Jinger 32: Light into the Darkness According to Jeremy

[Hashtag Blessed]

@Fundie Bunny @singsingsing Yes I forgot that it is all just unimportant hand waving compared to the real focus of Twilight: Hot(cold) Sparkly Vampire Peen.

[calimojo]

All the Vamps From True Blood were able to have erections also.  If I remember from the books, they do have circulating blood, but it is the blood from their victims. According  the author of that series, sex with a Vampire was supposed to be unforgettably amazing.  

[TheMustardCardigan]

Probably unpopular opinion here, I actually didn't really enjoy Heathers. I didn't really know much about it going in--- just that it was an 80s movie about high schoolers. 'Maybe similar to Mean Girls,' I thought to myself as I settled into bed after a long day in law school. Boy, I was wrong! I think the school violence aspect of it just weighed on me too heavily in this day and age but had I been alive when it first came out and saw it then, I probably would have enjoyed it.

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

Probably unpopular opinion here, I actually didn't really enjoy Heathers. I didn't really know much about it going in--- just that it was an 80s movie about high schoolers. 'Maybe similar to Mean Girls,' I thought to myself as I settled into bed after a long day in law school. Boy, I was wrong! I think the school violence aspect of it just weighed on me too heavily in this day and age but had I been alive when it first came out and saw it then, I probably would have enjoyed it.

I've never seen Heathers, but I (whispers) really didn't like The Breakfast Club. Combined with my aversion to Game of Thrones, I'm honestly surprised the mob hasn't broken down my door yet.  I make up for it by loving all kinds of other super popular things like Harry Potter, Jane Austen, and Stranger Things, though! plz don't kill me.

[Beermeet]

Yes,  seeing some of the 80's movies as an adult; they are rapey.  16 Candles had rape.  Jake is pissed at his GF so he let's the dork rape her.  Then they show her the next morning liking it.  Riiiight.  Back to the future.....why isn't rapey Biff in jail?  Dude is unhinged, but, it's cool he's just a bully type.

A bunch of this stuff would never fly today.

[feministxtian]

Y'all are talking about movies I've never seen, books I've never read and never been interested in...around here, movie quotes come from Blazing Saddles or just about any other Mel Brooks movie, various Star Trek incarnations, Armageddon, or other Bruce Willis movies. 

I know...I'm the weird one. It's ok. 

[nickelodeon]

Pretty In Pink is my fave of the Brat Pack movies, because I love the fashion, the music, and Harry Dean Stanton. Meanwhile 16 Candles is my least favorite. The racism and sexual assault scene really gross me out. The others fall somewhere in between.

[Bugaboo]

Let us praise Rufus that JinJer made it one year with no baby announcement!! 

[church_of_dog]

45 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Y'all are talking about movies I've never seen, books I've never read and never been interested in...around here, movie quotes come from Blazing Saddles or just about any other Mel Brooks movie, various Star Trek incarnations, Armageddon, or other Bruce Willis movies. 

I know...I'm the weird one. It's ok. 

Not so weird as to not have company; namely, me!  I haven’t read/seen any of these recently mentioned, and probably won’t as they just don’t interest me.  (although a few years ago I did watch “Mean Girls” just to learn what all the references meant!  And I’m currently checking out Doctor Who for the same reasons...)

And yet, if you asked what I have seen, it’s not like I wouldn’t have a list.  (at least if we were talking about movies prior to about 1990 — I did more or less stop following pop culture at that time...)

 

[seashell1025]

10 minutes ago, Bugaboo said:

Let us praise Rufus that JinJer made it one year with no baby announcement!! 

Ayymen! Never thought this day would come! lol

[calimojo]

The John Hughes films  (16 Candles, Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller, etc) were all focused on white, mostly upper middle class to outright wealth, and totally captured the moment of time they came from. 

WE all recognized that most of us didn't live in that bubble, but there was something sort of reassuring to see this layer upper middle class midwestern culture come to life. 

But when you really look at them now,  they really are a microcosm of societal dysfunction that we used to view as normal, and now  realize is wrong.

 

16 Candles:  The snooty bitch gets drunk and therefore is deserving of being taken advantage of.  Anthony Michael Hall's character doesn't end up having sex with her, IIRC, but he likely makes out with her etc.  The Asian exchange student is the butt of many jokes and terribly stereotyping.  Nearly absent lack of color in the cast and more.  Jake, and his desire to be with an innocent girl, who needs his protection.... Sound familiar?

