Josie and Kelton 1: Here We Go Again

[RosyDaisy]

I really hope Josie keeps working while planning the wedding and even after they marry

Or she could open a salon out of their future salon. I know a lot of cosmetologists who operate out of their home.

[AlltheJs]

Long time reader, first time poster.

My take on why Josie and Kelton are engaged but Carlin and Evan aren't is a variety of things. One angle is because Josie and Kelton both have trades, not just jobs. If they get fired tomorrow they have the ability to support themselves with their skills. They also both seem quite mature and know what their aims are outside of "I want to get married and have babies". Josie seems more mature than Carlin in general also. 

I also wonder if there is suspicion from the Bates camp around Evans intentions with Carlin. Would he be with her if it wasn't for the public image platform? Going by his instagram live feed I would speculate that is a big part of Carlins appeal for him. If you compare that to Keltons you get the occasional photo of him and Josie or his personal life but it isn't an irritating "look at me" vibe you get from Evans. Are they potentially drawing out Evan & Carlins courtship to ensure this isn't the case?

There's also the potential that neither of them are financially stable at this point in their lives. The Bates have yet to marry a daughter off to a man who couldn't financially support them (ahem, I'm looking at you JimBob). Regardless of all their other faults, shitty beliefs and questionable child rearing practices, they have yet to marry a daughter into poverty where they are reduced to begging to survive. I doubt they would be comfortable doing that (combo of brand awareness and they do seem to care about their kids) and especially to Carlin who has a very extroverted and sparkly personality, people would notice a change and that could be potentially damaging to their brand.

On a side note, the engagement photos were spectacular. The boy did good but I am tiring of the scavenger hunt they all seem to be insisting on.

[llucie]

Well i dont agree, the Bates have married daughters to men with bad paying jobs before.  Brandon and Michaella first lived in a super tiny rented apartment, and looked rather poor. Bobby was living in a camper when he married Tori, and working in a temporal job that Chad got him. Its not like they already had everything figured out at the time of the marriage. Even their own son decided to become a police officer after his wedding, and was in the academy when he already had a son. 

Evan had a job that i dont see why it was considered worst than Chads for example. And he is even trying to improve himself getting a trade.

I dont know the reasons, maybe they dont agree with him on religious matters or something, i know his sisters work and use pants, maybe they are not fundie althought they definetely are very religious, but whatever the reason they are not using the usual standards for him.

[BeccaGrim]

5 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

CsCarlin wants a marriage and a baby because that's what all her sisters and close friends are doing. It's all she's been told she's ever allowed to want.

Gil could be holding them back because he's not sure about Evan for whatever reason we don't see properly though our screens. But I think it's more likely Gil knows very well that if he says yes, the guy needs to help pay for a wedding within 3 months, a place to live immediately thereafter, and likely, a baby within a year. We know Evan is undertaking some sort of further education, and even though Carlin is also, he's the one that needs to support her and their child.

I also think we didn't see as much resistance towards her Erin, Alyssa and Michael's suitors because they were respected IBLP families the Bates knew well, and Alyssa's case, a Senator's son. They were "good matches" within the cult before the BuB  publicity era (and to an extent the ongoing downfall of the Duggars reputation).

Evan can't support a baby in a year from now, has got no family history with the Bates, isn't IBLP (correct me if I'm wrong there because I can't find anything on this being the case) and hasn't got Gil's trust from the looks of things. 

I know we all talk about Kelly being the mastermind behind their brand image, but Gil isn't stupid either when it comes to allowing partners that will uphold their position.

 

The Stewarts are big time Fundie royalty.   They're celebrities with all that singing. 

[llg1234]

1 hour ago, llucie said:

Brandon and Michaella first lived in a super tiny rented apartment, and looked rather poor. Bobby was living in a camper when he married Tori, and working in a temporal job that Chad got him. Its not like they already had everything figured out at the time of the marriage.

Sorry to nitpick, but Michael and Brandon live in a big city, so their money isn’t going to go nearly as far as it would in TN. Their apartment was small, but I never thought it looked shabby. Also, Bobby had an apartment when he and Tori got married. He had a temp job because he was waiting for Tori to finish school. I can’t remember when it was announced, but he had the youth pastor job in Nashville lined up for quite awhile before they moved. 

22 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

The Stewarts are big time Fundie royalty.   They're celebrities with all that singing. 

Singing fundy families are a dime a dozen. I have yet to see any indication that the Stewarts are hugely successful. They don’t even have any upcoming events on their website. 

