Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

Josie and Kelton while both are probably fundies are living in what has been described as the most evangelical state in the union.  

[metheglyn]

9 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Continued from here:

 

Josie and Kelton while both are probably fundies are living in what has been described as the most evangelical state in the union.  

Well that image looks...interesting. Apparently it's just Josie at an extreme angle, but the way the image cropped it ends up looking like she has two heads!

[Iamtheway]

On 10/15/2018 at 4:07 PM, CarrotCake said:

No pictures waist-down for Josie, do you think they are doing it on purpose to keep everyone guessing if she wears shorts? ?

I read the beginning of your post and was thinking: ”There is NO way we’re starting the pregnancy watch already!” 

I also figured out why I can’t stop thinking Josie looks like a little girl. She is very young but it’s because she looks just like my little sister did when she was little. My sister looks different (but still very pretty) now when she’s an adult but when she was 8–10 years old her face looked exactly like 19 year old Josie’s.

[HarleyQuinn]

I just wanted to bring @VelociRapture's photo to the new thread because it made me laugh so hard.

[Rachel333]

Regarding the conversation at the end of the last thread, I absolutely think American Evangelicals are privileged.  Some people making jokes about them doesn't change the fact that they are the largest religious group in the US (with a majority of Americans being at least some form of Christian) and have an incredible amount of political power. They end up making a lot of the policy that the rest of us have to live with, and their goals are to force their religious beliefs on the country.

Josie and Kelton definitely live in a bubble of privilege, and while of course it's not bad that they're white*, being white is a big part of why they're privileged (as it is for me too).

*Did anyone actually say otherwise? "It's okay to be white" is, on the other hand, a popular racist slogan intended to sound innocent.

[VelociRapture]

44 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I just wanted to bring @VelociRapture's photo to the new thread because it made me laugh so hard.

Thanks! I consider this some of my finest work. 

[miss_batson]

Lawson did IG live while Josie was cutting his hair in hairsalon. The good thing is we know Josie got back to work after honeymoon, a Lawson is stil egoistic duch. 

[Melissa1977]

Where are  Josie and the Creepy living? 

[formergothardite]

10 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

and while of course it's not bad that they're white*, being white is a big part of why they're privileged (as it is for me too).

*Did anyone actually say otherwise? "

I did not criticize them for being white. I did say they lived in a bubble of white evangelical privilege and until they get out of that and see how their beliefs impact others I really doubt they will change. They will just put more mainstream clothing on their hateful and hurtful beliefs. 

I'm glad she went back to work, I hope she continues even after she has a baby. And we all know that she will probably be pregnant very soon. 

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I hope she continues even after she has a baby.

I hope she does what's best for the baby.

 

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

and until they get out of that and see how their beliefs impact others I really doubt they will change.

They can see how their beliefs impact others while they are right smack inside their bubble. Evangelical beliefs don't just hurt minorities.

Look down the street, Josie, and you'll see a white family with 12 kids living on one income, in a trailer, with a harassed and unhappy (white) mother and a (white) father who's never home.

Look in the other direction, Josie, and you'll see a (white) husband who screams curses at his (white) wife -- their church, which advises her to submit more, and implies it is her fault.

Go inside the church and hear about the (white) mom who had an eptopic pregnancy and died, because she was told that getting help meant she'd be getting an abortion.

Listen to the screams of the (white) toddlers being hit by industrial glue sticks because they wiggled in church.

I don't think Josie needs to leave her white bubble to see the damage. I think she can see (or not see) the damage right now, if she wants to. Being hit by plumbing line hurts, whether your skin is white or black.

 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

15 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

*Did anyone actually say otherwise? "It's okay to be white" is, on the other hand, a popular racist slogan intended to sound innocent. 

I'll pass on this method for refocusing people who find acknowledging their privilege very uncomfortable:

 

"It's not a bad thing to have privilege [be white, be Christian, etc.] Just use your privilege for good."

[Rachel333]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I did not criticize them for being white. I did say they lived in a bubble of white evangelical privilege and until they get out of that and see how their beliefs impact others I really doubt they will change. They will just put more mainstream clothing on their hateful and hurtful beliefs. 

