Joy & Austin 15: Standing for the Fetus

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I have a good sense of direction, but almost no sense of time passing. I compensate (somewhat) for it by keeping timepieces nearby (at least one clock in every room, have a watch or phone with me when I'm away from home). I set alarms and reminders for routine things that other people wouldn't need. I'm a work in progress but I don't think other people's time is less important than mine.

On the plus side, when I can't tell time is passing, I can be remarkably patient. For example, my kids' pediatrician runs on time 99.9% of the time, but one time apologized for running 20-25 minutes late. I was alone with toddler child #1 and had no idea that it had been more than 2 or 3 minutes. There was no clock in the room and as long as she was happy, I didn't bother checking the time. I'm also very forgiving of friends who run late.

I can understand the feelings of folks who are habitually punctual. I hope maybe some of you can understand a little of the difficulties I face and some others face, too.

[NanisBlessing]

10 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

 

Totally OT, but it's not often I get to show my appreciation for you guys of Deutsche Bahn! You're a weird, wonderful and generally fabulous bunch! Totally personal opinion, but I love you lot. Keep up the good work!

Thank you !  I will let all my coworkers know 

[Knight of Ni]

According to Romper Joy-Anna wants to go to college. I can’t read the article because it’s blocked on my work computer but that’s what the headline says. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Knight of Ni said:

According to Romper Joy-Anna wants to go to college. I can’t read the article because it’s blocked on my work computer but that’s what the headline says. 

Hmm. I hadn't heard of Romper before this. First, I found an article about Jinger.  (Psst! Romper guys? We. Are. Not. A. Duggar. Fan. Site! Says so right at the top!!!)

The article about Joy-Anna doesn't seem to reflect what we know about the Duggars any more than the article about Jinger does. For example:

Quote

Joy-Anna Duggar is expecting and fans have a lot of few questions. One such question is will Joy-Anna Duggar go to college now that she is married and starting a family of her own? The 19-year-old hasn't explicitly stated whether she will or not, but she has options. The Duggars have been persistent in blazing their own trails when it comes to education, so it isn't a far leap to believe that Joy-Anna will follow suit. (my bold)

The only trail I've ever noticed them blaze when it comes to education is a little lip service and very little actual work.

Or this:

Quote

As for the argument that Joy-Anna is throwing her life away, there is no reason that she can't go on to get a college degree if she decides she wants one. (my bold)

Well, in most other women's situations, I'd agree. Since she's a Duggar, a member of a patriarchal cult, and a professed adherent if the quiverfull philosophy, I'd say that there are several reasons she would have a harder time going to college than an average 19 20 year old mother.

Also:

Quote

Tons of women choose to go back to school after having a baby and there is nothing wrong with taking a nontraditional path. That is one thing that the Duggars are good at.

I just almost can't find words to respond to this one. Maybe someone else can tackle it?

It also includes some rose tinted references to Duggar homeschooling and College Plus.

In short (too late!), while most of the other Romper articles I read looked like pretty good, standard parent magazine type articles, their "research" into Duggars is very superficial. 

[Carm_88]

I'm sorry but the Duggars have such shitty homeschooling, post secondary would be very hard for them. Like um yeah. 

[samurai_sarah]

7 hours ago, NanisBlessing said:

Thank you !  I will let all my coworkers know 

Since I'm fan-girling anyway: I especially love that contrary to all stereotypes of Germans lacking a sense of humour, you lot are plenty humorous. No-nonsense, but humorous and always kind. Needless to say that I'm a huge fan, and I'm not the only one.

A friend of mine never tires of telling the story of how she got stranded at a train station in Frankfurt and was in tears. She didn't speak a word of German, but a kindly DB employee took her by the hand, and took her to the "Bahnhofsmission" (for non-German speakers: it's a kind of emergency shelter that provides stranded travellers with a meal and a bed for the night).

You lot have fans!

[2manyKidzzz]

If people who are chronically late don’t care if they inconvenence others routinely, it is hard to know what to think.

I wouldn’t wait for them. 

 

 

[church_of_dog]

4 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

If people who are chronically late don’t care if they inconvenence others routinely, it is hard to know what to think.

I wouldn’t wait for them. 

 

 

Um, ok?

And if people who are chronically late *DO* feel bad about how their lateness affects others (like multiple people here have just said about themselves), and thus communicate appropriately to their planmates so that no one is left wondering, then I would never hold that against them.

Like I said earlier, when I make plans with my chronically-late friend, I can customize our plans as needed to avoid some situation I wouldn’t be comfortable with (going in to a movie after it’s started, for example).  There is no scenario where I think her lateness is about me or about her not caring.  It’s a part of her just like my quirks are a part of me.

Honestly, this just seems like a baiting comment to me.

[Casserole]

my dad was obnoxiously early everywhere growing up, to the point of giving me social anxiety. Birthday party at 4:00? We have to leave the house by 3. Cheer practice starts at 10? He'd drop me off at 9:30... except no one was there to unlock the gym yet. Rinse. Repeat. The issue was he'd rarely stay to wait out that time with me, so I was alone and embarrassed and as a result, really anxious about it. 

 

I am still very punctual now, but I will drive around a neighborhood an extra 4 times or force myself to sit and drink my coffee before leaving in the morning so that I'm not early. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

30 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

Since I'm fan-girling anyway: I especially love that contrary to all stereotypes of Germans lacking a sense of humour, you lot are plenty humorous. No-nonsense, but humorous and always kind. Needless to say that I'm a huge fan, and I'm not the only one.

A friend of mine never tires of telling the story of how she got stranded at a train station in Frankfurt and was in tears. She didn't speak a word of German, but a kindly DB employee took her by the hand, and took her to the "Bahnhofsmission" (for non-German speakers: it's a kind of emergency shelter that provides stranded travellers with a meal and a bed for the night).

