Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

I mentioned this to show that it's pretty easy to jump to conclusions (the conclusions we want, usually) based on a photo. Everyone does it.

However, in Kelton's case, there's more than just a photo. There's his testimony in "The Knot." There's the history of the couple, and Josie's young age. His support of Trump. His blithe assumption that only guys are plumbers (this shows a limited knowledge of the world, if nothing else).

I’ll agree with you here. It’s extremely easy to jump to conclusions on all sorts of things based off a few photos. I know I’ve done it before and it’s likely that everyone else on this board has as well (whether it’s Erin and her painting or Jill Dill and her “obvious” stage five clinger status or how Jinger is just a piece of popular arm candy for Jeremy.) And I’ll also agree that all the additional things you listed do give me extra reason to look more critically at Kelton and worry a bit more about what type of husband and father he may be.

@Naughty&nice was correct though that no one was criticizing the post by @AliceInFundyland. Not even @HerNameIsBuffy, the Moderator who gave the reminder in this case that speculation about possible sexual assault victims is not allowed. That warning was administered due to a few other posters who came close to crossing the line (I’m guessing unintentionally.) It’s one thing to speculate in broad terms that you hope a couple is enjoying the benefits of being married and another to say you hope someone isn’t a rapist.

[LegHumperBibleThumper]

4 hours ago, Naughty&nice said:

@Hisey you need to go back & read this discussion more carefully.  No one has a  problem with what @AliceInFundyland said.  She was speaking in general terms. The moderator stepped in because of the comments by @nausicaa , @Melissa1977, @LegHumperBibleThumper & @Casserole who all implied they thought Kelton might be raping Josie. (or put more delicately, hoped he wasn't.)

 

I’ll thank you to take my name out of this. NO WHERE did I say that I thought Kelton was RAPING Josie or anything of the like. I merely stated that we may see more PDA in the future than Josie might be comfortable with. I didn’t “imply” anything. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

FWIW if a woman applied and felt she wasn’t considered because of her gender she might fond hos little snippet very helpful.

that kind of thing is extremely hard to prove and this being put out there as the face of the company is ... stupid.

If they have 15 employee or more they are held to fed statutes - can’t recall if TN has a lower bar.  I want to say it’s 8 but on phone not looking it up 

[AliceInFundyland]

Oh for crying out loud.

@Naughty&nice is a troll. A one trick pony troll.

At this point he/she has picked this hill to die on. You only come back to stir up dissension when we get back on this thing about Kelton. Repeatedly now. Every time it flares up.

Offer some informed opinions elsewhere about something and I’ll change my mind. Hell, offer some uninformed opinions.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, LegHumperBibleThumper said:

I’ll thank you to take my name out of this. NO WHERE did I say that I thought Kelton was RAPING Josie or anything of the like. I merely stated that we may see more PDA in the future than Josie might be comfortable with. I didn’t “imply” anything. 

Yeah, same here. I don't like this dude at all, but would never call him a rapist with no evidence. The only thing I said was the following about the butt grabbing photo:

"And in light of the data I've amassed so far about Kelton, it kinda bothers me for deeper reasons too.  I hope Josie was okay with this. I hope Josie gets to say whether she is okay with this."

I stand by that. Kelton hasn't exactly shown himself to be the most mature, emotionally intelligent person, and I hope Josie feels comfortable with stating her boundaries with PDA, or anything else in their relationship. I hope that for all of the Bates girls. That's all.

(I realize we're probably feeding a troll here, but I just couldn't shut my mouth on this one.)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Ftr I wasn’t thinking of anyone in particular when I posted a reminder of the speculating rule.  The tone in general seemed to be dancing near the line of speculating of whether or not she’s a victim of unconsentusl sexual activity and it was just a general statement.

no warnings issued, no PMs sent, I couldn’t have given you a name because it wasn’t that big a deal just an fyi.  

Not sure why this is getting nit picked to death  right now when there are real problems in the world, like what the hell im going to do with two pot roasts.

(last time I bought meat in bulk I tossed in freezer without separating them and now I have to cook 2 big pot roasts for 4 people and I don’t want to eat pot roast for the next 7 weeks.

we al know what happened to Lizzie Borden when served too much mutton.)

[Eponine]

I'm wondering why this couple in particular is bringing out the worries about consent when we know that patriarchal cultures in general don't really have the concept of "consent" within marriage. So we basically know that all these members of the 2nd generation fundies were not raised with or taught about the idea that a wife can refuse sex to her husband. Isn't Michelle Duggar on record saying that a wife should "joyfully submit" (or something like that) when her husband is in the mood for fellowshipping?