[llucie]

1 minute ago, llg1234 said:

Sorry to nitpick, but Michael and Brandon live in a big city, so their money isn’t going to go nearly as far as it would in TN. Their apartment was small, but I never thought it looked shabby. Also, Bobby had an apartment when he and Tori got married. He had a temp job because he was waiting for Tori to finish school. I can’t remember when it was announced, but he had the youth pastor job in Nashville lined up for quite awhile before they moved. 

Singing fundy families are a dime a dozen. I have yet to see any indication that the Stewarts are hugely successful. They don’t even have any upcoming events on their website. 

Whatever the reason they still lived in a super tiny apartment, and Gil and Kelly thought they were in a good situation to marry. They had no way to know that a gazillion kids were not comming soon, so they were ok to her daughter living in poverty. And the bigger house now is owned by IBLP, thats the only reason they can afford it.

I doubt Bobby is making that much money as a youth pastor anyway. And his temp job was Chad long time job that was considered enought for him to support a wife and 3 children for a long time.

Maybe Evans family is not very sucessfull as singing ministry, but they are not poor like the Rodrigues, they live in a nice house and all have good jobs, and seem educated. 

 

[tumblr]

I wouldn't be surprised if Carlin chooses to break things off if he isn't approved for a wedding soon. Carlin strikes me as more into her goals (being a bride and getting out of the house) than into Evan. She's superficial and no matter how much she likes him she likes the attention of being a bride and the freedom of getting out better.

[AlltheJs]

7 hours ago, llucie said:

Well i dont agree, the Bates have married daughters to men with bad paying jobs before.  Brandon and Michaella first lived in a super tiny rented apartment, and looked rather poor. Bobby was living in a camper when he married Tori, and working in a temporal job that Chad got him. Its not like they already had everything figured out at the time of the marriage. Even their own son decided to become a police officer after his wedding, and was in the academy when he already had a son. 

Evan had a job that i dont see why it was considered worst than Chads for example. And he is even trying to improve himself getting a trade.

I didn't say "bad paying jobs", I said living in poverty and being reduced to beg. A small, well maintained apartment in a big city is not poverty by world standards, a shack in "Sintrel America" with questionable sanitation, water and power availability while begging for money on the internet I would consider poverty.

Bobby may have been living in a camper working at a job that Chad got him but he had another job lined up and it was temporary while Tori finished school. Chances are that job he had lined up has a house attached to it.

Zach upskilling by training at the academy gave them another story line for the show, therefore bringing in the $$ for the family as a whole. It was a plan and with UPs backing for funding I'm pretty sure the Bates would have been comfortable assisting.

Chad has always been skilled, a hard worker and from a good fundie family they had known for many years (we first saw him on the United Bates of America). He also seems the quiet achiever type, not the splash across social media for likes type.

At this point in time Evan is still in school and doesn't have a roof to put over Carlins head. Bobby may have only had a camper to put over Toris head but there seemed to be a plan after that temporary roof. Bobby also lacked the "look at me" factor that Evan has. Evan is also not a born Bates (like Zach) so lacks the interest from UP (or Kelly) when it comes to his job, upskilling or training, thinking about it how often do you see what one of the in laws does for work unless the Bates offspring is involved in it? It might be a glimpse on one episode.

It might just be his and/or her downright lack of maturity that has them baulking at this point in time. It might be that there is no plan after wedding as to how they are going to live their lives. Unless we spoke directly and candidly to Kelly and/or Gil we would never know.

[lumpentheologie]

8 hours ago, llucie said:

Whatever the reason they still lived in a super tiny apartment, and Gil and Kelly thought they were in a good situation to marry.

I'm not sure why you think living in a small apartment means you don't have much money. A lot of the time It just means you're prioritizing location over space. There are very small two bedroom apartments in several neighborhoods here that go for well over a million dollars. Chicago may be somewhat cheaper, but the point stands. 

[HereticHick]

Dear Fundy Guys:

It pisses me off to no end when you "surprise" your girlfriends at their jobs (Josie) or their educational institution (was that Michaella?) and drag them away for a trip.

I get that you don't believe that wimmin should have jobs or an education--but try not to make your contempt so damn obvious.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

21 hours ago, llucie said:

Whatever the reason they still lived in a super tiny apartment, and Gil and Kelly thought they were in a good situation to marry. They had no way to know that a gazillion kids were not comming soon, so they were ok to her daughter living in poverty. And the bigger house now is owned by IBLP, thats the only reason they can afford it.

