Joy and Austin 18: 234 Days Since the Wedding and Counting

[MargaretElliott]

Oh for fuck's sake. I know several women who wanted to exclusively breastfeed but couldn't. Whether it was due to health issues, or not producing enough milk, or one stubborn baby that outright refused to latch on under any circumstances, they wanted to, but they couldn't. So they chose to have a well-fed, healthy baby instead of starving the child for the sake of an ideal. I can't really say anything else that hasn't been said by someone before me- fed is best!

I seem to remember Michelle having some trouble breastfeeding (I'm remembering inverted nipples for some reason? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) so she pumped? I do wonder what the different Duggars think about this. Have any of them stated what method they used? Jill seems the type to sanctimoniously insist that breast is best, while I would imagine Joy wanting to breastfeed exclusively, but being slightly more pragmatic about the matter. Jinger, in my mind, wouldn't have many qualms about using formula in a pinch. This is all purely speculation based on heavily-edited snippets of their personalities and the ever-reliable gut feeling. I'd be interested to hear their perspectives, though. 

[tabitha2]

I apparently refused the nip.. I spit out the thing. I was really loosing weight when I finally got put on formula. The Doctor had to prescribe it.  I still hate anything other than food being in my mouth because of very sensitive gag reflex.  

[Million Children For Jesus]

I had c-sections every time, and each time I produced enough milk to feed a village. I also enjoyed breastfeeding. In old times, I would have been a great wet nurse. 

With middle-million, the nurses bottle fed him without asking or telling me. When I told them I was upset, the doctor became irate and yelled at me. He told me they assumed he should be given a bottle, "because nobody breastfeeds anymore." He went on to criticize my choice to breastfeed because it was outdated and unnecessary. He said my baby would get better nutrition from formula and that I was being stubborn, ignorant, and irresponsible by not using formula. Times have changed for the better.

I support breastfeeding, but I also fully support any woman who can't or doesn't want to try it. It isn't for everyone. #FedIsBest 

[MayMay1123]

child #1, breastfed for a few months, whoops, got pregnant and we both stopped trying LOL child #2, staph infection (toxic shock syndrome) after a c-section. i was so sick and on so many antibiotics and drugs for 6 weeks that i didn't want to chance them getting into his system so he was formula fed. child #3 exclusively breastfed for a year...this is the kid with the weakest immune system and allergic to basically everything. its all a crap shoot...but as most people can agree, feeding your baby is better than not feeding your baby!

[Blue jay]

1 hour ago, SweetJuly said:

However, I had a breast reduction surgery some 15 years ago, and I read that there is a possibility I might not be able to breastfeed.

You are me about two years ago! Breast reduction surgery can definitely impact supply, but there is lots you can do if you really want to breastfeed. I ended up having to supplement with formula but my baby is 18 months old and still nursing a few times a day. Even if you don’t have a full supply your baby can benefit from whatever you can produce. I wish I had better help through this journey. Ill PM you with some info and advice if you’d like. 

[SassyPants]

On 1/22/2018 at 8:21 AM, Irishy said:

All the shoes on/off talk became redundant in our house once we got our dog and her giant paws. Every day in winter is a battle with mud. 

I used to work, have kids in the home, no housekeeper, and my house was immaculate. Now I am retired with an indoor Golden and that bewitch is trashing this place. I can literally fill an entire canister on my Dyson Animal, daily- #oldladygivesup.

[kachuu]

1 hour ago, MayMay1123 said:

child #1, breastfed for a few months, whoops, got pregnant and we both stopped trying LOL child #2, staph infection (toxic shock syndrome) after a c-section. i was so sick and on so many antibiotics and drugs for 6 weeks that i didn't want to chance them getting into his system so he was formula fed. child #3 exclusively breastfed for a year...this is the kid with the weakest immune system and allergic to basically everything. its all a crap shoot...but as most people can agree, feeding your baby is better than not feeding your baby!

Isn't Toxic shock syndrome associated with leaving a tampon in too long? I didn't know that it could be associated with infections in general especially after a c-section. That's really interesting info (and something else i can add to my list if i have to have a csection come may when my baby is due!)

 

 

Also, on the flip side of having a reduction, does having really small boobs affect your milk supply? I feel like i might not have enough. I keep waiting for mine to pop out like stripper boobs, but nothing!

