Josie and Kelton 1: Here We Go Again

[mydoggoskeeper]

49 minutes ago, PurpleCats said:

While I am no fan of 45 or his policies, I’m trying really hard to not judge their decision to vote for him. They voted for the candidate that gave them the best chance at another ‘conservative’ Supreme Court Justice.  I can’t expect people that so passionately dislike legal abortion to vote any other way. 

Now, if they had passionately lobbied for his policies after the election and after he continues to (from my perspective) create chaos, I could dislike them more for their political choices.  Also, no matter how many of them voted or did not vote in Tennessee, it was still going to go red. 

On the long drive to visit my parents, both of whom voted for Trump for primarily SCOTUS pick reasons, I thought a lot about this.   They truly believe abortion is murder.  I get that and why they would want to support a pro-life candidate.   But at what point is that myopic focus on a single issue outweighed by other issues.   Clearly there has to be a point (speaking in the case of my parents), but apparently, candidate Trump didn't tip those scales.    I was tempted to ask but for the sake of family harmony didn't.    Abolish the tax exemption for churches? Atheist candidate?  Resegregate?  Institute sharia law?

 

 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, PurpleCats said:

They voted for the candidate that gave them the best chance at another ‘conservative’ Supreme Court Justice.  I can’t expect people that so passionately dislike legal abortion to vote any other way. 

I judge because they basically are admitting they don't care about racism, they don't care about sexism, they don't care about even the basic moral code they claim to stand for, they don't care about inciting violence and hate. They showed they are willing to make a deal with the devil to get their way, no matter the cost. And they honestly didn't come off as those sort of people who gritted their teeth and voted for him, they seemed enthusiastic Trump supporters. 

And I will judge because while they said in public they supported him, they have failed to condemn any of his horrific behaviors in the time since he became president. They have done nothing to indicate they don't still think he is doing an awesome job. 

[KeshetParparNesicha]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

And they honestly didn't come off as those sort of people who gritted their teeth and voted for him, they seemed enthusiastic Trump supporters.

Agreed. I know many, many people who voted for Trump with gritted teeth. The Bateses don't come across that way.

[QuiverDance]

I wonder if these lovers of the unborn have feelings about family separation at the Southern border.  You’d think they’d be appalled. 

[mstee]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

I wonder if these lovers of the unborn have feelings about family separation at the Southern border.  You’d think they’d be appalled. 

The conservative voters I know say that “the illegals should’ve known before they tried to come here”. They have been surprised or uncaring when I tell them that 1) many of these people had zero idea of the law to separate cause they were too busy fleeing bad situations and 2) it is not illegal to seek asylum at the border 

[VelociRapture]

43 minutes ago, mstee said:

The conservative voters I know say that “the illegals should’ve known before they tried to come here”. They have been surprised or uncaring when I tell them that 1) many of these people had zero idea of the law to separate cause they were too busy fleeing bad situations and 2) it is not illegal to seek asylum at the border 

Yep. I had to remove my college roommate from my life over this in the last couple of weeks. She was trying to argue it wasn’t that bad or that they should have known to come legally, etc. and I just can’t do it anymore. I love her dearly and I’ll always treasure our friendship, but I just can’t rationalize having someone in my life or around my daughter who thinks children torn from their parents and thrown into cages is in anyway defendable. 

[QuiverDance]

Oh did y’all not catch that was sarcasm? 

Very sad to see such blatant hypocrisy in people I used to call friends. I have written a few off over this one. 

[tumblr]

Politics is always a loaded topic. I am more conservative than most in this site but I still wouldn't self identify as a conservative. I have friends of all political persuasions. I maintain that as long as someone is doing there research and voting based on what they believe is best for then I won't and can't be upset with them. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

50 minutes ago, tumblr said:

Politics is always a loaded topic. I am more conservative than most in this site but I still wouldn't self identify as a conservative. I have friends of all political persuasions. I maintain that as long as someone is doing there research and voting based on what they believe is best for then I won't and can't be upset with them. 

I am also more conservative than most on this site. I consider myself an independent. I do have issues with hypocrisy. Trump's adultery, profanity, and botching of the most simple Bible verses while still getting praise from the pro-family values crowd stinks to the high heavens for me. I don't mind snarking on religious hypocrites since their Lord and Saviour did a lot of that himself. 