I'm glad she went back to work, I hope she continues even after she has a baby. And we all know that she will probably be pregnant very soon. 

Yeah, it's ridiculous that people interpret "white people have privilege" as an attack on white people.

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

Yeah, it's ridiculous that people interpret "white people have privilege" as an attack on white people.

White people absolutely have privilege. 

Evangelicals, however, are not only white. The harm of religious evangelicalism affects people of all colors.

Does it matter that dark-skinned people suffer because of religious evangelicalists? I think it does absolutely.

Why focus on just the white people it hurts? There are African-American children out there getting shamed and beaten also.

As I said before, it doesn't matter what color your skin is when you are being hit with a glue stick or PVC pipe. It just the same exact amount, and those children need help in exactly the same way.

 

[nausicaa]

4 minutes ago, Hisey said:

White people absolutely have privilege. 

Evangelicals, however, are not only white. The harm of religious evangelicalism affects people of all colors.

Does it matter that dark-skinned people suffer because of religious evangelicalists? I think it does absolutely.

Why focus on just the white people it hurts? There are African-American children out there getting shamed and beaten also.

As I said before, it doesn't matter what color your skin is when you are being hit with a glue stick or PVC pipe. It just the same exact amount, and those children need help in exactly the same way.

Right, but @formergothardite said "white evangelical privilege" to specify that white people who follow evangelical Christianity have a certain privilege because of their race, their religion, and also their religious subculture due to their race. 

It would be like saying an Irish-American who lives in Boston has a level of "white Catholic privilege" due to being a member of the accepted and predominant racial as well as religious groups. A Catholic Mexican-American would likely have a different experience there, despite also being Catholic. 

No one said that it doesn't matter that dark-skinned people suffer because of religious evangelicals. I really don't know where you are getting this from. The focus was on the vectors of privilege that Josie and Kelton have because of their demographics and how that may allow them to stay in a bubble. 

[formergothardite]

I was speaking specifically of the Bates and how they live in bubble of white evangelical privilege. That doesn't mean that all white people are evangelicals or all evangelicals are white, just that the Bates live in an area that is heavily skewed to being white and evangelical and that they keep themselves even more inside a bubble by mostly associating with people who not only won't challenge them in anyway, but will lend support to the idea that everything they are doing and believing is the best and the One True Way. 

If Josie even sees that white family living in a trailer with 12 kids she probably isn't going to view that as being terrible because her whole life has been normalizing having tons of children no matter if the parents can care for them or even spend a lot of time with them. 

If she sees the husband who curses at his wife and the church tells her to submit more, that again has been normalized for her. She has been raised with IBLP and there is no way she didn't study the pages that teach that even children are to blame if they are abused, so women certainly are to be blamed. 

The woman who died because of an ectopic pregnancy will be held up as a fucking martyr because she might have died but at least she isn't a baby killer. 

Josie was raised with a mother who, when she wasn't handing off her newborns to another child, was training them using harsh baby training methods, she has been normalized to the idea that good parents abuse and  neglect their children. 

Yes, abuse is rampant in their white evangelical bubble, but until they get outside of it, they probably aren't going to see those things as being abusive. And as long as they are staying sheltered from having to be with people who truly challenge them and show them how their actions hurt others and even that the actions they view as normal are abusive, they probably aren't going to see it. 

Like I said earlier, I'm sure that there is at least a couple of the Bates and Duggar kids who can live inside that bubble and see it isn't okay, but I think most of them are content with living their fairly privileged lives, trying to use the government to oppress people not like them and never, ever having to think about how their beliefs impact others. 

[ModestisHottest]

Just wanted to add this to the previous discussion.  I live in Mississippi and people ask where you go to church all.the.time. (I'm originally from Pennsylvania so that definitely has taken some getting used to.)

[nausicaa]

11 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Like I said earlier, I'm sure that there is at least a couple of the Bates and Duggar kids who can live inside that bubble and see it isn't okay, but I think most of them are content with living their fairly privileged lives, trying to use the government to oppress people not like them and never, ever having to think about how their beliefs impact others. 

