Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[miss_batson]

Spoiler

 

 

[Palimpsest]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:56 AM, LillyP said:

That being said, Josie is basically the only one who showed any sort of initiative to have a "real" job. Going to cosmetology school and working in a salon is not something we've seen before. Sure, Erin taught piano (from home!) and Alyssa worked in a flower shop (if I'm not mistaken wasn't it owned by an aunt?). None of those were long-term career goals, more something to pass the time until they got married. Josie is the only one who actually went and got a useful education that provides money.

Hmm.  Now that is not true.  Some of her sisters have more education and better earning potential than Josie.  Even if they came from Clown College, Erin and Tori have bachelor's degrees in music and elementary education, respectively.  Probably Michael would have a degree already if she hadn't had to work harder than the others as a sister mom.

With their education Erin, Tori and Michael could all go back to work if necessary.  Carlin may get her degree, so only Alyssa might have problems.  But she could keep cleaning offices.

Michael Bates: 

• licensed EMT.
• worked as a nanny
• and after marriage taking online classes from Roane State (accredited), where she's getting a degree in liberal arts with a minor in health science.

Erin Bates:

• graduated magna cum laude with a BA in music ministry, Crown College of the Bible.
• was awarded the Brad Askew Award for Music Ministry.
• released 4 different albums.
• peripatetic music teacher.
• pianist at many weddings. 
• Now full time mom of 3

Alyssa Bates:

• College drop-out
• Part-time florist.  
• Political activist - worked on Taliban Dan's campaign.
• Now full time mom of 3 and cleans offices.

Tori Bates:

• Reputed part time job.
• graduated magna cum laude with Bachelors of Science in Elementary Education, Crown College of the Bible.
• New mother.

Carlin Bates:

• attending Crown College of the Bible for BA in Music.
• member of Crown College choir.

Josie Bates:

• Licensed cosmetologist (2 year trade certification and Bible study from Crown College)
• works at hair salon - or did until she got married.

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Hmm.  Now that is not true.  Some of her sisters have more education and better earning potential than Josie.  Even if they came from Clown College, Erin and Tori have bachelor's degrees in music and elementary education, respectively.  Probably Michael would have a degree already if she hadn't had to work harder than the others as a sister mom.

With their education Erin, Tori and Michael could all go back to work if necessary.  Carlin may get her degree, so only Alyssa might have problems.  But she could keep cleaning offices.

Michael Bates: 

• licensed EMT.
• worked as a nanny
• and after marriage taking online classes from Roane State (accredited), where she's getting a degree in liberal arts with a minor in health science.

Erin Bates:

• graduated magna cum laude with a BA in music ministry, Crown College of the Bible.
• was awarded the Brad Askew Award for Music Ministry.
• released 4 different albums.
• peripatetic music teacher.
• pianist at many weddings. 
• Now full time mom of 3

Alyssa Bates:

• College drop-out
• Part-time florist.  
• Political activist - worked on Taliban Dan's campaign.
• Now full time mom of 3 and cleans offices.

Tori Bates:

• Reputed part time job.
• graduated magna cum laude with Bachelors of Science in Elementary Education, Crown College of the Bible.
• New mother.

Carlin Bates:

• attending Crown College of the Bible for BA in Music.
• member of Crown College choir.

Josie Bates:

• Licensed cosmetologist (2 year trade certification and Bible study from Crown College)
• works at hair salon - or did until she got married.

 

Brief edit - Michael actually graduated in the spring of 2016.  She also sells items she sews herself through the website she and Brandon have. That seems more of a hobby then a part or full time job, but it probably brings in a little money at least and it’s definitely a useful skill she could turn into a side job if she ever wants or needs to. 

[Palimpsest]

30 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Brief edit - Michael actually graduated in the spring of 2016.

Oh, thanks. I missed that.  Well, good for Michael!  She has an actual degree from an accredited college then.  Better than all the others.

I was just shocked at the idea of Josie being the only one who got an education and could work.  Nothing wrong with learning a trade, but even cosmetologists need to keep up on the latest fashions and techniques.  Erin probably has the best future earning power as I look at it.

And I would prefer a hairdresser that does not have a licence in both hairdressing and Bible Studies from Clown.  It probably means that Josie can proselytise while she perms, witnesses as she weaves, and converts as she cuts ... 

[VelociRapture]

8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Oh, thanks. I missed that.  Well, good for Michael!  She has an actual degree from an accredited college then.  Better than all the others.