[QuiverDance]

It's weird.  This debacle has made me much more "liberal" than I ever was, though it still feels foreign to me to identify as liberal and not moderate.  I voted for John McCain in 2008, actually.  But something in me bent in 2012... Whether it was "Binders full of women," or "Women's bodies having ways of shutting 'that' down" ("That" being rape-pregnancy), and I have not voted for a Republican since.  I just ... can't.

[tumblr]

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I am also more conservative than most on this site. I consider myself an independent. I do have issues with hypocrisy. Trump's adultery, profanity, and botching of the most simple Bible verses while still getting praise from the pro-family values crowd stinks to the high heavens for me. I don't mind snarking on religious hypocrites since their Lord and Saviour did a lot of that himself. 

I self identify as a left leaning libertarian normally but I know a lot of people have misconceptions about libertarians and now the alt right is calling themselves libertarians.  

2016 was my first election I could vote but I followed both 2008 and 2012 pretty closely and grew up in a very political household. I use to just identify progressive but 2015 changed me. Fuck the government, why should the latest idiot or monster or even occasional good guy get to make desicions that affect my or anyone's private lives. 

[mydoggoskeeper]

5 hours ago, tumblr said:

I self identify as a left leaning libertarian normally but I know a lot of people have misconceptions about libertarians and now the alt right is calling themselves libertarians.  

2016 was my first election I could vote but I followed both 2008 and 2012 pretty closely and grew up in a very political household. I use to just identify progressive but 2015 changed me. Fuck the government, why should the latest idiot or monster or even occasional good guy get to make desicions that affect my or anyone's private lives. 

I think alt right "libertarians" would be horrified to know that the libertarian view on immigration is that government regulation impedes the free market movement of capital, goods, and workers.  Government intervention in this area impinges on individual freedom.  

[just_ordinary]

I would say I am one of the more if not the most conservative around my friends and fairly in the middle compared to our society as a whole but I guess in the USA I would be called a hard core left wing socialist.

[formergothardite]

15 hours ago, tumblr said:

I maintain that as long as someone is doing there research and voting based on what they believe is best for then I won't and can't be upset with them. 

When their voting starts messing up my life and the lives of others, yeah, I'll be upset. The thing about living in a society, we can't just be about what is best for me, because our a lot of our decisions impact the lives of the people around us. The anti-science, anti-environmental people are fucking it up for the rest of us. The anti-choice people could literally kill women. The anti-gay people will rip families apart and destroy lives. In NC the hog farmers have been spraying feces through the air on their farms, and of course those farmers vote for what is best for them(which is they can do that and no one can stop them or sue them), but for all the people living around them, it means their ground and surface water is now polluted and unusable, and they are breathing in pollutants that cause health problems. So yeah, I think we should all be upset that the hog farmers are voting on what they think is best for them with little thought to the countless people they are harming. 

And then there is just the fact that to vote for Trump one must say "I'm okay with racism, sexism and out right hate." I'm going to judge people for that. Trump was not the lesser evil, not by any stretch of the imagination. 

[seraaa]

On 7/8/2018 at 11:05 PM, mydoggoskeeper said:

On the long drive to visit my parents, both of whom voted for Trump for primarily SCOTUS pick reasons, I thought a lot about this.   They truly believe abortion is murder.  I get that and why they would want to support a pro-life candidate.   But at what point is that myopic focus on a single issue outweighed by other issues.   Clearly there has to be a point (speaking in the case of my parents), but apparently, candidate Trump didn't tip those scales.    I was tempted to ask but for the sake of family harmony didn't.    Abolish the tax exemption for churches? Atheist candidate?  Resegregate?  Institute sharia law?

 

 

I bet a lot of people held their nose and voted for him for similar reasons.

Will be interesting to see how many of those people do so again, now that we've seen him in action.

On 7/9/2018 at 10:53 PM, QuiverDance said:

It's weird.  This debacle has made me much more "liberal" than I ever was, though it still feels foreign to me to identify as liberal and not moderate.  I voted for John McCain in 2008, actually.  But something in me bent in 2012... Whether it was "Binders full of women," or "Women's bodies having ways of shutting 'that' down" ("That" being rape-pregnancy), and I have not voted for a Republican since.  I just ... can't.