Also, in their area, being evangelical is shorthand for "being a good person." As others have said about regions of the South where you are asked where you go to church, being the "right religion" and the right amount of religious often covers up  a multitude of other sins and assumes a lot of things in your favor. Being non-religious or non-Christian immediately gives you a steeper path in terms of getting people to trust you.

I think this is one of the biggest privileges to being evangelical. I see it even where I live, which is much more religiously diverse and less religious overall. The right church affiliation even boosts your career and dating prospects.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

Yes, it isn't "just making small talk." Crazy weather we're having is small talk. It's strongly implying a moral, decent default of attending church as the way to be with lots of moral judgement for failure to attend church. Non-religious, secular people exist, and we are as much as 20% of the population. No need to look at us as having two heads. People who attend synagogues and mosques exist and have the right to be recognized rather than marginalized. 

[HarleyQuinn]

On 10/23/2018 at 8:51 PM, ModestisHottest said:

Just wanted to add this to the previous discussion.  I live in Mississippi and people ask where you go to church all.the.time. (I'm originally from Pennsylvania so that definitely has taken some getting used to.)

That's such a strange thing. I'm from the upper Midwest, which is pretty Christian but I still don't think I've ever been asked that unless there was a lead in statement. (I have confirmation tonight) 

[QuiverDance]

Well, honey, you cannot get more "Southern" US than I am.  I was literally raised right on the Gulf of Mexico, and the "Where y'all go to church?" thing is completely beyond the pale to me.  I think it's kind of a Baptist/Church of Christ thing.  At least that is my impression, judging by who's asking the question.  

 

[miss_batson]

Josie is shopping to decorate her house. 

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, miss_batson said:

Josie is shopping to decorate her house. 

A stylist? I wonder if this is to be taped for the show?

URGGGGh I can't tell you how I am not a fan of fake plants.  Bloody dust collecting junk in my opinion. I prefer a real plant 

How many young couples can just go and do up a house all new. So many people start out with every random family member's hand me downs. 
I wonder if they know how "blessed" they are?

[Calypso]

The Bates' way of decorating is so foreign to me. They always have a style for the house and a whole bunch of kitschy decorations that change every year or so. Erin's home decorations have changed how many times? And they always have a theme that everything must fit into. Is this a fundy thing? Or a cultural thing that I havent been exposed to? Because the closest I come to decorating like that is rearranging stuff that I already have. And theres no way that my pictures or furniture could fit into a unified theme because they were collected over time and either have sentimental value or were a one off item that I liked.

[AussieKrissy]

33 minutes ago, Calypso said:

The Bates' way of decorating is so foreign to me. They always have a style for the house and a whole bunch of kitschy decorations that change every year or so. Erin's home decorations have changed how many times? And they always have a theme that everything must fit into. Is this a fundy thing? Or a cultural thing that I havent been exposed to? Because the closest I come to decorating like that is rearranging stuff that I already have. And theres no way that my pictures or furniture could fit into a unified theme because they were collected over time and either have sentimental value or were a one off item that I liked.

could not agree more, this is so me. 

[freethemall]

10 hours ago, Calypso said:

The Bates' way of decorating is so foreign to me. They always have a style for the house and a whole bunch of kitschy decorations that change every year or so. Erin's home decorations have changed how many times? And they always have a theme that everything must fit into. Is this a fundy thing? Or a cultural thing that I havent been exposed to? Because the closest I come to decorating like that is rearranging stuff that I already have. And theres no way that my pictures or furniture could fit into a unified theme because they were collected over time and either have sentimental value or were a one off item that I liked.

Hm, this isn't as foreign to me. I've always had general style themes for my rooms, right now the overall theme is "classy hippy". I also have a Dutch themed guest room with various blue/white knick knacks. I've always loved thrift stores and getting little items from them. I do change things up sometimes, but definitely not to the point of Erin with repainting and totally changing things. But then, I've lived in many places since I was 18 and have had more time to experiment with my style and decorating. I can only imagine when this is the first time you've lived outside your parents and have your own space and want to personalize it.