Lina's back!!!!

[Beeks]

Wait...Wait..Wait!

Lina wrote this "Every month when I become a niddah, my husband and I separate for a total of 12-14 days (depending on the length of bleeding). We observe the laws of harchakot during this time which means we avoid touching each other, even going so far as to setting items down on a surface rather than passing them directly to each other."

They have only been married a few weeks!!!

Well...I shouldn't be surprised that she acts like a marriage expert after two weeks when she was acting like one before she even had a boyfriend. But every month? They haven't even been married a month.

This is interesting. Lina writes things that she hopes or wishes would happen as if they are/have already taken place. Maybe that's partly why she claims to be Jewish when she's had no conversion whatsoever.

[Sarah]

As an Orthodox Jew, this is a *very* interesting thread to read! I just had a few comments to add:

First, the issue of believing in Jesus and being Jewish goes much deeper than differing opinions on when the Messiah arrived. If you look at the 13 principle of faith outlined my Maimonides, believing in Jesus as your savior contradicts with multiple principles of faith, not just one. The concept that G-d can have a child who is a physical being, the concept that you can pray to other figures besides just G-d himself, the concept of original sin, the concept that people *need* a Savior to die for their sins to attain Salvation, the concept that eternal life is predicated on belief v. action.......ALL of these concepts that are crucial to a Christian belief in Jesus are not compatible with Judaism at all. It is simply not possible to combine the two faiths, no matter how similar they may seem on the outside.

Second, in response to the prayer regrading not being made a woman--that is specifically in reference to the number of commandments men and women are obligated in. That prayer simply emphasizes that men are obligated in more commandments than women. Women are exempt from positive time-bound commandments because chidlcare generally makes it difficult to do specific things at specific times! I realize how this can seem on the outside (and as someone who didn't grow up religious, I was VERY incensed by this in the beginning!) but as a soon-to-be mother I appreciate that in this area at least, Judaism doesn't ask me to balance motherhood and other obligations, but simply to focus on spending time with my baby and engaging in the religious expressions that are most meaningful to me. Also, in many Orthodox communities including my own, men are really involved in childcare. Our synagogue has an early service so that couples can switch off in attending prayers, and my husband is just as involved in housework/food shopping/cooking/etc as I am.

Sorry for the novel:)

[Beeks]

Hi Sarah, thanks for your input, very interesting!

I don't think Lina believes most of those things about Jesus. She seems to think he was the JEWISH messiah (so she doesn't look at him the way Christians do - as a god, somebody who died for her sins, etc). Still, seeing as Jesus didn't fulfill any of the requirements for the Jewish messiah, I don't understand how she meshes her beliefs.

As to not being made a woman....ok? That doesn't make sense to me. I'm a Jewish woman and yay for not being bound by time-specific commandments, but why does a man have to thank God that he's NOT a woman? Shouldn't we instead be thanking God that we ARE women? Why doesn't everybody just thank God that they are who they are?

[Sarah]

Hi Beeks,

I think the point of the prayer is to just be thankful for the commandments that they are obligated in, even though they can be challenging to observe sometimes. As for why it was worded the specific way it is, that probably depends on the specific time and place that piece of the liturgy was written, I imagine.

[LIzzieB]

I'd like to say thanks to Beeks, FaustianSlip and the other Jewish folks on this board for educating me a bit more on Judaism, both Reformed and Orthodox, and the process of conversion. Thanks for being so open and willing to discuss your beliefs and experiences. We have a very small Jewish population in my town and so I really don't know much about it all. I've recently discovered some Jewish heritage in the family tree and it's interesting to know more about what those ancestors may have believed and practised.

So, cheers Lina, for starting some really interesting discussions! :lol:

[pomology]

I, too, am enjoying this thread but I wish I could find a pronunciation guide.

For instance, the way my brain reads "Lashon Hora" makes me think of a transvestite prostitute.

The Hebrew pronunciation of the term (which is different than the Yiddish pronunciation which they are trying to replicate in the spelling and I'm less sure how exactly that would be pronounced) would be la (like in tra la la) shone (as in the past tense of shine) ha (like laughter) ra (like the Egyptian god, or if that is too blasphemous for me to allude to as in rah! rah! rah!)

[TheJewAmongUs]

Having read back through Lina's blog, one early impression I got is that she's discovering things as she goes a then diving in head first.* I also agree with the assessment that she comes off as arrogant and a little condescending in her posts. I am willing to attribute a lot of that to insecurity, but at the same time, I'm not going to withhold snark if she keeps putting it out there...

I guess AJ hasn't introduced her to the liturgy yet that explains the specific things the messiah is support to do. Maybe if/when she gets there she'll dive in head first there too.

*And by the way, I was raised Jewish, but didn't really know a lot until I was 8 or 9, and even then I was discovering things as I went. I'm not trying to say you can't practice Judaism before you know "everything," I'm just saying a little less self-righteous preachiness would be the honey that catches more flies.

[TheJewAmongUs]

לשון הרע

I would probably say "Le Shawn Hara" in casual conversation, but "Le Shown Ha-RAH" if I were talking to Hebrew speakers. Just like I say "Yum Kipper" unless I know I'm speaking to someone who knows it should be "Yohm Kee-poor." (Why would I ever say L'shon Hara, I'm not exactly sure...)