It does feels like the Republicans in this particular moment are going through this period of turmoil, and they are pushing away people like yourself who would vote for them under other circumstances.

[KeshetParparNesicha]

11 hours ago, seraaa said:

It does feels like the Republicans in this particular moment are going through this period of turmoil, and they are pushing away people like yourself who would vote for them under other circumstances. 

This is true. 2012 was my first presidential election, and I voted for whoever my parents/the community supported. 2016 made that impossible. I'm still pretty conservative compared to most of the posters here, but I've become so much more liberal since the 2016 campaign that I barely recognize my 2012 self. I un-registered as a Republican on November 9 and haven't looked back.

[KelseyAnn]

8 hours ago, KeshetParparNesicha said:

This is true. 2012 was my first presidential election, and I voted for whoever my parents/the community supported. 2016 made that impossible. I'm still pretty conservative compared to most of the posters here, but I've become so much more liberal since the 2016 campaign that I barely recognize my 2012 self. I un-registered as a Republican on November 9 and haven't looked back.

You must be my twin, because 2012 was my first election and back then I leaned more conservative, too. 

[tumblr]

On 7/9/2018 at 11:36 PM, mydoggoskeeper said:

I think alt right "libertarians" would be horrified to know that the libertarian view on immigration is that government regulation impedes the free market movement of capital, goods, and workers.  Government intervention in this area impinges on individual freedom.  

Most of my libertarian friends are anti boarders period. I have to imagine the alt right would hate that. 

[Dutchie]

On 7/10/2018 at 10:46 AM, just_ordinary said:

I would say I am one of the more if not the most conservative around my friends and fairly in the middle compared to our society as a whole but I guess in the USA I would be called a hard core left wing socialist.

I think it also depends on your definition of right vs left. In the Netherlands the “Christian” issues (abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia) are only debated by 3 of 150 congressman. All others consider it established. So bleeding heart liberals

Social safety nets (universal pension, healthcare, maternity/paternity leave l, unemployment benefits and such) are debated on numbers and rules not existence. Again bleeding heart liberals.

Free trade and immigration is a hard one with what I consider rascism creeping in to the discussion, that one is more comparible to the us. 

[Nodaknorskie]

Just remember what people like the Bates are being fed by leading Evangelical Evagelists (isn't that a mouthful.)  Paula White said this week that Jesus wouldn't be Jesus if He had broken immigration laws.  He wasn't a law breaker.  Guess she forgot about that little episode in the temple.  But just think thats how they justify their meanness  by determining what Jesus would do and it's not very nice.

[Audrey2]

42 minutes ago, Nodaknorskie said:

Just remember what people like the Bates are being fed by leading Evangelical Evagelists (isn't that a mouthful.)  Paula White said this week that Jesus wouldn't be Jesus if He had broken immigration laws.  He wasn't a law breaker.  Guess she forgot about that little episode in the temple.  But just think thats how they justify their meanness  by determining what Jesus would do and it's not very nice.

Jesus was a lawbreaker/refugee earlier than that.

After hearing about the birth of Jesus, King Herod ordered all boys, two and under killed. (I seem to remember debate on how widely this edict reached.) Joseph took Mary and Jesus and escaped to Egypt.

Quote

The Escape to Egypt from the New International Version of the Bible

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”[c]

16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:

18 “A voice is heard in Ramah,
    weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
    and refusing to be comforted,
    because they are no more.”[d]

The Return to Nazareth

19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt 20 and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child’s life are dead.”

21 So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.

Hmmm.... let me think about this... escaping a regime that wants you dead? That sounds like the definition of a refugee to me.

[JordynDarby5]

Not to mention and I know Fundies love to forget this one. Jesus allowed EVERYONE. He welcomed EVERYONE.

[llucie]

I feel like i have to apologize for derailing this thread to politics 

[CaptainFunderpants]

8 hours ago, llucie said:

I feel like i have to apologize for derailing this thread to politics 

I just feeling like complaining about politics regarding these people is incredibly boring. We know they're Trumpers. We know don't care to think about things rationally or with any depth. We know that they have no concept of empathy for those they have no hope of converting. It is what it is. It's not particularly interesting, because plenty of non-fundamentalists are like that too.

[Ivycoveredtower]