Joy & Austin 15: Standing for the Fetus

[QuiverDance]

I am very punctual and still not a meticulous planner. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, Meggo said:

I aim to be early to everything - because I hate being late. Would rather sit in the car and gather my thoughts than be rushing in anywhere.



 

I'm the same way. 

[BundleofJoy]

I was raised in a culture where being early was considered rude, and being half an hour late was still too early (so if the party starts at 5:00 PM and you arrive at 5:30 you're still too early). Getting somewhere too early feels like I'm overstaying an invitation in the other direction. Now I live in a very punctual culture, and I'm often confronted with the fact that my idea of punctuality (for example, if the set time for dinner with friends is 6:00 PM, I get there between 6:00 and 6:10, never before 6) and the expectations of punctuality of the people around me are quite different (they will be there between 5:50 and 6, and very occasionally five minutes late).

I tend to feel super rushed when people show up to my house too early, because I'm never ready at exactly the set time (I also have ADHD and planning and organizing and having an idea of how much time an activity will cost are still things i'm figuring out), so I tell people they are explicitly allowed to show up what I call "considerately on time" which translates to ten minutes late. And to ensure that I show up at a time that people around me consider "on time" I ask them to give me a "walk in" time. Say you want to start an activity at 8 PM, most people in the culture I'm currently living in kind of instinctively know that they can arrive about 10-15 minutes early so the activity can start at the set time. But I need to be explicitely told that I am allowed to be there a little early, that I'm not imposing on someone else's time, this is what I call the "walk in" time. Even though I have been living in this punctual culture for nearly 11 years already, it's really hard to let go of cultural notions I was raised with. 

So, my tip for people dealing with lateness due to cultural differences, ask about how being too early/on time/too late is perceived in their culture. And sometimes it means that you have to communicate a little differently, like for me giving me a walk in time. 

[HarleyQuinn]

That blows my mind that a someone could say something starts at 5:00pm, then consider guests arriving at 5:30pm "too early." Why even bring 5:00pm to the table?

[KelseyAnn]

4 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

That blows my mind that a someone could say something starts at 5:00pm, then consider guests arriving at 5:30pm "too early." Why even bring 5:00pm to the table?

Yeah, if someone tried that with me they would be asked to leave. 

[fluffernutter]

The late thing drives me crazy! My brother in law is ALWAYS late. Like over an hour late. His now-teenager has always gotten in trouble for not getting to school on time because none of them seem to be able to get up. I used to have birthday parties when my kids were little. 2-4:00 type deals with an activity or something and then a piñata. My parents in law would be all like Noooo! Don't start! We have to wait for little grandson to get here! I stopped waiting because it's rude to the ones that did show up on time and to the birthday kid.

[Fascinated]

My husband and I travel quite frequently/as often as possible. Sometimes we go with two other couples.  We usually all do our own thing in the morning, because he and I like to get up and go and they like to have coffee and lounge in the hotel, where we aim to spend as little time as possible.  So, we arrange to meet for lunch and then usually separate again until dinner.  

And what happens is, we leave wherever we are, or whatever we are enjoying doing, in order to meet our friends at the appointed time.  (Oftentimes we wish we weren’t meeting them at all and could just continue doing our own thing.) And then we wait. And wait some more. And get more pissed off with each passing minute.  My husband is a very amiable, easygoing guy but it was on one such trip that he lost it. These are probably our best friends but, after waiting for an hour, doing absolutely nothing but wasting vacation time, he tore a strip off them.  And, yes, he pulled out the ‘your time is not more valuable than ours’ card.  The irony is that each of these couples thinks it’s the other that is always late.  Aargh. It’s both.  Thankfully, no permanent riff resulted and I swear to you they have been on time, or close to it, ever since.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, BundleofJoy said:

I was raised in a culture where being early was considered rude, and being half an hour late was still too early (so if the party starts at 5:00 PM and you arrive at 5:30 you're still too early). Getting somewhere too early feels like I'm overstaying an invitation in the other direction.