I was just shocked at the idea of Josie being the only one who got an education and could work.  Nothing wrong with learning a trade, but even cosmetologists need to keep up on the latest fashions and techniques.  Erin probably has the best future warning power as I look at it.

And I would prefer a hairdresser that does not have a licence in both hairdressing and Bible Studies from Clown.  It probably means that Josie can proselytise while she perms, witnesses as she weaves, and converts as she cuts ... 

I’m finding this way funnier than I probably should. 

A second minor edit - I believe Josie is still at the salon at the moment. She has a second Instagram account for her work and she added a new post on November 16th:

She doesn’t seem to use that account much, so it’s possible that she has since left.

But yeah, I do agree with you. Josie definitely isn’t the only Bates daughter to earn an education or show some earning potential. 

[marmalade]

It should also be noted that Carlin has since transferred to Liberty, where she will earn a degree in general education. I guess she couldn't complete a music degree online?

[HarleyQuinn]

Busting out the pants for the inlaws.  

[LillyP]

I wasn't trying to say that Josie had the most education, I said she seems to have the most initiative to have a "real" job outside the house. Aside from Erin who teaches piano (or does she still?) and makes albums none of the others, despite their degrees, seem to be doing anything after marriage other than waiting for that first baby. I take that back, Alyssa did hustle with the cleaning business for a while but now with 3 kids is she even still doing it? I could see Carlin *maybe* being a Choir director because she loves to be the center of attention, but even that might be a stretch once she has kids. Who knows, Josie might become a mom and quit hair altogether....but for now it appears that she's still doing it and enjoys it. Michael has turned her sewing hobby into a (probably not legal) side gig. None of those are careers, they're just jobs. But that's just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation. 

[formergothardite]

12 minutes ago, LillyP said:

I take that back, Alyssa did hustle with the cleaning business for a while but now with 3 kids is she even still doing it?

From what I remember she has mentioned it or mentioned John watching the kids while she worked.

Alyssa wanted out of that house fast and wasn't going to wait till she got a degree. But she still seems to work and cleaners can make money. I have a friend who cleans houses part time and she makes a good bit of money. Sure some people don't view that as a real job but she likes it, helps pay the bills and if she wanted she could expand it to full time and probably even hire employees. 

It will be interesting to see what Josie does after she inevitable starts having baby after baby. 

[Flossie]

Cleaning can be a well paying job, if you are fast, reliable, and discreet.  You also have to understand what your services are worth and charge accordingly.

One of my ex in-laws was raised by a mother who started cleaning houses once her kids got into school.  Her husband worked, but his job wasn't enough for the extras they wanted.  Over time, she had too many clients, hired help, and ended up with a thriving business.  

[lumpentheologie]

19 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Some of her sisters have more education and better earning potential than Josie.  Even if they came from Clown College, Erin and Tori have bachelor's degrees in music and elementary education, respectively.

I only have a pretty vague idea of what elementary school teachers and piano teachers make, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to make more money doing hair.  When I cut hair (in a small town in a rural state) I was pretty routinely making $60-80/hr. And a fair portion of that was in cash, especially tips. You just have to work in a busy shop. Hair is a great way to be able to make pretty good money with about a year of training--I was making that money at 19. 

[Audrey2]

Elementary school teachers salary varies state by state and district by district. Since Torie's degree is from Crown, I'm guessing she'd teach in a private Christian school (if she teaches outside her home with her degree), and private Christian schools (and Catholic schools, too) are known for low salaries. I'm not sure on a figure, though.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Sure some people don't view that as a real job

Not to go off on a tangent, but this just blows my mind. Why on earth would anyone not consider that a 'real job'? Our society is totally sick when it comes to this. We have to stop holding people to these absolutely insane arbitrary standards of what 'real work' is! (Not directed toward you, of course!)

[OyToTheVey]

14 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

Elementary school teachers salary varies state by state and district by district. Since Torie's degree is from Crown, I'm guessing she'd teach in a private Christian school (if she teaches outside her home with her degree), and private Christian schools (and Catholic schools, too) are known for low salaries. I'm not sure on a figure, though.

With new laws in NYS, Tori isn't eligible to teach in a public school here. Most entry level teachers have Masters degrees. Although, I'm not actually sure if it's the whole state or just NYC. Most teachers I know had to go back to grad school to take classes. 

