Josie and Kelton 1: Here We Go Again

[OhNoNike]

Do we know when they actually got engaged?

[stardust]

13 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I know I was joking around about wanting to see Carlin’s reaction if this happened, but now that it has I actually feel a bit bad. At this point marriage is the only way out of the house for Carlin.* It sounds like she was making a real effort to appear happy in the Facebook Live they did prior to the official announcement and that can’t have been easy for her given how fresh the news was at that point. I hope that Carlin is able to be happy for and supportive of Josie, but I also hope her family is considerate of Carlin’s feelings as well and that they don’t force her into situations that will make things tougher for her.

*We can discuss endlessly how she could simply leave or ask for help from her grandparents or any other possible means for leaving her parents’ house, but at the end of the day that all depends on Carlin realizing her parents have severely shortchanged her and I don’t see that happening any time soon. 

I'll bet she won't be fuming for long. She won't have long to wait now that Evan likely has enormous pressure on him to propose ASAP. I think both couples will be engaged and planning weddings at the same time similarly to Cherin and Zachney in 2013. I could see them getting married within a month or two of each other. Honestly I feel more sympathy for Evan than I do for Carlin. He's going to have to support a wife (and kid) soon and he's obviously not ready for it poor guy. 

[VelociRapture]

14 minutes ago, OhNoNike said:

Do we know when they actually got engaged?

It seems like they got engaged the morning before those beautiful formal photos of them were taken. I’d say it happened sometime within the last four or five days. 

[OhNoNike]

39 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

It seems like they got engaged the morning before those beautiful formal photos of them were taken. I’d say it happened sometime within the last four or five days. 

It’s so weird bc we are NOT from this area at all and visited there two days ago. This may be the closest I’ve knowingly come to being in the same state as one of these people lol

[Tangy Bee]

I try SO hard to be happy for these young women. My heart sinks with each engagement that happens before 20. But hey, at least some are well traveled even if it is mission work or honeymoons over seas. How did the broke Rod's afford to send Nurie to Africa?? Or I remember a few Bates girls going to Romania long before they had a show? Sorry I changed the subject. With funds coming in from the show, Josie will likely quit the salon next week because she "needs" the time off to plan her wedding. Ya'll know her wedding has been fully planned in her mind since last year! On a positive note, Kelton probably already has place for them since he works plus with the help of Uptv money. Oh and don't forget magazine interviews $$$$

[VelociRapture]

45 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

I try SO hard to be happy for these young women. My heart sinks with each engagement that happens before 20. But hey, at least some are well traveled even if it is mission work or honeymoons over seas. How did the broke Rod's afford to send Nurie to Africa?? Or I remember a few Bates girls going to Romania long before they had a show? Sorry I changed the subject. With funds coming in from the show, Josie will likely quit the salon next week because she "needs" the time off to plan her wedding. Ya'll know her wedding has been fully planned in her mind since last year! On a positive note, Kelton probably already has place for them since he works plus with the help of Uptv money. Oh and don't forget magazine interviews $$$$

I don’t know. Alyssa kept working at the florist while planning her wedding. I think Kelly claimed it was “wedding inspiration” for her, but I honestly think she just liked having a reason to leave the house. I could see Josie continuing at the salon for a little bit - she seems to enjoy what she does and extra money to pay for the wedding (or save) would be useful. 

[VelociRapture]

And the photographer posted another photo to congratulate them. Officially. After spilling the beans by accident. 

 

[Seculardaisy]

Josie is so beautiful. I liked the other photo the photographer posted previously better. Josie’s dress and Kelton’s pants are blending together oddly in this one.

What a stunning backdrop.

Taryn Yager must be fuming that she couldn’t be included due to location. 

[purple_summer]

This is almost equal parts surprising and not. She did catch the bouquet at Tori's wedding after all.

[HarleyQuinn]

He calls her "baby girl?" Aside from a few early 2000's rap songs I've only heard people call their kids that. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I really hope Josie keeps working while planning the wedding and even after they marry. She will probably have to quit when she has her first baby but at least she can remember the time where she actually got to work before she became a baby making machine for Jesus. 

[nausicaa]

18 hours ago, Seculardaisy said:

Re: The InTouch article

Must everything involve a scavenger hunt for fundies?

Yeah, it's getting old. Also, a huge scavenger hunt with my parents and future in-laws is basically my worst nightmare for a proposal (and not romantic at all). 