So much of this is cultural.  It reminds me of my first (disastrous) supper (dinner) party in the States.  Note all of this is not generalizeable much beyond a group of graduate students in upstate NY in the late '70s. Some of this is regional in the US too.

So, fresh from swinging London, I invited people for 6:30 pm, expected them to arrive about 6:45,  and timed the meal to be served at around 7:15.  I expected us all to enjoy a glass of wine and a few appetizers before the main event.  Imagine my horror when one  couple arrived at 6:15 while I was still getting dressed "in case I needed help."  No thanks!

They then refused drinks and appetizers and asked when dinner was going to be ready.  Yikes.  I further compounded my errors when I suggested we moved to the living room after dessert to have coffee.  They took this as a very broad hint to leave.  Most Americans like to stay at the dining table to chat after the meal.  I don't know why.

These days I invite people for 6:30 "and we will eat around 7:00."  It usually works.  And we stay talking in the dining room for hours even if the chairs are more comfortable in the other room.

I also remember complaining to an American friend that American men were rude because they never offered to shake hands.  She kindly told me that "a well brought up American male never offers to shake hands unless the woman holds her hand out first."  Mr. P had spent too much time in Europe to remember to warn me about that, or perhaps he wasn't "well brought up!"  Once I started offering my hand men did start shaking it though.

[2manyKidzzz]

If I criticized another country it would be a quick pounce. But of course, I just don’t do that. 

[cascarones]

@Palimpsest I had the opposite go in Europe! How funny. Rome, invited some of the Swiss Guard over for dinner, they got off early and were very excited for American cooking and showed up early with lovely hostess gifts while some of the girls were still getting sorted. We'd been expecting more of a laid back schedule, but some of the group went back out for more provisions when we realized there was a bit of a disconnect in just how many of them were coming. Everyone took it in good nature and we had many a fun evening with them.

It was one of those nights where I was glad I run early, prep early and think everyone needs a full meal of appetizers and snacks before an actual meal. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

23 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

If I criticized another country it would be a quick pounce. But of course, I just don’t do that. 

Not sure what precipitated this statement? I don't see any country criticisms.

[Bad Wolf]

@Palimpsest. Interesting. We invite people for a certain time. They arrive on time. We sit in the living room and chat with some wine and hors d'oeuvres, then eat dinner. After dinner, it's back to the living room or hot tub to relax and chat some more. Never stayed at the dining room table for hours. Of course, we're old, and sitting in uncomfortable chairs is not appealing.I

Kindle just changed uncomfortable to incendiary. 

[Palimpsest]

@Bad Wolf, I said it was probably specific to the time and place.

However, I've been invited to dinner by many Americans and we always seem to end up talking over dirty plates at the table.  I pine to move to comfy chairs but no-one ever suggests it.  Perhaps it is a NE thing.

My very English SIL (she lives in East Anglia) once informed me categorically that Americans never entertain in their own homes.  I boggled and said, "But that is not true."  I live in the USA!

Her source was her brother and his wife.  He spent 6 months as a post-doc in CT. Yale, IIRC.  They apparently invited lots of people to dinner (they are major foodies) but no-one ever invited them back. 

I wondered whether it was because her brother (who I only met once but disliked) was a major arse but didn't actually share that thought with her. 

 

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

My very English SIL (she lives in East Anglia) once informed me categorically that Americans never entertain in their own homes.

My SIL lives in East Anglia too, and considers herself an expert on things Americans do (or don't do). Why? Because she watches House Hunters, and she knows me. I kid you not.

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

My SIL lives in East Anglia too,

In all fairness, I don't think it is East Anglia.  I know a lot of very nice people from East Anglia.  Perhaps we have the same SIL though - does your SIL have a really obnoxious older brother?

[VelociRapture]

14 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@Bad Wolf, I said it was probably specific to the time and place.

However, I've been invited to dinner by many Americans and we always seem to end up talking over dirty plates at the table.  I pine to move to comfy chairs but no-one ever suggests it.  Perhaps it is a NE thing.