[candygirl200413]

So I actually wrote my capstone on black women and breastfeeding during undergrad and it really opened my eyes just like how for example how they would want help to BF but there would have no assistance to approach this. I personally have always thought regardless just feed your baby but it really made me realize I didn't know just how upsetting it can be for some women to not be able to BF.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 minute ago, candygirl200413 said:

So I actually wrote my capstone on black women and breastfeeding during undergrad and it really opened my eyes just like how for example how they would want help to BF but there would have no assistance to approach this. I personally have always thought regardless just feed your baby but it really made me realize I didn't know just how upsetting it can be for some women to not be able to BF.

Oh yeah, my kids are 20 and almost 18 and I still wish I could have done it, I wanted the natural birth in a birthing center and to nurse my kids until they were 2 and all that hippy crunchy crap that I love. But everything flew out the window when I developed hypertension and retained the Mississippi River and then my water breaking at 36 weeks with no onset of labor. emergency c/sections,  I have inverted nipples, had a new born with a weak suck and I don't lactate. Can you say not even close to what I wanted. And then to be mommy shammed for having c/sections and formula feeding. It isn't what I wanted it is what I got.  I realized a few years later had my kids been born 100 years earlier I would have died giving birth to baby #1 and he wouldn't' have survived either.  So as I told one uppity mom on line 18 years ago, I guess I should have just died rather than have a c/section, would I have been the best mother ever then? Shut her up but good.

[JillyO]

32 minutes ago, kachuu said:

Isn't Toxic shock syndrome associated with leaving a tampon in too long? I didn't know that it could be associated with infections in general especially after a c-section. That's really interesting info (and something else i can add to my list if i have to have a csection come may when my baby is due!)

Toxic shock syndrome is caused by a bacterial infection. It is often associated with leaving tampons in longer than 8 hours, as you said, but today is more likely to occur after surgery or with an open wound. Modern tampons are much less likely to cause TSS than earlier "models." It's not something only menstruating women can get, either! Obviously, persons who menstruate should still follow the instructions on the tampon box.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

Oh for fuck's sake. I know several women who wanted to exclusively breastfeed but couldn't. Whether it was due to health issues, or not producing enough milk, or one stubborn baby that outright refused to latch on under any circumstances, they wanted to, but they couldn't. So they chose to have a well-fed, healthy baby instead of starving the child for the sake of an ideal. I can't really say anything else that hasn't been said by someone before me- fed is best!

I seem to remember Michelle having some trouble breastfeeding (I'm remembering inverted nipples for some reason? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) so she pumped? I do wonder what the different Duggars think about this. Have any of them stated what method they used? Jill seems the type to sanctimoniously insist that breast is best, while I would imagine Joy wanting to breastfeed exclusively, but being slightly more pragmatic about the matter. Jinger, in my mind, wouldn't have many qualms about using formula in a pinch. This is all purely speculation based on heavily-edited snippets of their personalities and the ever-reliable gut feeling. I'd be interested to hear their perspectives, though. 

As far as I know none of the married daughters have stated their opinions on nursing versus formula. Jill did seem to nurse Izzy a good deal of time, but that doesn’t indicate she’s militant about every women needing to nurse.

9 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

So I actually wrote my capstone on black women and breastfeeding during undergrad and it really opened my eyes just like how for example how they would want help to BF but there would have no assistance to approach this. I personally have always thought regardless just feed your baby but it really made me realize I didn't know just how upsetting it can be for some women to not be able to BF.

I nursed/pumped and used formula for the first three months before giving it up for just the formula. I know I did what was best for me and my family, but I still occasionally feel guilty and kind of sad. I wish I had been able to carry my baby to term because it would have eliminated some of the biggest obstacles I had when trying to nurse - low birth weight, NICU stay, panic attacks, not being able to get the hang of nursing, etc. I’m grateful my baby is so healthy and pretty on track developmentally given the circumstances, but I can’t emphasize enough that you’re correct in stating it can be very upsetting when it’s something you really want to do and it doesn’t work out. 

I think the whole “breast is best” mantra can be pretty harmful to be honest. I understand the reason why some activists have become more militant and vocal - it sucks that women have been discriminated against or judged for nursing in public or nursing at all and the US does have a long way to go to become more family friendly on a lot of issues, including breastfeeding. But constantly insisting “breast is best” completely ignores the very real problems a lot of women have when trying to breastfeed and it can be a pretty damaging message at times. 