Then again, it makes for good TV, unlike a quiet proposal over a nice dinner. So, I'm thinking we'll be seeing more of these. 

Also, after Carlin's huge courtship proposal and how these things seem to be increasing in elaborateness through the siblings, Evan really has the pressure on him. I'm thinking it's the Eiffel Tower at midnight or bust. 

6 hours ago, OhNoNike said:

It’s so weird bc we are NOT from this area at all and visited there two days ago. This may be the closest I’ve knowingly come to being in the same state as one of these people lol

I almost went for a hike at Great Falls National Park the same day that Brandon proposed to Michael. I am both relieved and regretful. 

6 hours ago, stardust said:

 Honestly I feel more sympathy for Evan than I do for Carlin. He's going to have to support a wife (and kid) soon and he's obviously not ready for it poor guy. 

Me too. Also-- and this is just a hunch from me -- I don't think Carlin is mature enough to understand budgeting or economize the way her older sisters have in the past. She was pretty young when Gil and Kelly attained more financial stability, and in the past few years there have been a lot of perks. I noticed how nice her dress and makeup were during the courtship proposal. Unlike Michael or Erin, I do not see her toughing it out in an RV, or even shopping second-hand. And yet she is marrying the least financially stable guy of all of her sisters.

I find this marriage more fascinating than any of the others. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Back in college (early 2000s) I had a conservative Christian friend whose longtime conservative Christian boyfriend proposed through a scavenger hunt. I feel like fundies are always late on all things hip and trendy. This is just one more example I suppose.

[Daisy0322]

54 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

He calls her "baby girl?" Aside from a few early 2000's rap songs I've only heard people call their kids that. 

Southern thing

[squiddysquid]

I think that is exactly the problem with Carlin: she doesn't understand. At all.

There are a lot of valid arguments why she shouldn't get married now and she doesn't see reason. Get married = happily ever after.

I'm sure her parents had some long talks with her and she's willing to do anything they say. But so she can finally walk down the isle and get some super cute pictures to post in instagram.

More like in the sense of "if you floss your teeth every night without complaining, we'll give you a barbie for christmas." Only here we're talking about getting hitched.

She doesn't seem to have any second thoughts or worries about the future; she doesn't seem to plan beyond the wedding, which in her defense, is the way they were raised, mindlessly follow your headship.

Where we see red flags, she sees sunshine and rainbows. Waiting until the honeymoon phase is over to make irreversible (in fundieville) and life altering decisions makes sense. (though unusual in fundie circles).

Zach and Nathan had failed courtships. Expecting that everyone will find their perfect match with their first partner is crazy (though again, fundies...). People mentioned this before; imagine being married to your first highschool crush. Ugh, Rufus bless thay would have been a desaster.

And though they are all kidults and not prepared for real life, Carlin does seem far more behind than most. It might take her a while longer to get some insight.

At least her siblings seemed to have some doubts and planned a bit ahead as their relationships progressed. Carlin is a lot slower in the process of realizing that she'll have to live with her decision forever and grasp the immensity of that.

[Daisy0322]

Does anyone else get the feeling Carlin is a little.... how do I put this eloquently....behind the others. No that there's anything wrong with her. She just seems a little immature, not as bright, a little more doe eyed. Maybe if that's why Gil thinks that's what Evan likes about her, he is trying to wait Evan out. Or is that giving him to much credit for protecting his daughters?

[stardust]

29 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

Does anyone else get the feeling Carlin is a little.... how do I put this eloquently....behind the others. No that there's anything wrong with her. She just seems a little immature, not as bright, a little more doe eyed. Maybe if that's why Gil thinks that's what Evan likes about her, he is trying to wait Evan out. Or is that giving him to much credit for protecting his daughters?

I think this is a pretty popular opinion on here 

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, Daisy0322 said:

Does anyone else get the feeling Carlin is a little.... how do I put this eloquently....behind the others. No that there's anything wrong with her. She just seems a little immature, not as bright, a little more doe eyed. Maybe if that's why Gil thinks that's what Evan likes about her, he is trying to wait Evan out. Or is that giving him to much credit for protecting his daughters?

I wouldn’t say behind (maybe in education level- her reading abilities were atrocious) but some people just live in kind of another world than the rest of us. My brother is like that- always seeing situations a tad different than the rest of us, always a bit too naive, always only seeing/believing the positive thing when everyone else knows it’s a BAD idea.

