Kendra and Joe Duggar 8: Expecting the Expected (a Boy)

[Knight of Ni]

Yes to me it seems like they receive almost the same type of education as Chinese children receive in their public schools. I read an interesting article about a man who taught in China and his view of their school system is that it is based on regurgitating facts. Very little attention is given to developing critical thinking. So the Duggars May be able to state that a historical event happened but won’t be able to talk about how it affected different groups of people, why it happened etc. They won’t be able to apply previous knowledge to work out a problem. They won’t be able to critically analyze a work of literature, art, or scientific journal. Being able to think critically is a lot different than memorizing facts. So yes, the Duggars did receive an education but they missed out on so much. 

[freshlemonade]

7 hours ago, ladybug15 said:

Its weird though, that she has so many organics products and then there is Johnson and Johnson. Usually that's the first thing people remove when they go the organic route.

That pink Johnson & Johnson baby lotion is a Duggar staple.  She probably felt like she had to put that on there to appease Joe's side.  

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Please, in NO WAY am I defending them! But there curriculum (they used SOS--Switched on Schoolhouse--not only the stupid wisdom books) met every state standard. It is essentially the normal alternative school, self-paced curriculum with Bible added.

I'm wondering when they started using it, though.  I don't think they had much money before TLC came along (rice three ways) and they needed to have both the software and computers to use SOS.  I suspect the older kids had more time for "school" but didn't have the resources and the younger had the resources but were too busy being filmed and travelling all over the place to learn consistently.

[lizzybee]

We use Babyganics products and while I'm sure there are better products, we've been pretty happy with them. I use their shampoo, lotion, bugspray, and sunscreen for my son and will for baby #2 as well. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

11 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I'm wondering when they started using it, though.  I don't think they had much money before TLC came along (rice three ways) and they needed to have both the software and computers to use SOS.  I suspect the older kids had more time for "school" but didn't have the resources and the younger had the resources but were too busy being filmed and travelling all over the place to learn consistently.

They've had computers since the first special. Buy used, remember. They've always used it. I think they may use a different product now. I've seen the curriculum. It meets all state requirements.  Remember, young actors, working, young figure skaters and gymnasts--all use that sort of thing as the basic curriculum (not that exact one) --work at your own pace, mastery-based. Juve prisons use that sort of thing, too. The Duggar kids are not as dumb or badly educated as their local vernacular speech makes you think!  It's just very hard for educated people, people who value higher education, to accept that not everyone thinks its a big deal (very true for me). But there ARE all kinds of VERY successful "small" [independent] business people out there with no MBAs. Jim-Bob is one. I don't like what he's done but it's savvy--he supports them! lol  Famewhoring pays. So does all that real estate, that cell phone tower, the towing company and whatever else!  You just have to keep working and you have to fund your own benefits. I have several friends with multiple businesses and they do well.  I have two college degrees and still rent at 55!

[Daisy0322]

23 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

We use Babyganics products and while I'm sure there are better products, we've been pretty happy with them. I use their shampoo, lotion, bugspray, and sunscreen for my son and will for baby #2 as well. 

Preach! I buy whatever is on sale, no shame. We're a one income family, that's how we make ends meet. Fancy products that you get to pick between is a luxury at this point in our lives.

[lizzybee]

I'll just throw out there too that when I was teaching, I worked for a while at an alternative high school for the county. You could be sent there for behavior or electively choose to go there over regular school. Anyway, the set up there was similar to homeschool but in a classroom. Your work was online or a set written curriculum. You worked at your own pace, tested and finished at your own pace.

My primary job was to help one on one if needed and to administer tests/quizzes. When I was in high school I did a few summer school classes at an education center that was available for year round schooling and they had the same work at your own pace schooling. I tested until I passed. 

ANYWAY, homeschooling can be just like that or neglectful depending on the students and the parents. I plan to homeschool my children, but I have a friend who homeschooled while her parents went to work and she said all they did was cheat off each other to get done and there was no oversight. I love her but I can say for sure that it's very obvious she wasn't adequately educated and she doesn't have a GED. On the other hand, I my lifelong best-friend was homeschooled from 7-12th grade and has a master's degree. It really is just as mixed a bag as public school. You get what you put into it. 