I doubt Bobby is making that much money as a youth pastor anyway. And his temp job was Chad long time job that was considered enought for him to support a wife and 3 children for a long time.

Maybe Evans family is not very sucessfull as singing ministry, but they are not poor like the Rodrigues, they live in a nice house and all have good jobs, and seem educated. 

 

I just rewatched the episode in the first season where they talk about Brandon and Michaela... And I think Gil and Kelly said that he spent most of his money on his education, so a courtship would have to wait until he'd bulked up his savings a bit more.

My head went to the small apartment again, but Chicago is a bit more expensive than TN. LOL.

The tiny apartment allowed them to save for a downpayment, maybe?

[Coconut Flan]

This for sure.  When I was reading the story my first thought was what about her customers who had appointments and just how was that managed?  Did he think to find a time when she had time off or did some one make sure she planned some time off?  

I had a friend some years back who was a teacher and her husband took her on a surprise trip.  He did all the planning, arranged her time off, and even packed for her.  Publicly she was thrilled.  I expect privately she was seething.  I was always glad my employer would have responded with who do you think you are to any spouse requesting vacation time for me.  The only type of request we would have taken was for sick time for someone unable to call in and with a medical note dropped off or mailed.

[Naughty&nice]

On 6/22/2018 at 9:39 PM, Seculardaisy said:

Re: The InTouch article

Must everything involve a scavenger hunt for fundies?

My guess is that the show encourages this - more locations, more interesting footage.

They've got to make the most of these romances, its their lifeblood.  I can't imagine the pressure on these boys.  They've gotta deal with the parents, the silly rules & the pressure of making the show successful.  Its gotta get bigger & better with each relationship. Sad that they can't do what they want.  No one would allow a proposal over dinner at a restaurant or on a hike in the woods at this point..   

At least it felt to me that Kelton tried to keep the courtship proposal more private (not involving the whole family) which I think Josie liked more as she seems more private than the other girls who bask in the limelight.

[nausicaa]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:48 AM, Seculardaisy said:

I don’t think Kelly has any reservations at all about Carlin and Evan, maybe Gil does. Kelly proclaimed at the courtship that it was so perfect “Evan should just give her the ring.” And then in the recent episode said “Okay Evan here’s your engagement moment.”

Kelly loves weddings, she knows weddings + babies are the heartbeat of the show.

You think she'd be savvy enough to space them out a bit more though. Carlin is the last girl of marriageable age for a while. The boys' weddings just aren't going to bring in as much attention (except maybe Lawson's). Once Katie is married (next year is my guess) the only "events" for the show will be babies, which people will get tired of after a while. 

[catlady]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Dear Fundy Guys:

It pisses me off to no end when you "surprise" your girlfriends at their jobs (Josie) or their educational institution (was that Michaella?) and drag them away for a trip.

I get that you don't believe that wimmin should have jobs or an education--but try not to make your contempt so damn obvious.

 

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

This for sure.  When I was reading the story my first thought was what about her customers who had appointments and just how was that managed?  Did he think to find a time when she had time off or did some one make sure she planned some time off?  

I had a friend some years back who was a teacher and her husband took her on a surprise trip.  He did all the planning, arranged her time off, and even packed for her.  Publicly she was thrilled.  I expect privately she was seething.  I was always glad my employer would have responded with who do you think you are to any spouse requesting vacation time for me.  The only type of request we would have taken was for sick time for someone unable to call in and with a medical note dropped off or mailed.

i was annoyed, too, when i read that he surprised her at work.  because, you know, her *job*.  

many years ago Mr. CL attempted to surprise me with a trip.  at the time, i was working full time M-F plus a second job on the weekends at a small family-owned motel.  he arranged a Sat-Sun overnight with show tickets in Toronto (we lived outside Buffalo).  but he didn't take into account my employers' annual convention, which meant they'd be several states away the same weekend.  thus i had to work the morning shift, 7 to 3, both Sat and Sun, and there wasn't enough other staff to cover my absence.  Mr. CL presented me with the trip three days in advance.  the show tickets were non-refundable.  so we went.  the border was busy so the normally-90-minute drive took over 2 hours.  by the time we checked into the hotel, we had less than 2 hours to change, find a place for dinner, and get to the theater.  then i had to wake up shortly after 4 so we could get dressed and leave in time for me to open the motel office at 7.  i won't say the trip sucked, but the whole thing seemed like a waste because we were in Canada for about 14 hours.  my rambling point is that in the real world, surprise trips seldom work as well as intended.