I wonder if in the end she will be very happy in the Fundie lifestyle, submitting to her headship because that means she won’t have to think herself and she probably won’t see if her situation is really bad.

[picklepizzas]

1 hour ago, Daisy0322 said:

Does anyone else get the feeling Carlin is a little.... how do I put this eloquently....behind the others. No that there's anything wrong with her. She just seems a little immature, not as bright, a little more doe eyed. Maybe if that's why Gil thinks that's what Evan likes about her, he is trying to wait Evan out. Or is that giving him to much credit for protecting his daughters?

To me carlin is the only one acting her age. i work at a college and she seems like a typical college student. she'd probably fit in really well with the sorority life. the girls like josie are more striking to me, like 'woah - she's seems unusually mature for her age (or at least pretending to be) - none of the 19 year olds i interact with regularly seem that ready for marriage'.  i think because the girls in carlin's circle are encouraged to mature prematurely and move on to marriage at such a young age that it makes carlin seem strikingly immature, but that's only against the backdrop of her circle. if you dropped her into a crowd of secular college girls her age she'd blend right in. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

@squiddysquid I agree with everything you’ve said! Carlin definitely seems like the type that wants a wedding but not necessarily a marriage and to have a baby but not necessarily to be a mother. For her it seems like these are things she wants to check off doing as soon as possible even though she doesn’t seem emotionally prepared enough to handle the complexities. I think it’s fair for her not to be ready. Her sisters may have been at her age but being 19-20 and not being ready to take those things on is completely understandable (and fairly normal) outside of fundie culture. I don’t think she would care as much about marrying Evan ASAP if they were allowed to just date. I still don’t buy the nonsense about courting “protecting the heart”. What about the heart when two people are rushed into a marriage they aren’t prepared for? When Evan takes on more pressure because he’s supposed to be fully equipped to become the head of the household and provide? When Carlin gets pregnant right away when she was still adjusting to sharing space with Evan? When they go from doing absolutely nothing physical all the way in one night? Their first fight? The Bates may be doing Carlin a favor trying to get her to mature a little more before marrying, but they have done her no favors subjecting her to the pressure and expectations of their culture. 

[Irish13]

I really don’t see Carlin and Evan making it to the ceremony. I very much get a “I just want to be on TV” vibe from him. 

[Kangaroo]

CsCarlin wants a marriage and a baby because that's what all her sisters and close friends are doing. It's all she's been told she's ever allowed to want.

Gil could be holding them back because he's not sure about Evan for whatever reason we don't see properly though our screens. But I think it's more likely Gil knows very well that if he says yes, the guy needs to help pay for a wedding within 3 months, a place to live immediately thereafter, and likely, a baby within a year. We know Evan is undertaking some sort of further education, and even though Carlin is also, he's the one that needs to support her and their child.

I also think we didn't see as much resistance towards her Erin, Alyssa and Michael's suitors because they were respected IBLP families the Bates knew well, and Alyssa's case, a Senator's son. They were "good matches" within the cult before the BuB  publicity era (and to an extent the ongoing downfall of the Duggars reputation).

Evan can't support a baby in a year from now, has got no family history with the Bates, isn't IBLP (correct me if I'm wrong there because I can't find anything on this being the case) and hasn't got Gil's trust from the looks of things. 

I know we all talk about Kelly being the mastermind behind their brand image, but Gil isn't stupid either when it comes to allowing partners that will uphold their position.

 

[VelociRapture]

Josie shared three more engagement photos. That first one is pretty gorgeous:

 

[justmy2cents]

If Kelly and Gil didn't think Carlin was ready for marriage or mature enough they probably wouldn't have approved her getting to know someone or being in a courtship to begin with.  They're all about 'dating with marriage in mind'.  They wouldn't have wanted to stir up desires which could not be righteously fulfilled if they didn't think she'd be ready soon. I think the hold up is Evan and his ability to support her at this time. The moment he's ready Kelly and Gil will be on board.

[Seculardaisy]

I don’t think Kelly has any reservations at all about Carlin and Evan, maybe Gil does. Kelly proclaimed at the courtship that it was so perfect “Evan should just give her the ring.” And then in the recent episode said “Okay Evan here’s your engagement moment.”

Kelly loves weddings, she knows weddings + babies are the heartbeat of the show.