[Rosalie]

In Norway, the militant nursing police does not have as big impact as they used to, and the national guidelines say that if a birthing woman says she will not breastfeed, no questions should be asked and the nurses should offer supplement for her to give the newborn baby.

I do not have any children, but friends of mine having trouble breastfeeding, but really wanting to, had good experience using a supplmental nursing system, like this one:  http://www.mumzworld.com/en/medela-supplemental-nursing-system

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, kachuu said:

Also, on the flip side of having a reduction, does having really small boobs affect your milk supply? I feel like i might not have enough. I keep waiting for mine to pop out like stripper boobs, but nothing!

I was an A-cup. When my milk came in, I was a DD when engorged. I made PLENTY of milk.

[victoriasponge]

On 22/01/2018 at 5:44 PM, LittleOwl said:

There are lots of affordable builds out in the suburbs of Nottingham at the moment. I'm considering trying to get on the property ladder back home in Notts rather than near London where I need to sell my soul to afford a garden shed. 

Yeah, my grandparents live there so I know the area well (and will have a base to search from). So much cheaper than my native Brighton, even if I love that city to pieces. It'll be a few years before I'm in a position for that, though, so we'll see what the situation is like then. Grandad is trying to convince me to move to Market Harborough because he loves it there 

I will miss the beach though...

Edit: And I was bottlefed because I was born not breathing properly and was put in an incubator which meant by the time I got out a day or two later, I was not latching properly. I was starving and could not get milk. The nurses made mum feel like a failure, refused to get her the bottles etc. It wasn't until dad made them that they got it. She was in hysterical tears apparently. Screw those nurses. 1996, should have been more sensitive by then.

[Glasgowghirl]

18 minutes ago, victoriasponge said:

Edit: And I was bottlefed because I was born not breathing properly and was put in an incubator which meant by the time I got out a day or two later, I was not latching properly. I was starving and could not get milk. The nurses made mum feel like a failure, refused to get her the bottles etc. It wasn't until dad made them that they got it. She was in hysterical tears apparently. Screw those nurses. 1996, should have been more sensitive by then.

My sister with both kids was offered a choice of brands of formula, she told them she wasn't breastfeeding and they said that was her choice and didn't judge her.

The hospital and any hospital that doesn't support parents feeding their babies how they choose to, especially if breastfeeding is not working out should be ashamed of themselves. I know their are guidelines on not promoting baby milk and that breast is best is to be promoted but parents should never be shamed.

[melon]

3 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

Oh for fuck's sake. I know several women who wanted to exclusively breastfeed but couldn't. Whether it was due to health issues, or not producing enough milk, or one stubborn baby that outright refused to latch on under any circumstances, they wanted to, but they couldn't. So they chose to have a well-fed, healthy baby instead of starving the child for the sake of an ideal. I can't really say anything else that hasn't been said by someone before me- fed is best!

I seem to remember Michelle having some trouble breastfeeding (I'm remembering inverted nipples for some reason? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) so she pumped? I do wonder what the different Duggars think about this. Have any of them stated what method they used? Jill seems the type to sanctimoniously insist that breast is best, while I would imagine Joy wanting to breastfeed exclusively, but being slightly more pragmatic about the matter. Jinger, in my mind, wouldn't have many qualms about using formula in a pinch. This is all purely speculation based on heavily-edited snippets of their personalities and the ever-reliable gut feeling. I'd be interested to hear their perspectives, though. 

In one of their books,Michelle said she wanted very much to bf.Jackson was the first one she bfed ,successfully.With Josie,being a micro preemie,she pumped,more than likely Josie was fed with a tube,at first.Anna breastfeeds and Jessa did or maybe still does.Sapphire Slytherin...I'm a 38D,I had to order a 40E bra...one of my most embarassing moments.Plus,Mr Melon took a picture of me sleeping with my fully engorged breasts(I had a nightgown on)..those suckers were standing out!LOL.There was a woman that worked with us,she pumped her milk exclusively.I believe by law,in my state,they had to allow her to do that if she desired.She told me her inlaws were keeping the baby while she worked,and REFUSED to give the baby the breastmilk she pumped.They gave her formula.Yes,she was fed.I just want to say that women who bf or pump can and do receive opposition,too.