Ferris Bueller:  Probably the most disturbing is when incest is played for laughs.  Ferris pretends to be Sloane's Dad when he picks her up from school.  When she gets to the car he kisses her very sexually.  The Principal ( an actor who I believe was actually convicted of sex crimes years later), just sort of smirks and says 'Oh, so that's how it is in their house!"  And then walks away.  So  School official witnesses what appears to be an incestuous kiss and just finds it 'interesting' and walks away. 

Later, Ferris's sister is home alone after school when someone tries to break into the house ( the Principal, looking to catch Ferris).  She calls the cops, clearly terrified, fearful of robbery or bodily harm and rape.  She is completely ignored, and has to go to the police and gets in trouble for filing a false claim.  Her parents completely buy the Police version of it and assume the daughter is just being dramatic. 

 

I enjoyed and to be honest, still do enjoy these movies.  They have clever writing, and just enough realism, that there are aspects that many of us relate to.  They captured the angst and the ridiculousness of high school.  The palpable insecurity of Molly Ringwald in 16 Candles was perfect. 

Ferris captures that arrogance of youth, in thinking they know it all, that they are always the smartest in the room, yet somehow there is an acknowledgment that their Disney Land life is not as perfect as it seems on the outside, and that they are now in their glory days of easy money, no responsibility, etc. 

 

Not that I want to give a pass to the Harvey Weinstein's of the world, but when you watch these and many other older TV shows and movies, you can see that so much of this was just part of the culture that it wasn't viewed as aberrant.  Getting a woman drunk in order to have sex with her, was a pretty 'acceptable' thing to do.  And that theme has been played out in many films through out film history.  Men and Women were socialized in this culture.  So when we ask why are Men all jerks, a la Weinstein, Spacey, etc.  Remember for years we laughed at Sam Malone from Cheers as he constantly harassed females who worked for him, or who came to his bar.  We laughed at Hawkeye and Trapper John when they harassed and often Humiliated "Hot Lips" Houlihan, We saw Hawkeye grope countless nurses and saw him as lovable.   We laughed in the movie Animal House when the guy has the drunk girl passed out, and he has an 'angel' and 'devil' on his shoulder guiding him as he debates having sex with an unconscious  woman.   And when we ask why victims/survivors of harassment and abuse stayed quiet, we have to understand that for many of us, it was viewed as a rite of passage.  It was something that in some situations you expected, and you could laugh it off, ignore it, survive it, and in some cases learn to use it to your advantage.  Sometimes making the deal with the devil, allowed you to feel like you were less victimized, and more in control. 

 

Ugh, sorry, that turned dark!

 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

24 minutes ago, Bugaboo said:

Let us praise Rufus that JinJer made it one year with no baby announcement!! 

A part of me is holding my breath with this because the day's not over yet. Some kind of an announcement could still happen.

Still, I'm having fun coming up with ways for non pregnant Jinger to celebrate her wedding anniversary. Morning espresso, followed by horseback riding, a surf and turf dinner with wine pairings, and hot tubbing on a private deck. She will do this while wearing skinny jeans, except the hot tub part, when she'll wear something that definitely isn't Wholesome Wear.

[Beermeet]

@calimojo. I agree.  It was normal for us back then.  I mean I didn't view thise movies the way I do now, then.  And, I don't hate them, they are a part of 80's culture that I grew up with.  Which is a bit confusing.  Also, the dork and Jake's gf did IT.  I recently watched, it's more then implied.  They were so drunk they don't know for sure but are ok with it if they did.  She even says she has a feeling she liked it.  Ew.

[calimojo]

16 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

@calimojo. I agree.  It was normal for us back then.  I mean I didn't view thise movies the way I do now, then.  And, I don't hate them, they are a part of 80's culture that I grew up with.  Which is a bit confusing.  Also, the dork and Jake's gf did IT.  I recently watched, it's more then implied.  They were so drunk they don't know for sure but are ok with it if they did.  She even says she has a feeling she liked it.  Ew.

Ewww is right.  She was supposed to be 17-18?  And he was 14?  By the looks of him, I doubt he had scruff on his testicles yet.  He was not a mature looking 14 year old. 

Don't forget that earlier,  Sam gives Ted her undies so he can 'prove' to his friends that he nailed her, and she does this because Ted tells her he knows Jake and can help  her meet him.  So now we have a sexual exchange/brokering event.  She knowingly trades a 'pretend' sex act, in order for an advantage in another way.  So her power, comes only from what she has to offer sexually, even if it is just pretend. 