[VelociRapture]

Yes, @formergotharditeis correct. I believe there was a bit on the show where Alyssa and John were shown juggling parenting responsibilities - he came home from his main job to take over and Alyssa was leaving to clean offices. Alyssa also mentioned cleaning offices in an Instagram Story recently (I think this was before her account was hacked.) It was one of those sponsored content things (that she didn’t properly label) for a company that puts together meal kits for kids or something. They have an Instagram account for their cleaning business - Johnny on the Spot - but it hasn’t been used since sometime in 2017. I’m guessing they just don’t have the time or interest in using that account. 

And while I seriously doubt Tori will ever step foot into an actual classroom, I do think her choice of Elementary Education was a decent one considering they likely plan to homeschool their kids. She’ll at least have some concept of lesson planning and “classroom” management. If they opt for a decent homeschool curriculum then their kids could end up with a halfway decent education, but that’s a big “if.” And should she ever have to work she could likely find something in a private Christian school, though it probably wouldn’t pay much. 

Michael already has a degree from an accredited school and Carlin will too once she finishes her degree from Liberty this spring. We don’t know very much of what Michael does on a daily basis because she’s more private than most of her siblings, so it’s possible she has things other than her sewing to keep her busy. I wouldn’t be surprised if she babysits for other IBLP families for instance. I think that Carlin has been mentioned as wanting to teach music lessons - I have no clue if she actually will, but that could be a decent way for her to contribute financially if she wants or needs to. There’s also the possibility of yet another Bates child selling a CD or Carlin may end up performing with Evan’s family (if they even still do that.) Michael and Carlin having degrees from accredited schools could prove useful in obtaining some form of employment should they ever want or need to though. 

I don’t know whether Erin still teaches piano or not. She had to stop during her pregnancy with Carson because she had pretty bad morning sickness, but she went back to it sometime after and she was still teaching when Brooklyn was a baby. That easily could have changed by now though. She seems pretty frazzled with her three kids as it is*, so I would guess there’s a good chance she either has already stopped or will stop soon. She does have the option of returning to teaching lessons though - she could teach out of her house and take on a small number of students to make it more manageable. She could also see about releasing another album as well. In fact, based off this comment she might end up recording another album:

Alyssa, Josie, and Whitney** have all done that sponsored content stuff on Instagram as well. It may or may not pay in actual money, but they likely get something out of it in return. 

As for Josie, I’ll point out that we have no clue how often she actually works. She seems to have a genuine interest in her field, so if that’s the case then I would hope that she’s working regularly - but we really don’t know. And we also have no clue whether she’ll want to continue working once the babies start to arrive either. Josie has the potential to earn an income, but that doesn’t mean she’ll continue to utilize her skills that way after marriage/motherhood. Same as all the others. 

(And not everyone wants or needs a career by the way. I agree completely with @singsingsing that there’s a big problem with society - at least American society - looking down on certain fields of employment, as well as looking down on stay at home spouses and parents.)

*And to be clear, there’s nothing wrong with her being frazzled with three kids. I only have one toddler and I get frazzled sometimes - so I’d guess being a bit overwhelmed with three would be kind of normal. 

**Whit isn’t a biological daughter so I didn’t discuss her. She’s definitely setup to be the best off of the Bates women so far though - she has an Associate’s from an accredited school and she’s been working part-time as a realtor since the Fall of 2017. She could probably support herself and her two kids if she ever had to. 

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Not to go off on a tangent, but this just blows my mind. Why on earth would anyone not consider that a 'real job'? Our society is totally sick when it comes to this. We have to stop holding people to these absolutely insane arbitrary standards of what 'real work' is! (Not directed toward you, of course!)

When I was in college I worked at a daycare and had people asking when I was getting a "real job". At one point I said well as long as it pays me real money I'll keep this fake job. The implication was that working with small children wasn't an actual career, which is rather sad. Alyssa didn't go to college but she does work and have a job just as much as Josie. 

[squiddysquid]

22 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Hmm.  Now that is not true.  Some of her sisters have more education and better earning potential than Josie.  Even if they came from Clown College, Erin and Tori have bachelor's degrees in music and elementary education, respectively.  Probably Michael would have a degree already if she hadn't had to work harder than the others as a sister mom.

With their education Erin, Tori and Michael could all go back to work if necessary.  Carlin may get her degree, so only Alyssa might have problems.  But she could keep cleaning offices.

Michael Bates: 

• licensed EMT.
• worked as a nanny
• and after marriage taking online classes from Roane State (accredited), where she's getting a degree in liberal arts with a minor in health science.