I think it's pretty safe to assume that most of these couples - both the husbands and the wives - don't really have a concept of marital rape. That's not to say I think it happens regularly, it might or might not, but it's interesting that it's not something people really discuss with other couples, at least that I've seen.

I think this is probably one of the most detrimental and insidious aspects to fundie culture for women: the idea that you don't own your body, that it's just meant for your husband's pleasure and to produce babies. If you find pleasure too it's like a nice bonus, but not necessary.

Again, I don't think it necessarily happens like that with most fundie couples, but it's acceptable in the culture overall.

[Carm_88]

19 minutes ago, Eponine said:

I'm wondering why this couple in particular is bringing out the worries about consent when we know that patriarchal cultures in general don't really have the concept of "consent" within marriage.

I think Kelton's attitude has a lot to do with it. He's very entitled and it came out in the love story that he wrote for the Knot. He thought that Kelly, Gil, and Josie all had to be forgiven by him for not allowing him to court Josie at a very young age. When it was likely that Josie was not at all ready for that. She's young now, but she was only 15-16 when he wanted to start the whole courting thing. It was a very snotty attitude that rubbed me the complete wrong way. So I guess that entitled attitude continues and it's not great.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I also get a vibe that one or two individual fundie men may be fairly sweet and gentle with their wives, vile beliefs aside. I have a very hard time imagining Joe Duggar being a violent individual towards Kendra even though I know he's 110% fudie with a fair amount of nasty beliefs. I don't want to deny fundies a shred of individuality and autonomy just because their cult/culture does.

(I hope that wasn't speculation.)

[Naughty&nice]

2 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Oh for crying out loud.

@Naughty&nice is a troll. A one trick pony troll.

At this point he/she has picked this hill to die on. You only come back to stir up dissension when we get back on this thing about Kelton. Repeatedly now. Every time it flares up.

Offer some informed opinions elsewhere about something and I’ll change my mind. Hell, offer some uninformed opinions.

Im not sure why agreeing with @just_ordinary that this conversation was going too far makes me a troll.   It just seems to me that some of you have an over-the-top reaction to Kelton.   It's fine to dislike him.  It's fine to think he's creepy.  I just think getting vibes that tell you that he's probably abusing his wife is going too far.

As for uninformed opinions,  Ive never met a female plumber.  As a matter of fact, I've probably had a hundred tradespeople do work for me over the years and not one carpenter, plumber, roofer, electrician, tile layer, mason, painter or landscaper was ever female (& I don't live in the south). I don't think most woman  want to do these types of jobs.  I cant see any barriers to entry for them.  I looked it up and it seems the entire plumbing/pipe-laying industry in the US is less that 1.5% female.  It is pretty dirty work.  I wouldn't want to crawl around under peoples houses in animal feces and open up sewer lines.  YUK. 

[AliceInFundyland]

27 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

Im not sure why agreeing with @just_ordinary that this conversation was going too far makes me a troll.   It just seems to me that some of you have an over the top reaction to Kelton.   It's fine to dislike him.  It's fine to think he's creepy.  I just think getting vibes that tell you that he probably abusing his wife is going to far.

As for uninformed opinions,  Ive never met a female plumber.  As a matter of fact, I've probably had a hundred tradespeople do work for me over the years and not one carpenter, plumber, electrician, tile layer, mason, painter or landscaper was ever female. (& I don't live in the south). I don't think most woman  want to do these types of jobs.  I cant see any barriers to entry for them.   I looked it up and it seems the entire plumbing/pipe-laying industry in the US is less that 1.5% female.  It is pretty dirty work.  I wouldn't want to crawl around under people houses in animal feces and open up sewer lines.  YUK.

You know why. It was explained to in laborious excruciating detail the first time you came here.

Trolls come back and pretend that shit didn’t happen. 

They avoid. They emphasize the use of words like rape. And are oblique. And act as though they have been participating in a conversation all along by saying “dear” in a condescending manner, when in reality they have lurked.

And then respond to some snark comment as if to try and jump into drift. Yeah right. Let’s talk female plumbers.

If anyone is new I refer you back a few months to a really long, boring, heated conversation prior to their wedding when we learned about Kelton’s feelings about Josie. 

I stand by my own feelings and please Rufus let us not go down that ridiculous spiral again. I think we concurred, and have again. Kelton is icky

Quit overexaggerating The mod issued a warning. She was being precautionary. The concerned parties have clarified. Most everyone thinks he’s just a douche. Since you think that’s fine, bugger off again.