My very English SIL (she lives in East Anglia) once informed me categorically that Americans never entertain in their own homes.  I boggled and said, "But that is not true."  I live in the USA!

Her source was her brother and his wife.  He spent 6 months as a post-doc in CT. Yale, IIRC.  They apparently invited lots of people to dinner (they are major foodies) but no-one ever invited them back. 

I wondered whether it was because her brother (who I only met once but disliked) was a major arse but didn't actually share that thought with her. 

 

 

I live in NE, CT to be exact. My family does linger at the table a lot on holidays. I’d blame the dogs for that, but the dogs are only present at my parents’ house - my Grandparents like the dogs, but they aren’t invited to their home. 

I guess, for my family, it just is what we’ve always done. There’s no point in everyone moving to another room when we’re just going to have dessert soon anyways and there isn’t enough table space in the living room for everyone to use. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

46 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

In all fairness, I don't think it is East Anglia.  I know a lot of very nice people from East Anglia.  Perhaps we have the same SIL though - does your SIL have a really obnoxious older brother?

I, too, know a lot of nice folks from there, but my SIL and BIL are not among the nice. lol  SIL only has a sister, so no - I'm assuming our SILs are not one-and-the-same. My relatives live in Cambridgeshire. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

If I criticized another country it would be a quick pounce. But of course, I just don’t do that. 

Not sure what you mean by this because no-one has criticized another country that I have noticed.   Acknowledging cultural issues is not criticism.  It is recognition of real cultural differences - and sharing ways of adapting and compromising as politely as possible for all concerned.

Not sure why anyone would "pounce."  Quickly or not.  What a very odd expression. 

[Demonfan]

I am from NE although my parents are both immigrants, and we always leave the dining table after eating, and sit in the living room. This allows the table to be cleared, and set for dessert. I feel it is also more comfortable.  Maybe it's not regional, but just personal preference?

[Palimpsest]

36 minutes ago, Demonfan said:

I am from NE although my parents are both immigrants, and we always leave the dining table after eating, and sit in the living room.

Perhaps it is an immigrant thing.  That said, can I invite you over?  And will you invite me back?  I love to sit in living rooms after eating.   It just does not seem to be the norm in the circles we run in.  

 

[Demonfan]

@Palimpsest you are most welcome! On thinking it over, could it be a generational thing? I am in my mid 50's and some younger people do seem more casual?  Good for them, as long as they have fun! Regarding shaking hands, in my social group, people often do a cheek kiss, both to women and men once they have met them before. The initial introduction would be a handshake however. I find this all very interesting!

[candygirl200413]

I'm assuming it's a cultural immigrant thing? My parents are immigrants and we always stay at the table (only twice maybe we've actually gone to the living room) but usually at the table.

[Firebird]

I'm from Rochester/Buffalo area of New York and our family functions are usually arrive at x time and family trickles in for the next hour at which point food will be served at some point shortly thereafter, but there's always snacks out to nibble on until food is served. Dessert is a free for all and help yourself affair.

[Jinder Roles]

8 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

That blows my mind that a someone could say something starts at 5:00pm, then consider guests arriving at 5:30pm "too early." Why even bring 5:00pm to the table?

Think of it as a safety net and also a socialization time. Like, it's supposed to start at 5:00 but arriving at least 1/2 hour later gives hosts time for things that might have taken longer than expected (dinner parties w/ my family involve many different dishes, even if we're only inviting a few people). 

It's also understood that when you get there, you start out with chatter, peanuts, beverages and not the actual dinner. Dinner is usually  an hour (give or take) after the 'set' time. When everybody's settled, introduced and relaxed. And the food is fresh out the oven! 

At least growing up, that's what is was for me. 

[Audrey2]

@VelociRapture, I wonder if hanging out around the table to visit after the meal could have it's roots in the time when the kitchen would be the warm room, heated up for the cooking, but the parlor would be much more difficult to warm, as it was usually closed off, so it became the norm to linger in the warm room. I can see this being a factor in the Northeast, which later grew into a cultural norm.