 

Ugh, the more I think about it, the more the I am truly disturbed by this movie, which has long been a sentimental favorite of mine.  Molly Ringwald's character always reminded me of me.  I had red hair and freckles.  I was a middle, compliant and non-troubling child and my older and younger siblings got more attention.  I was on the cusp of the in crowd, but not fully secure in that knowledge. 

Ok, I thought of one more "teen" movie that is more recent.  The DUFF.  I thought that was pretty decent.  I haven't dissected it yet though.  Easy A is a fun one too.  But definitely promotes a conscious decision by the lead to trade off on her sexual reputation but she  does it more from a position of personal power I suppose. 

[PennySycamore]

One of the most famous rape turning into love scenes was in the TV soap opera General Hospital when Luke Spence raped Laura Webber.  There were some people that called that one out though as just being wrong.

[Bad Wolf]

I used to watch the Dick Van Duke show in England, and thought it was hilarious. I saw one the other day, where Laura had locked herself in the bathroom. Dick said, " It's my house and my door. " Kind of makes me cringe now, but I was totally smitten by him at the time. 

Disclaimer: the preceding was for old people only.

[Beermeet]

10 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

One of the most famous rape turning into love scenes was in the TV soap opera General Hospital when Luke Spence raped Laura Webber.  There were some people that called that one out though as just being wrong.

What???!!!  That's how they started out?!  I was a Days of our Lives girl but, everyone knows about Luke and Laura.  Whaaaat??!!!!

[apandaaries]

@calimojo I totally agree about many of these points.  I was recently thinking of the Harvey Weinstein stuff and also of Helen Gurley Brown's Sex and the Single Girl, where she explicitly tells women that they can and should use their sexual power to their advantage. She doesn't necessarily tell women to sleep their way to the top (at least from what I can recall in that book, though I also know that she had many other controversial quotes and books as she went on), but benefiting from the lay of the land and using it to one's advantage was something she discussed and encouraged. Flirtations and suggestions were just more skills to deploy to get what one wanted. Of course, sexual assault and harassment weren't on the radar at all at that point, and when it was published, women still had to have permission from a husband or father to have a credit card and marital rape didn't exist, so...

Recently watched The Breakfast Club with my kid and saw shocked to remember that the nerd with the gun in his locker to commit suicide had gotten Saturday detention to help with his problems.  Things were so different then.

@TheMustardCardigan Heathers definitely feels different now, compared with its debut.  I still love parts of it due to nostalgia, but the ending... It's too much nowadays.  But the 80s and part of the 90s featured the occasional artistic creation which would end with major school violence. I'm trying to recall the music videos that ended that way, because there were a couple. 

Times change.  Things that were acceptable just a few years ago are now shocking and disturbing.  I suppose that's why our current administration is trying so desperately to turn the clocks back several decades -- their power was close to absolute back then. 

 

22 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

One of the most famous rape turning into love scenes was in the TV soap opera General Hospital when Luke Spence raped Laura Webber.  There were some people that called that one out though as just being wrong.

My mom watched Days of our Lives, but my aunt and cousins were General Hospital fans.  I still remember hearing about that fucked-uped-ness.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, nickelodeon said:

Meanwhile 16 Candles is my least favorite. The racism and sexual assault scene really gross me out. The others fall somewhere in between.

Ugh, yes. Hate that movie. Also, as a tall girl, it gave me a major complex for a while. 

[Beermeet]

@amandaaries. ( and um diaries....lol!)  Omg!  Yes, that part with gun. His parents don't give a shit either, he's in trouble at home. Can you even imagine now?  Eek.  

[calimojo]

5 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

@calimojo I totally agree about many of these points.  I was recently thinking of the Harvey Weinstein stuff and also of Helen Gurley Brown's Sex and the Single Girl@TheMustardCardigan, where she explicitly tells women that they can and should use their sexual power to their advantage. She doesn't necessarily tell women to sleep their way to the top (at least from what I can recall in that book, though I also know that she had many other controversial quotes and books as she went on), but benefiting from the lay of the land and using it to one's advantage was something she discussed and encouraged. Flirtations and suggestions were just more skills to deploy to get what one wanted.