Anyway, I found this audio of the pronunciation:

http://www.forvo.com/word/%D7%9C%D7%A9% ... %A8%D7%A2/

[TheBuddha]

As an Orthodox Jew, this is a *very* interesting thread to read! I just had a few comments to add:

First, the issue of believing in Jesus and being Jewish goes much deeper than differing opinions on when the Messiah arrived. If you look at the 13 principle of faith outlined my Maimonides, believing in Jesus as your savior contradicts with multiple principles of faith, not just one. The concept that G-d can have a child who is a physical being, the concept that you can pray to other figures besides just G-d himself, the concept of original sin, the concept that people *need* a Savior to die for their sins to attain Salvation, the concept that eternal life is predicated on belief v. action.......ALL of these concepts that are crucial to a Christian belief in Jesus are not compatible with Judaism at all. It is simply not possible to combine the two faiths, no matter how similar they may seem on the outside.

Second, in response to the prayer regrading not being made a woman--that is specifically in reference to the number of commandments men and women are obligated in. That prayer simply emphasizes that men are obligated in more commandments than women. Women are exempt from positive time-bound commandments because chidlcare generally makes it difficult to do specific things at specific times! I realize how this can seem on the outside (and as someone who didn't grow up religious, I was VERY incensed by this in the beginning!) but as a soon-to-be mother I appreciate that in this area at least, Judaism doesn't ask me to balance motherhood and other obligations, but simply to focus on spending time with my baby and engaging in the religious expressions that are most meaningful to me. Also, in many Orthodox communities including my own, men are really involved in childcare. Our synagogue has an early service so that couples can switch off in attending prayers, and my husband is just as involved in housework/food shopping/cooking/etc as I am.

Sorry for the novel:)

Okay, but a beilef in Jesus doesnt necessarily contradict rambams 13 principles..

I do understand and aggree that when MOST people say "I bieleve in Jesus as the messiah" they are saying:

"I beileve he is God incarnate"

"I beileve he was fully human too"

"I beileve he was the perfect sacrifice for our sins"

"I beileve he did away with torah"

"I beileve he is the messiah"

There is a difference between being "Wrong" and "Heretical/apostate", the beilefs in red, im sure contradict rambams principles

I mean yes- there is a GREAT deal of baggage associated with Jesus, that isnt associated with other reported messiahs- be it schneerson, khockba, or Shabbatai Tevi. now, anyone who believes that one of ^ is the messiah, would by my estimation be wrong.. HOWEVER, a belief that Jesus is the messiah isnt necessarily a completely new religion...

But yes, I do know that MOST xians believe the stuff in red too, and I dont know the particulars about lina or her belief in Jesus... but in any other case, a rabbi could in good faith allow conversion, depending on the NIT PICKY particulars of their belief....??

not EVERY xian belief- is contradictory to Judaism

not EVERY belief about Jesus- is contradictory to Judaism.. its the specifics of both though,- the sub points, small print- that determines it..

and yes- the small print generally includes normative Christianity as we know it, hence its a fair assumption... but.....

http://youtu.be/bbB_FGwr8ew

[Beeks]

TTs latest:

"The strength in your writing encourages even me, Baby Doll! ;D

I Love you so much!"

LOL, wow. EVEN Tony.

[defrauding]

[Guest Anonymous]

TTs latest:

"The strength in your writing encourages even me, Baby Doll! ;D

I Love you so much!"

LOL, wow. EVEN Tony.

For a woman that doesn't monitor comments to her blog she's keeping a pretty tight lid on it today.

[FaustianSlip]

Lord, he's such a tool.

As far as prayers and the siddur go, Conservative and Orthodox prayers, as has been said, are virtually identicl except in some cases where the language is maded more egalitarian. In Orthodoxy, men say, "Thank you for making me a man," while women say, "Thank you for making me in your image." Sim Shalom, the prayeer book most Consrvative shuls use, just has both genders use the second line. More recent Conservative siddurim also give the reader the option to add the Jewish Matriachs in certain prayers where the Patriarchs are traditionally mentioned. For instance, in the Amidah, you reference "the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Some congregations also add, "G-d of Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah." Weirdly,although I'm pretty fiercely egalitarian in my davening preferences, I never add the Matriarchs on my own and always find it a little jarring when I'm with a congregation that does. Don't know why- guess it's just because I didn't learn the prayers that way.

Also, because the prayers are so similar between Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, it's not at all uncommon to spot people using a variety of siddurim in services. For instance, at Rosh Hashanah services last week, I saw people using machzorim (a special prayer book for the High Holy Days) from all over lthe place. There were two different Conservative versions (I just got the new one- Lev Shalem, it's called, and it's great, incidentally), Artscroll, Koren, random, older ones I didn't recognize... lots of variety. And since the prayers are virtually identical, it's not tough to use whichever siddur you prefer. I have a couple of different siddurim that I daven from at home- Sim Shalom, because it's what I'm most used to, Koren Sacks, which is a Modern Orthodox siddur with great, easy to read fonts and a nice layout, and I own a couple of Artscroll ones that I don't really use anymore, because they're too Haredi for my taste. I'm a total siddur geek, though.