 

[Melbelle]

Thanks everyone for posting their breastfeeding experiences!  I'm expecting in April and the biggest internal conflict I have is whether or not to breastfeed.  I do not want to BF, my breasts are a bit of an emotional trigger for me and the thought of a baby attached to them is horrifying to me.  I'm considering pumping and supplementing, but even pumping does not appeal to me.  However, I also want to ensure that my child has everything he needs and I want to make the right decisions for him. 

So in light of this, I have spent an obscene amount of time researching bf studies.  I'm finishing up a degree, so I have access to my college's academic databases (I'm not getting a medical degree, but I can access those databases) and I've read through some bf studies.  When one drills down into the studies that many breastfeeding advocates refer to one quickly realizes that the studies are...I think incomplete might be the best word.  The biggest flaw in the majority of the studies is that the women that they are able to study tend to be white, middle-class and upwards in socio-economic status, and well-educated.  Because of this it's hard to determine if the children are better because they were breastfeed or if because the kids have better life circumstances, like quality healthcare, better educated parents and better education opportunities themselves, etc.  Basically the studies show some correlation, that could be accounted for due to the privilege of the study participants, but almost no causation.  Like @candygirl200413 mentioned, I've also noticed in my research that minority women and woman from lower socio-economic backgrounds are discouraged from BF or are in a position where BF is not feasible because they do not have the opportunity to take sufficient maternity leave and they often do not work in places that have accommodations for pumping, etc.  

So I've come to the conclusion that fed is definitely best, the evidence that bf is the end-all, be-all is just not as obvious as people act like it is, and no matter what every child deserves a happy, healthy mother.  I'm purchasing formula to have in the event we formula feed and I'm purchasing a few breastfeeding supplies in the event that I decide at the time that I want to give it a go.  If I do BF I'll donate the formula and if I decide not to BF, I've also spent the last few months practicing good, snotty, snarky comebacks for anyone that utters a judgmental word to me about it!   

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, melon said:

In one of their books,Michelle said she wanted very much to bf.Jackson was the first one she bfed ,successfully.With Josie,being a micro preemie,she pumped,more than likely Josie was fed with a tube,at first.Anna breastfeeds and Jessa did or maybe still does.Sapphire Slytherin...I'm a 38D,I had to order a 40E bra...one of my most embarassing moments.Plus,Mr Melon took a picture of me sleeping with my fully engorged breasts(I had a nightgown on)..those suckers were standing out!LOL.There was a woman that worked with us,she pumped her milk exclusively.I believe by law,in my state,they had to allow her to do that if she desired.She told me her inlaws were keeping the baby while she worked,and REFUSED to give the baby the breastmilk she pumped.They gave her formula.Yes,she was fed.I just want to say that women who bf or pump can and do receive opposition,too.

 

Her in laws are assholes to do that, I would have been a pissed if someone done that to me after I had took the time to pump milk. People seem to forget that breasts were designed to feed babies, now that they have been sexulised, people freak out if someone feeds in public.

[Irishy]

I breastfed four babies for at least a year each. They got the odd bottle of formula because I was too lazy to pump. It was a privilege to be able to do it. If you can, and want to, I recommend it purely for the bonding experience. It’s phenonemal. If you have the luxury of choice.

 

As far as baby friendly hospitals etc, and banning formula, I do understand. Formula companies have aggressive marketing techniques designed to undermine brand new mothers at their most vulnerable. It can be easier to perservere when no other option at hand, and often mums are glad there wasn’t. Obviously there are exceptions to this.

 

Breastfeeding rates are so low in the western world because it is a lost art. It’s a tricky thing to get right. And our mothers, aunts, sisters and grandmothers often have no experience. Today’s new mums are on their own. 

 

Just my my two cents as there are those reading here weighing up their options. 

[VelociRapture]

 

27 minutes ago, Irishy said:

I breastfed four babies for at least a year each. They got the odd bottle of formula because I was too lazy to pump. It was a privilege to be able to do it. If you can, and want to, I recommend it purely for the bonding experience. It’s phenonemal. If you have the luxury of choice.