That’s all you’ll get from me. You know damn well what you’re doing.

[singsingsing]

Wow, what a solid argument for discriminating against any woman who might want to enter a certain profession: women shouldn't want to go into that field of work anyway, because 'dirt' and 'yuk'! Gosh, you guys, that really did it for me!

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Not sure why this is getting nit picked to death  right now when there are real problems in the world, like what the hell im going to do with two pot roasts.

(last time I bought meat in bulk I tossed in freezer without separating them and now I have to cook 2 big pot roasts for 4 people and I don’t want to eat pot roast for the next 7 weeks.

Call me when they are done, I'll take one off your hands!

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Ftr I wasn’t thinking of anyone in particular when I posted a reminder of the speculating rule.  The tone in general seemed to be dancing near the line of speculating of whether or not she’s a victim of unconsentusl sexual activity and it was just a general statement.

no warnings issued, no PMs sent, I couldn’t have given you a name because it wasn’t that big a deal just an fyi.  

Not sure why this is getting nit picked to death  right now when there are real problems in the world, like what the hell im going to do with two pot roasts.

(last time I bought meat in bulk I tossed in freezer without separating them and now I have to cook 2 big pot roasts for 4 people and I don’t want to eat pot roast for the next 7 weeks.

we al know what happened to Lizzie Borden when served too much mutton.)

I’ll bite. What happened to Lizzie Borden when she was served too much mutton? 

As for dinner, I made Pasta Fagioli tonight and it was an adventure. I’ve made it before, but that was before Velocitoddler learned how to drag the damn kitchen chair over to the counter while proudly proclaiming “Helper!” It’s admittedly really freaking adorable, except for the fact that the Doctor said she shouldn’t climb on chairs to help after she fell and bumped her head last week. I almost started laughing at that because she’s twice as stubborn as I am and just as determined as her dad - so any power struggle between us is pretty much over before it even starts. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I’ll bite. What happened to Lizzie Borden when she was served too much mutton? 

Pa Borden was very cheap so he insististed they continue to eat the mutton stew, including for breakfast, until it was finished.  

It sat, reheated, rancid and eaten for days without refirdgeration in temps of 90-100 range.

experts assume her motives for giving out all those whacks were far more conplex but (the equivolent of) a multimillionaire making me eat spoiled mutton and then you throw in the heat and corsets ... Idk how much more provocation she’d have needed  

am I the only one who’d have done an ‘ooops’ and knocked that freaking pot of stew over into the fire?

(Your stories of lil VT make me long for a time machine when mine were little.  So cute!)

 

 

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Naughty&nice said:

I don't think most woman  want to do these types of jobs.  I cant see any barriers to entry for them.

Why would a man want to do these jobs? I doubt they enjoy opening sewer lines any more than women. I imagine they do it for money.

You have seen a barrier to entry, you just don't realize it. Kelton's video--his statement that only men should come work for his firm. If even 50% of the plumbing outfits in the US share the same attitude, that goes a long way to showing the barrier to entry.

I don't think men enjoy "icky" work and women hate it. I imagine women like to make a plumber's salary just was much as men do.

[Palimpsest]

19 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I’ll bite. What happened to Lizzie Borden when she was served too much mutton? 

Are you serious?  Perhaps.

Lizzie Borden took an axe 
And gave her mother forty whacks. 
When she saw what she had done, 
She gave her father forty one.

And she was acquitted of the crimes, thank you very much.  People forget that. The house is now a Bed and Breakfast hotel and supposedly haunted. I hope they don't serve mutton for breakfast.  https://lizzie-borden.com/

24 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

As for dinner, I made Pasta Fagioli tonight

SO jealous.  We are having veggie stir fry.  Even I'm bored with it.

[DundeeUnFundie]

In high school, we petitioned our catholic school for a 'shop/woodworks/mechanics' sort of class instead of the usual sewing/cooking. They gathered us together and firmly told us it wasn't going to happen, despite obvious interest.
While the school might have had other reasons (lack of teachers or facilities, money, etc), I do think that a big part of the reason there are fewer females in tradie jobs is the access. Most tradies I know started an apprenticeship in high school, and it was normally a public school (so aimed at lower socioeconomic areas). In my school the only 'traineeship' we had on offer was childcare, and we were all expected to pursue a higher education, and the same was for our 'brother schools' though they did have woodwork/construction classes.