[Dutchie]

Isn’t it strange no bates members have mentioned the engagement on instagram? 

[KelseyAnn]

17 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I'm not sure why you think living in a small apartment means you don't have much money. A lot of the time It just means you're prioritizing location over space. There are very small two bedroom apartments in several neighborhoods here that go for well over a million dollars. Chicago may be somewhat cheaper, but the point stands. 

This. I live in MInnesota where rent is dirt cheap and I still live in a small ass apartment because its one of the only places that will let me have my cat and dog. 

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, Dutchie said:

Isn’t it strange no bates members have mentioned the engagement on instagram? 

Has it been announced on their TV show yet?

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

posting now, bc this thread seems to be in a post-engagement lull, and this has been driving me crazy for awhile --

I've seen several times on FJ (i think in this thread, def in the big Cheat Sheet thread), on fundie Tumblr, and definitely in the fundie Wikia as well, that Kelton is the 2nd born of 5. Where did this come from?

I am almost 100% positive he is the oldest - Kelton, Ariana, Grant, other brother (carson? maybe?), and Kiersten. From Kelton's instagram, his bros both definitely look younger. Grant's tagged in some photos, his instagram is private but the description bio thingy lists PCC in it, so I assume he student-aged. Ariana Balka's insta is also private, but PCC has done a feature and quoted her in articles, implying she was a freshman (class secretary!) in '16-'17 (Kelton's final year) & sophomore in '17-'18, and also stating that she was 11 when her mother died (per Kelton, he was 13). 

[VBOY9977]

2 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

posting now, bc this thread seems to be in a post-engagement lull, and this has been driving me crazy for awhile --

I've seen several times on FJ (i think in this thread, def in the big Cheat Sheet thread), on fundie Tumblr, and definitely in the fundie Wikia as well, that Kelton is the 2nd born of 5. Where did this come from?

I am almost 100% positive he is the oldest - Kelton, Ariana, Grant, other brother (carson? maybe?), and Kiersten. From Kelton's instagram, his bros both definitely look younger. Grant's tagged in some photos, his instagram is private but the description bio thingy lists PCC in it, so I assume he student-aged. Ariana Balka's insta is also private, but PCC has done a feature and quoted her in articles, implying she was a freshman (class secretary!) in '16-'17 (Kelton's final year) & sophomore in '17-'18, and also stating that she was 11 when her mother died (per Kelton, he was 13). 

Yes his sister is younger. I follow her on insta and she’s still in college. Fundamentalist wiki is editable so maybe someone will fix it. 

[freethemall]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:29 PM, lumpentheologie said:

I'm not sure why you think living in a small apartment means you don't have much money. A lot of the time It just means you're prioritizing location over space. There are very small two bedroom apartments in several neighborhoods here that go for well over a million dollars. Chicago may be somewhat cheaper, but the point stands. 

@llucie a tiny apartment in Chicago can be equivalent in price to a 2 bedroom home in TN like Chad and Erin's. And it certainly wasn't the projects. I've lived in big cities (Boston, Washington DC, Baltimore) and rural areas in North Carolina and paid less for a large cottage in NC than I did for a crappy small basement apartment in DC. 

Brandon had a full time job at IBLP HQ when they got married. Certainly fundie royalty and likely decently paid. Compare to the Wallers who also had a nice house in Chicago.

[llucie]

55 minutes ago, freethemall said:

@llucie a tiny apartment in Chicago can be equivalent in price to a 2 bedroom home in TN like Chad and Erin's. And it certainly wasn't the projects. I've lived in big cities (Boston, Washington DC, Baltimore) and rural areas in North Carolina and paid less for a large cottage in NC than I did for a crappy small basement apartment in DC. 

Brandon had a full time job at IBLP HQ when they got married. Certainly fundie royalty and likely decently paid. Compare to the Wallers who also had a nice house in Chicago.

The Wallers had the same exact house in Chicago. like the same same. i suposse they "rent" it to workers of IBLP in a low marked prize(the house is in a very expensive area they would otherwise not afford). I doubt they are well payed. And he is not fundie royalty, just a mere worker there.

[llucie]

By the way i just looked thought Josies pinterest and she has a fantastic boho chic style, i think her wedding is going to be the best one so far.

[Oh_Dear!]

 

looks like the family Instagram finally mentioned the engagement. Pretty pics. 

 

[HereticHick]

Another week, another Bates family vacation.