 

As far as baby friendly hospitals etc, and banning formula, I do understand. Formula companies have aggressive marketing techniques designed to undermine brand new mothers at their most vulnerable. It can be easier to perservere when no other option at hand, and often mums are glad there wasn’t. Obviously there are exceptions to this.

 

Breastfeeding rates are so low in the western world because it is a lost art. It’s a tricky thing to get right. And our mothers, aunts, sisters and grandmothers often have no experience. Today’s new mums are on their own. 

 

Just my my two cents as there are those reading here weighing up their options. 

Nursing can be a wonderful bonding experience for some moms. It wasn’t for me because neither of us enjoyed the experience, but I think it’s awesome when it’s such a positive experience for moms and babies.

That said, Kangaroo Care is a fantastic way for any parent to bond with their baby and you can do it regardless of whether you choose to nurse or not. The NICU Nurses who cared for my daughter were very big believers in it and did their best to help new parents give it a try. It’s been shown to help preemies a great deal, but is also a great way to help any parent bond with their newborn.

Personally, I loved doing Kangaroo Care with my daughter and I enjoyed it way more than I did breastfeeding. I spent around three or four hours holding her like that during one NICU visit - I didn’t want to put her down because it was one of the only times I finally felt completely calm since having to leave the Hospital without her. For anyone interested:

[ven]

I am a proud bottle feeder ! From the first minute .Happy well fed babies who actually slept from day one . I am quite militant tho and had the "do not even try to talk me into anything else " aura when i entered the hospital . I also took the epidural with a smile , and even asked my gyn to stitch up things as elegant as he could ;). Never felt guilty . Only comments i got was uh oh you really want to actually step out of bed to do the night feedings ? Breast is sooo much easier... . I exactly know what my babies ate , that it was free of all contaminations etc. The WHO stimulates breastfeeding as primary food source in third world countries. Well i am not living in that part of the world ... my children are rarely sick and very thriving , what a scam ...

[Fascinated]

My two cents, having only been successful breastfeeding one third of my children.  I found no difference in bonding with my babies who were bottle fed. Other than not being attached to the breast, in my experience the positioning and feeding procedure was otherwise the same.  *shrug*.  Is there any other issue that creates such worry for a new mother that she ‘isn’t doing it right?’.  

My husband was able to bond more quickly with the bottle fed babies, too, which was nice for everyone. Ugh.  The whole subject makes me angry. 

[melon]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Her in laws are assholes to do that, I would have been a pissed if someone done that to me after I had took the time to pump milk. People seem to forget that breasts were designed to feed babies, now that they have been sexulised, people freak out if someone feeds in public.

I agree.I would have been utterly pissed if that had been done to me.

[Meggo]

20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

Nursing can be a wonderful bonding experience for some moms. It wasn’t for me because neither of us enjoyed the experience, but I think it’s awesome when it’s such a positive experience for moms and babies.

That said, Kangaroo Care is a fantastic way for any parent to bond with their baby and you can do it regardless of whether you choose to nurse or not. The NICU Nurses who cared for my daughter were very big believers in it and did their best to help new parents give it a try. It’s been shown to help preemies a great deal, but is also a great way to help any parent bond with their newborn.

Personally, I loved doing Kangaroo Care with my daughter and I enjoyed it way more than I did breastfeeding. I spent around three or four hours holding her like that during one NICU visit - I didn’t want to put her down because it was one of the only times I finally felt completely calm since having to leave the Hospital without her. For anyone interested:

 

Ahem - Adoptive Mom getting on soap box. If you decide NOT to breastfeed your child - don't feel like you won't still bond with the little one. I'm plenty bonded to my little Waffle (although he is nearly five and sassy). There is no "right" way.
(off soap box) (also disclaimer - not saying anyone WAS saying that you wouldn't bond - but just go with your gut - you've got this Momma.)

AND - just to chime in on kangaroo care? IT's the BOMB. In the NICU - they also gave us warmed flannel blankies and it was heaven. Also a bonus for Daddies to get in on the cuddly, bonding time too. My husband acts all tough - but he was ALL about it. (the flannel blankies helped)

[MargaretElliott]

On a slightly more humorous note, when I was a wee bab, my mother pumped because she had to go back to work... leaving her unlabeled breast milk in containers in the fridge... apparently human milk tastes really good on cereal, as my dad accidentally discovered. He was horrified. She laughed her ass off.