My sister wants to be a mechanic and it's my father that is teaching her how to fix bikes and cars.
((I'm incredibly grateful for my education, just pointing out some differences I have noticed))

[Naughty&nice]

2 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

 

Wow @AliceInFundyland You are making my point about over-the-top reactions.  

As to the plumbing thing, you asked for my “uninformed opinion on something” so I gave you one. Sheesh

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

And she was acquitted of the crimes, thank you very much.  People forget that.

I don't.  I am ashamed of how fascinating I find the case.

[AliceInFundyland]

@VelociRapture I like how kids pick a new word and use it as much as possible.

One of my early memories is my little brother learning “hot” and using it at every opportunity. I can see his little face wrinkling up in great dismay and the voice getting shriller and shriller.

Of course, he’d also use it at leisure to describe anything that went in his mouth.

Around the same time he figured out that olives were NOT grapes. A similar reaction occurred (This is all linked in my mind) He wouldn’t touch them for some time. Shrieking little brothers have quite an impact on you.

[Naughty&nice]

6 minutes ago, Hisey said:

You have seen a barrier to entry, you just don't realize it. Kelton's video--his statement that only men should come work for his firm. 

Where did he say that only men should come to work for his firm?  I watched the video twice.  Is it in there? 

[singsingsing]

6 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

Wow @Alice in Fundieland, You are making my point about over-the-top reactions.  

As to the plumbing thing, you asked for my “uninformed opinion on something” so I gave you one. Sheesh

Countdown to 'this was all a social experiment!' or 'I was joking the whole time and you fools played straight into my hands!' in 3... 2... 1...

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Are you serious?  Perhaps.

Lizzie Borden took an axe 
And gave her mother forty whacks. 
When she saw what she had done, 
She gave her father forty one.

And she was acquitted of the crimes, thank you very much.  People forget that. The house is now a Bed and Breakfast hotel and supposedly haunted. I hope they don't serve mutton for breakfast.  https://lizzie-borden.com/

SO jealous.  We are having veggie stir fry.  Even I'm bored with it.

Lol! I know that she allegedly killed her dad and step-mom, but I’d never heard rancid mutton as the motive. 

And thanks! It came out ok this time. Velocitoddler are her entire serving and wanted more, so I’m counting it as a major win. 

26 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Pa Borden was very cheap so he insististed they continue to eat the mutton stew, including for breakfast, until it was finished.  

It sat, reheated, rancid and eaten for days without refirdgeration in temps of 90-100 range.

experts assume her motives for giving out all those whacks were far more conplex but (the equivolent of) a multimillionaire making me eat spoiled mutton and then you throw in the heat and corsets ... Idk how much more provocation she’d have needed  

am I the only one who’d have done an ‘ooops’ and knocked that freaking pot of stew over into the fire?

(Your stories of lil VT make me long for a time machine when mine were little.  So cute!)

 

 

Aw thanks! I know she’s not going to be little for much longer, so I’m trying to really savor as much of this time as I can. 

 

8 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

@VelociRapture I like how kids pick a new word and use it as much as possible.

One of my early memories is my little brother learning “hot” and using it at every opportunity. I can see his little face wrinkling up in great dismay and the voice getting shriller and shriller.

Of course, he’d also use it at leisure to describe anything that went in his mouth.

Around the same time he figured out that olives were NOT grapes. A similar reaction occurred (This is all linked in my mind) He wouldn’t touch them for some time. Shrieking little brothers have quite an impact on you.

Lol! Velocitoddler actually did that with hot too! Everything we served her was declared as “hot!” for a while. It was completely adorable. 

7 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Countdown to 'this was all a social experiment!' or 'I was joking the whole time and you fools played straight into my hands!' in 3... 2... 1...

Bonus points if there’s a casual mention of six figure pet fish who are constipated. 

[kmachete14]

My uninformed (well, slightly informed) idea:

There are a lot more women, and a lot more high-achieving women, going to college than men. So, women are taking the college route rather than the trade school route (a la whichever poster said her all-girls Catholic high school only considered them going to higher ed).

I am not dissing trade school, but I do think men going to trade school a) can't afford college / won't get scholarships  b) aren't good at traditional school or c) want to have a stable income more quickly due to pressures to be a man, raise a family, etc.

Girls get into college more easily and are more often better at traditional school. Lower income girls with good grades are being encouraged to go to college to become doctors, not to "Settle" for trade school. Lower income boys often have worse grades (through many diff reasons), and thus miss the boat for college and are encouraged to go to trade schools.