[Katiebug]

Some apartment buildings with lots of Orthodox Jews put the elevator in "Shabbat mode." The elevator stops at every floor on the way up and every floor on the way down. It takes forever, but it doesn't require pushing any buttons.

There are sometimes issues with newer elevators that operate in Shabbat/Sabboth mode because the electric drives can be regenerative (saves on building power consumption). Apparently this is a form of prohibited work and therefore regen braking/regen drives have to be disabled for Shabbat as well. The regen issue was not something that anyone thought about until the last decade or so. It's also pretty wasteful of energy to have an elevator operating in Shabbat mode; often only one elevator will be set up to operate that way rather than all of them, and the rest are kept in normal service.

I know way too much about elevators.

[Kate]

TTs latest:

"The strength in your writing encourages even me, Baby Doll! ;D

I Love you so much!"

LOL, wow. EVEN Tony.

'Cause it's not like they live together an he could just open his pie hole and *tell* her what he thinks. Must post and not miss a single opportunity to let the world know his every wisdom filled thought.

Jerk

[pomology]

Ha. I could actually seem them doing that.

[bionicmlle]

The Hebrew pronunciation of the term (which is different than the Yiddish pronunciation which they are trying to replicate in the spelling and I'm less sure how exactly that would be pronounced) would be la (like in tra la la) shone (as in the past tense of shine) ha (like laughter) ra (like the Egyptian god, or if that is too blasphemous for me to allude to as in rah! rah! rah!)

Thank you!! That's much better than LaShawn Whora (transvestite executive!)

[onlyorganic]

I was thinking that now she's trying to mix Judaism with A Visit From St. Nicholas!

I started crying when I read this. Tears of joy. Because I was envisioning the same thing. Actually, it was more of a floppy version of Mickey's hat in "The Sorcerer's Apprentice."

[duplessis3]

Can someone explain to me clearly how you can believe Jesus is the Messiah and be Jewish, but not be a Messianic Jew? That's what Lina said, and I wanted to say, Honey you can say you are a duck but that doesn't make you a duck. I'm really missing the distinction.

[Guest Anonymous]

Can someone explain to me clearly how you can believe Jesus is the Messiah and be Jewish, but not be a Messianic Jew? That's what Lina said, and I wanted to say, Honey you can say you are a duck but that doesn't make you a duck. I'm really missing the distinction.

I commented using the lipstick on a pig analogy...I can't imagine why she didn't post it :think:

[pomology]

Thank you!! That's much better than LaShawn Whora (transvestite executive!)

No problem. But to be fare LaShawn Whora is hilarious and I am immensely glad you brought it to my attention.

[Angri-la]

I find Lina and TT fascinating. The Young and The Religiously Insane always interest me. I've said it before, and I will say it again: I thank her for inspiring this fantastic thread. To those of us with little exposure to the Jewish faith, as my Jewish friends are decidedly NOT practicing, save for a sabbat here and there, this has been a wonderful education.

I think whomever had the idea upthread to have "ask a___" threads is an excellent idea. We have Christians, Catholics, fundie lites, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Mormons, Ex-everythings (I hope we have an ex-Scientologist in our midst) and a Wiccan or two; I would love to have further dialogue on other faiths, absence of faith. This is what makes FJ so much more than a snark site!

My "ask a Jew" question: What, exactly, does "Frum" mean? Is Lina trying to be it?

[pomology]

I find Lina and TT fascinating. The Young and The Religiously Insane always interest me. I've said it before, and I will say it again: I thank her for inspiring this fantastic thread. To those of us with little exposure to the Jewish faith, as my Jewish friends are decidedly NOT practicing, save for a sabbat here and there, this has been a wonderful education.

I think whomever had the idea upthread to have "ask a___" threads is an excellent idea. We have Christians, Catholics, fundie lites, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Mormons, Ex-everythings (I hope we have an ex-Scientologist in our midst) and a Wiccan or two; I would love to have further dialogue on other faiths, absence of faith. This is what makes FJ so much more than a snark site!

My "ask a Jew" question: What, exactly, does "Frum" mean? Is Lina trying to be it?

Frum is the Yiddish term for religiously observant. Basically the polar opposite of secularized Jews. I guess Lina is trying to be frum, but that sounds so strange.

[TheJewAmongUs]

I commented using the lipstick on a pig analogy...I can't imagine why she didn't post it :think:

Oy Hashem! That lipstick is no longer kashrut! :pray:

[FaustianSlip]

Frum is the Yiddish term for religiously observant. Basically the polar opposite of secularized Jews. I guess Lina is trying to be frum, but that sounds so strange.

Sort of like when I read something about tge "orthodox Messianic" congregation with which she's involved. Sounds completely bizarre to me.

Incidentally, I just had a very nice old lady try to convert me (back) to Christianity. On Erev Yom Kippur. :doh:

She said she was Jewish; might have been, but it was pretty clear that she didn't know what day it was. Maybe I should've put the shoe on the other foot and invited her to Kol Nidre!