 

I think part of HGB's assertions were also that women shouldn't be ashamed of their sexuality.  That to be sexual being was normal.  This was in the time, when it was assumed that women didn't really enjoy sex, and only engaged in it as a contract of marriage and for procreation.  HGB and others of that time, were empowering women to own their sexuality, not in shame but as natural.  And yes,  there was probably a slant to it of if "men can use sex as a bargaining chip, then women can as well".   

 

We have made strides, in that only the most backward and fundie types believe women as a whole, don't enjoy sex.  And women are able to be shown as sexual beings, who enjoy and even initiate sex.  Slut shaming still happens, but I think it is more the norm to be accepting of the fact that most women have had more than one partner. 

What I find interesting though are more subtle ways that culture shows a lack of progress.  The extreme Beauty industry for example.  The emphasis on a woman's value being tied to looking young and slender.  Billions of dollars a year are spent in chasing this.  A mature woman, must not only be self-sufficient, successful, and able to balance work and home, but now she must have six pack abs, and look at least 10 years younger than her actual age.  Mature women, who possess the confidence and life experience are valued most when they are thin and wrinkle free. 

Modern fashion, with its emphasis on Body Con clothing for women,  the push for extreme high heels, and removal of all body hair, etc are all ways to keep women enslaved to their sex.  It is a joke and commonly noted thing that single women have to keep it tight, keep it hair free, and be constantly primping so they are 'sex ready' as defined by popular culture.  Modern women have to be assertive, capable, maternal, gourmet cooks, pinterest home designers, and must trim their pubic hair, and even make sure their ass is looking good as that has now because a huge focus in the modern woman's sexual expectations. 

So, yes, we have made strides, but societal pressures still find ways to keep women off kilter.  We wear shorter skirts, tighter clothing, higher heels and now we are warned not to have 'back fat' or unsightly rolls of fat from your bra, but heaven forbid you don't lift and separate those boobs so they look perky.  Being slender has long been an ideal, but now that isn't enough, now we have to be 'fit'.  Some of this is part of a blended impact of being empowered and yet still valued based on how we look to others. 

It is all very fascinating to me, and I say that as I am finishing up hanging up my Spanx to dry, and making a shopping list for my Target run where I will be buying cosmetics and getting another box of my favorite hair color. 

[VelociRapture]

First of the anniversary posts:

 

[quirkygirlgabbing]

On 11/1/2017 at 5:30 PM, JDuggs said:

If Jeremy had been a black man who had grabbed a police officer in a forceful manner, he might not be here today. That was an extremely stupid thing to do.

Bit late to this one but Oneonta is a pretty chill college town where in the 18-22 year old range are smashed on a fairly regular basis.  Was it dumb, yes, but the cops there are good at guessing who's a dumb person and who's a major threat.  I was going to school 20 minutes away from there the year this occurred.

It's predominantly white in that area of New York.  Had he been black he would've been even easier to identify as a college student.

[apandaaries]

@calimojo Just to clarify, in case it sounded at all shamey about HGB -- she was definitely sex-positive at a time when such ideas were fairly scandalous. And of course, she was married when she published the book and noted several times that her husband encouraged her to write it for the sake of other women...so her sex-positive slant was still within socially acceptable terms, as a married woman. 

Also, she was working to support herself, her (sick? disabled?) sister and her mother.  She truly worked hard and I think her suggestions for women were very much based on the reality of their situations.  HR wouldn't care about sexual harassment (was it even a term at the time?), so she offered ideas about how to best benefit from it while also taking care of oneself (and perhaps one's family, if one were the breadwinner).  She was very much a product of her time, and it's worth noting just how harsh that time happened to be.  She was extreme in many ways, which was also reflected in Cosmo under her authority. 

Make no mistake, though -- I certainly recognize that we've come quite far but still have a huge distance to go.  

[Beermeet]

4 minutes ago, quirkygirlgabbing said:

Bit late to this one but Oneonta is a pretty chill college town where in the 18-22 year old range are smashed on a fairly regular basis.  Was it dumb, yes, but the cops there are good at guessing who's a dumb person and who's a major threat.  I was going to school 20 minutes away from there the year this occurred.

It's predominantly white in that area of New York.  Had he been black he would've been even easier to identify as a college student.

Oneonta?  How did I miss this?  I grew up in NY and that's where the want to party more than anything kids went.  It's nicknamed Stoneonta for a reason!  Oh Jeremy was a legit sex havin' partier for sure!