[Dandruff]

9 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

But there ARE all kinds of VERY successful "small" [independent] business people out there with no MBAs. Jim-Bob is one. I don't like what he's done but it's savvy--he supports them! lol  Famewhoring pays. So does all that real estate, that cell phone tower, the towing company and whatever else!  You just have to keep working and you have to fund your own benefits. I have several friends with multiple businesses and they do well.  I have two college degrees and still rent at 55!

I agree that there isn't a 100% correlation between education level and success.  My impression has always been that Jim Bob has a strong, innate business sense and the personality to put his ideas into action.  He also went to a private, Christian school, though I don't know how much that helped.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, Dandruff said:

I agree that there isn't a 100% correlation between education level and success.

Success really hinges on two things:  drive and grit. That rare "entrepreneurial" person is the one who is wildly successful, regardless of background. It's an innate, uncommon trait.

[ladybug15]

36 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

We use Babyganics products and while I'm sure there are better products, we've been pretty happy with them. I use their shampoo, lotion, bugspray, and sunscreen for my son and will for baby #2 as well. 

no questions asked or judgement. I Was just surprised to have J&J there on the list along with babyganics. As if they cant decide which way to go. Whatever works for your family is good for you. I just found that glaring.

 

[tabitha2]

Jim Bob is dumb like a Fox. 

[VineHeart137]

40 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

We use Babyganics products and while I'm sure there are better products, we've been pretty happy with them. I use their shampoo, lotion, bugspray, and sunscreen for my son and will for baby #2 as well. 

Same, I try and buy the safest products I can but honestly a lot of the time those products are either really expensive or not readily available in my area. My go-to is Honest Company products, Target carries them and they're not super pricy.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

30 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Success really hinges on two things:  drive and grit. That rare "entrepreneurial" person is the one who is wildly successful, regardless of background. It's an innate, uncommon trait.

There are several very successful people who do not have post high school education, but they are few and far between. Like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet type successful. You can probably count on 1 or 2 hands the number of people who  have reached this level of success in the business world with out already being 3/4 of the way there already (ala Trump, Dubya, Romney).

[SapphireSlytherin]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

There are several very successful people who do not have post high school education, but they are few and far between. Like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet type successful. You can probably count on 1 or 2 hands the number of people who  have reached this level of success in the business world with out already being 3/4 of the way there already (ala Trump, Dubya, Romney).

Right. I should have said "personal success" or something similar to that. Being born into money makes it much easier; one wouldn't necessarily need grit and drive to make more money. And generally (I can think of a few examples - including those you've named above) who aren't really all that successful on their own, but they're successful in spite of themselves.

[CorruptionInc.]

1 hour ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

They've had computers since the first special. Buy used, remember. 

Yes they had older computers running windows 98 or 95 in 2004? They had a few but can't remember all exact facts. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I guess I see Jim-Bob's success in these terms. He paid cash for that house--yes he did. He'd have finished it, just at a much slower rate, without t.v. They'd have simply done another deal and gotten another "rent house" and lived there.  I don't agree with much that he's done, but he is willing to take risks and a lot of us really aren't. He put his family's security in his hands--not in those of an employer. That's pretty big. No he's not Bill Gates--the product Gates helped develp changed the way the world runs. That's once in a century. But Jim-Bob was raising umpteen kids with NO DEBT. None. Yes, you can quibble and say the leases on property are debt, but think about that for a while. No student loans. No car payment, no mortgage. And they paid cash or went without. That's a lot of frozen burritos eaten and a lot of really ugly used Crocs worn, but they did it.

Now, as for the t.v. gig. Bargain with the devil.

4 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Yes they had older computers running windows 98 or 95 in 2004? They had a few but can't remember all exact facts. 

They had a room full--you see them in the specials.

[Gillyweed]

This is slightly off topic, but seeing Bill Gates made me think of it:

Bill Gates and Gil Bates basically have the same name. But, oh, what different lives they lead. 

[RubyRei]

I die a little inside every time I hear about bad homeschooling experiences/techniques!