Erin Bates:

• graduated magna cum laude with a BA in music ministry, Crown College of the Bible.
• was awarded the Brad Askew Award for Music Ministry.
• released 4 different albums.
• peripatetic music teacher.
• pianist at many weddings. 
• Now full time mom of 3

Alyssa Bates:

• College drop-out
• Part-time florist.  
• Political activist - worked on Taliban Dan's campaign.
• Now full time mom of 3 and cleans offices.

Tori Bates:

• Reputed part time job.
• graduated magna cum laude with Bachelors of Science in Elementary Education, Crown College of the Bible.
• New mother.

Carlin Bates:

• attending Crown College of the Bible for BA in Music.
• member of Crown College choir.

Josie Bates:

• Licensed cosmetologist (2 year trade certification and Bible study from Crown College)
• works at hair salon - or did until she got married.

 

Carlin dropped out of Crown and is doing some online classes that don't really fit together,

They call it a "interdisciplinary BA" but it's more like a BA of random subjects/Misses degree.

[Jigsaw3]

I believe Michael nannied before she married -- as in, took care of unrelated kids for money, not just being used by Kelly for all the heavy lifting. I would not be surprised if she is still doing significant amounts of paid childcare. Erin posted about recitals for her students before Everly was born, but hasn't since; she may no longer be teaching or be taking a year off. Josie was cutting hair for a while. But it's important to remember that what we see on social media is never the whole story: it's what they want us to believe. The Bates are masters at projecting the images they want to maintain. If something doesn't square with that image, we won't see it.

I heartily support any woman learning or doing something that will make her self-sufficient. Due to that, I support the Bates daughters who are getting paid influencer gigs on social media (even though I'll roll my eyes.) The more earning power they have, the better.

[squiddysquid]

Just checked - Michael still has her online store where she sells blankets and other baby stuff.

http://brandonandmichaela.com/product/stockings/

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, squiddysquid said:

Just checked - Michael still has her online store where she sells blankets and other baby stuff.

http://brandonandmichaela.com/product/stockings/

if that's her store settles the name confusion.  Michaela it is.

[HereticHick]

I find it sad that so many jobs dis proportionally done by women are still sneered at as "just jobs" and therefore somehow lacking--by other women.

 

[just_ordinary]

I agree. As long as women are their own worst enemy we can fight patriarchal structures as long as we want- there will not be equality. 

For example: In my experience more women bitch about their female superior than men. Women are way more vocal talking about the looks or gossip about other women. And I am definitely guilty of this too. (Talking about some serious New Years goals in my part here.)

If you get paid - you have a real job. Raising children or housekeeping are real jobs because Nannies and cooks and cleaners normally get paid. It might not be a „career“ but they are jobs and they are important. Sadly it’s often the jobs that are most important for society that get overlooked, belittled and underpaid. Nurses, teachers, cleaners and so on. And yes, even more so when women are the majority of employees. But how do we want to get the change when even women fall into the language of „those little jobs/ not real jobs“?

[SassyPants]

IMO, people often make distinctions between careers and jobs. Generally speaking, more respect seems to be given to careers that involve education, licensing etc...something that speaks to a person having to prove that they have the demonstrated  skills, knowledge and experiences to perform. These positions generally command a greater salary. I also think that since the last recession, careers, no matter who populations those positions, are no longer quite looked down upon. Anyone tried to get into nursing school these days? Very, very difficult-

[Granwych]

On 12/28/2018 at 12:55 PM, SassyPants said:

IMO, people often make distinctions between careers and jobs. Generally speaking, more respect seems to be given to careers that involve education, licensing etc...something that speaks to a person having to prove that they have the demonstrated  skills, knowledge and experiences to perform. These positions generally command a greater salary. I also think that since the last recession, careers, no matter who populations those positions, are no longer quite looked down upon. Anyone tried to get into nursing school these days? Very, very difficult-

One big reason that it's so hard to get into nursing school is that there aren't that many schools.   Used to be that many hospitals ran their own nursing schools (all that free labor!)   Plus, there aren't enough instructors due to low pay.

 

 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Granwych said:

One big reason that it's so hard to get into nursing school is that there aren't that many schools.   Used to be that many hospitals ran their own nursing schools (all that free labor!)   Plus, there aren't enough instructors due to low pay.

 

 

I always thought I’d like to teach in a nursing program, but not for more required Ed and less pay.