  So Jessa started out bad at social media too, in her equivalent-of-15 period, but was able to become fluent in it and Jinger was allowed to focus on her photography, which makes her so much better at instagram, and having watched her sisters using it, could learn from their mistakes.   Jana doesn't do social media, because she doesn't have the pressure to bring in the money like Jill has - but maybe she'd be as bad at it too.  Joe and Kendra keep right off it, Joy uses it a lot less too, so of course Jill looks a lot worse at it, compared to Jessa and Jinger, but for all we know, all the young men and Jana would be terrible at it too, and that's why they stay off it.

Jana doesn't do IG because according to her family's beliefs, she is still a child and under the direction and authority of her father.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I wish Jana would instagram. She would probably be better at it than Jill.

[acheronbeach]

18 minutes ago, Lurky said:

Sue, but my siblings and I went to the same schools, and have very different strengths and weaknesses - my brother is incredibly musical, for example, and I'm.... not, while I'm much better at languages than he is.  So Jessa started out bad at social media too, in her equivalent-of-15 period, but was able to become fluent in it and Jinger was allowed to focus on her photography, which makes her so much better at instagram, and having watched her sisters using it, could learn from their mistakes.   Jana doesn't do social media, because she doesn't have the pressure to bring in the money like Jill has - but maybe she'd be as bad at it too.  Joe and Kendra keep right off it, Joy uses it a lot less too, so of course Jill looks a lot worse at it, compared to Jessa and Jinger, but for all we know, all the young men and Jana would be terrible at it too, and that's why they stay off it.

I think that's what I'm trying to say, albeit not that clearly.  It's not - as some have suggested on here - an educational issue, it's a strengths and intellect issue.  Despite Michelle's mediocre SOTDRT, some of the Duggarlings have shown a decent capacity for self-improvement and self-teaching.  Jill has never seemed to be good at thinking that way.   

Jill is not particularly charismatic or articulate.  She has access to places and people that could broaden her horizons and make for fascinating content (IMO, moreso than her sisters).  She is a terrible blogger.  I don't understand why she's in it at all, since it just makes her and her husband the object of ridicule.  

I'm sure there are lots of other things that Jill would be great at.  I just don't see her realizing it... it's gonna be an unending stream of SOOO YUMMY soup casseroles and BEST HUBBY EVAR posts.