I had terrible anxiety as a child (still do) and was also “gifted” and thus utterly bored by public school curriculum. Homeschooling was a total godsend. I homeschooled from 2nd-4th grade and not only did my mom provide me with a great curriculum, we also played learning games, went on field trips to museums and such, were involved in a homeschool group, did homeschool PE with that group, and I did 4H where I learned about sewing/quilting, etiquette (lol), water waste, did mini-society, participated in the 4H fair, did a class on electricity, and so much more. We even had a certified science teacher come and do fun presentations for us. I also got to homeschool with my best friend often where we would get all of our work done in a few hours and were able to spend the rest of the day playing!

That is all to say that homeschooling was a precious and invaluable experience for me. In fact, when I went back to school in 5th grade, I went to a private Christian  school that was 6th-12th, but they put me in with the 6th graders. I was ahead of most of my class in math and I earned the highest score on our Latin final in the entire school (32 kids, all older than me). None of this is to brag, but rather to show just how amazing homeschooling can be. 

Only downside? I was a Jew surrounded by Christians, which did take a toll on me.

Upside? I was the only person in my Bible class to tell my teacher it didn’t make sense that our “all loving God” would send gay people to hell. I’m sure he loved having contentious debates with an 11 year old!

Now, I’m an atheist with nothing but complete affection for my experiences which I recognize I was so so privileged to have 

ETA: SORRY I TALK A LOT Y’ALL!!!!

[lizzybee]

@RubyRei your homeschool experience was a lot like my good friend's with the master's degree I mentioned above. It was what made me decide I wanted to homeschool. She had SO many homeschool friends, went on cool field trips with them weekly, played on a homeschool softball team, slept in and was still done with school before lunch. She did dance almost every night of the week along with being part of youth group. I was so jealous of her, I begged to be homeschooled too! Her social and extracurricular life was way better than mine! 

Anyway, at least I can give that to my kids. I am really looking forward to joining the homeschool community in my area, I follow them on social media and it looks like they do a lot of fun things together. 

[RubyRei]

@lizzybee I think that’s awesome! It’s definitely a commitment but if it was anything like your friend’s or my experience, your children will thank you for it!

And just as important is listening to your child if they want to stop, or at least discussing it with them. When I made the choice to stop homeschooling, my mom respected it and let me go. Private school was great for me.

 In all fairness though, public middle and high school definitely ripped my soul to shreds. The craziness of it all just made my anxiety worse and led to crazy depression... so maybe I didn’t make the best choice there but everyone is different 

[rainbowbabycakes]

I got a really good deal on Babyganics wipes once when my son was little, but I used them on my face a couple of times, and  had an allergic reaction to them. It was weird... but my skin is kind of wonlky

[lizzybee]

Yeeeah, so I got a packet of wipes (so I thought) in a gift package of Babyganics with DS1. After we'd used them a couple of times, my husband happened to read the label and the ones we had were definitely not baby wipes. They were bottle and high chair wipes and not intended for baby's bum. No reaction from baby, thank goodness, but definitely not my proudest moment of motherhood. 

[jozina]

On 2/22/2018 at 11:27 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

She's probably one of those that just thinks organic sounds better instead of actually researching what's in her products. 

Maybe they don't care much either way. If you looked at my kids' toiletries there's a mix of organic, Johnson and Johnson's, Lush and who knows what else.  I think organic is almost total bunk but if a product smells nice, my kids like it and it does the job? Brilliant.  As long as it doesn't make some totally ridiculous claim on the bottle (eg "Chemical free!") then I'm no more or less likely to buy it if it says organic.

[CancerBomb]

Unless something has been known to cause cancer, I don't care about "organic" or "chemical free" labels. I care more about whether or not it was tested on animals and whether or not it works, and the price tag. Organic literally means containing carbon, which 99.99% of products do, and the 0.01% of products without carbon usually cannot be found outside a hospital. 

[HermioneSparrow]

I love reading about your good homeschooling experiences... I was heavily bullied at Private School, at some point it was so bad the teachers suggested to sent me homework and I could get schooled at home even though homeschooling is illegal in Latin America. My mom rejected that, she wanted me to be resilient but it didn't worked... Eventually I had to change schools and it all got better but I was shy and always trying not to get noticed so I had no social life.

Really wish I was homeschooled, some kids are meant to be educated at home and it's a great thing.