You lot have fans!

Here in the good ole USofA that would get you a nice ride to an ICE detention center and deported. Unless you are white, then you'll be fine.

[Lurker]

I am an on time person, my husband is very relaxed about time and punctuality. It has been a source of stress and conflict for the last 40 years.

My maternal side of my family are generally chronically late. My sister after delaying my mother’s wake and  funeral for a few days so she could buy outfits for herself and her sons, was late by an hour for the first session of the wake.  I had left my home extra early without my husband and kids to make sure I was on time and take care of any details for the wake  and was left greeting my sisters multitute of co-workers who had come to pay respects.

If I am meeting people, I will always be the first to arrive.   

I always thought I hated flying but when I took a flight on my own and left the house early enough not to worry  about travel to and security lines at JFK I realized it was the stress of traveling with my tardy husband that made me upset, not flying.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

32 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

Um, ok?

And if people who are chronically late *DO* feel bad about how their lateness affects others (like multiple people here have just said about themselves), and thus communicate appropriately to their planmates so that no one is left wondering, then I would never hold that against them.

Like I said earlier, when I make plans with my chronically-late friend, I can customize our plans as needed to avoid some situation I wouldn’t be comfortable with (going in to a movie after it’s started, for example).  There is no scenario where I think her lateness is about me or about her not caring.  It’s a part of her just like my quirks are a part of me.

Honestly, this just seems like a baiting comment to me.

No, that is my opinion. If someone continually is late for meals, they would have to eat when they arrived, perhaps after others. That seems like something they would almost expect to happen .

I’ve never heard of people being hours late in my experience. I wouldn’ make appointments that would totally screw up my day or holiday, what sense does that make.

1 minute ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

No, that is my opinion. If someone continually is late for meals, they would have to eat when they arrived, perhaps after others. That seems like something they would almost expect to happen .

I’ve never heard of people being hours late in my experience. I wouldn’ make appointments that would totally screw up my day or holiday, what sense does that make.

Messed this up, but quirks that continually inconvenience others without regard for others, well, that does not hold others in your world in very high regard.

[church_of_dog]

7 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

No, that is my opinion. If someone continually is late for meals, they would have to eat when they arrived, perhaps after others. That seems like something they would almost expect to happen .

I’ve never heard of people being hours late in my experience. I wouldn’ make appointments that would totally screw up my day or holiday, what sense does that make.

Messed this up, but quirks that continually inconvenience others without regard for others, well, that does not hold others in your world in very high regard.

You’ve said this three times now, and no one is disagreeing that IF someone had no regard for how their actions affect others then that is not nice.  

But with multiple people describing how they DO feel bad about inconveniencing others and how they always communicate in order to avoid stressing others, you’re the one who seems to be disregarding how your words might cause others to feel...  That’s why I said it felt baiting to me — repeating an unchallenged comment multiple times to try to get a reaction.

Sorry if I’m being overharsh — I appear to be having one of those mornings.

[2manyKidzzz]

16 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

You’ve said this three times now, and no one is disagreeing that IF someone had no regard for how their actions affect others then that is not nice.  

But with multiple people describing how they DO feel bad about inconveniencing others and how they always communicate in order to avoid stressing others, you’re the one who seems to be disregarding how your words might cause others to feel...  That’s why I said it felt baiting to me — repeating an unchallenged comment multiple times to try to get a reaction.

Sorry if I’m being overharsh — I appear to be having one of those mornings.

Yes, you are harsh. It’s the internet after all. 

[quiversR4hunting]

So Joy has always been my favorite duggar. I check into this thread every once in a while. All the posts about abortion and the fact that she married into a seemingly like minded and fully enmeshed family. It all makes me sad.

She is married as a teenager, got pregnant as a teen and doubt if she will get to truly choose what she wants to do. For example, I am twice as old as her -give or take 2 years- and have a college degree but now I am trying to figure out what I want to do with my life. I have a good career but sick of the BS, politics and have hit the glass ceiling. Joy will (most likely) never be able to have "what do I do with myself" crisis.

She showed such spunk as a kid. Maybe one day she will get it back and wonder, where did my life go? and make some changes. The only hope I have for any of these fundies is to have a real epiphany.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, church_of_dog said:

You’ve said this three times now, and no one is disagreeing that IF someone had no regard for how their actions affect others then that is not nice.  

But with multiple people describing how they DO feel bad about inconveniencing others and how they always communicate in order to avoid stressing others, you’re the one who seems to be disregarding how your words might cause others to feel...  That’s why I said it felt baiting to me — repeating an unchallenged comment multiple times to try to get a reaction.

Sorry if I’m being overharsh — I appear to be having one of those mornings.

I don’t think you’re being harsh. A lot of people saying they run late a lot have made it clear that:

1. They honestly feel badly.

2. A lot of them have anxiety disorders that play a major role in being late (I’m the opposite - I get bad anxiety if I show up late to appointments because I don’t want to inconvenience anyone.) 

3. They try to come up with techniques that help them cope or arrive sooner.

4. When they can’t be on time, they contact the person they’re meeting to let them know.

I hate being late and I’m not a fan of people continually being super late either - but I also get that the posters who mentioned the above shouldn’t be judged the same as someone who flakes constantly or is just chronically lazy*, especially the people who mentioned anxiety disorders. Anxiety disorders can be truly horrific to try and cope with, especially if you suffer panic attacks - I feel like I’m dying when one hits me and it’s the most terrifying feeling. 

If someone is considerate enough to call/text to say they’ll be late and they aren’t super late (like 30+ minutes) all the time then I don’t see a real issue. 

*Same goes for people living in more relaxed cultures. I don’t think it’s fair to judge their cultural norms by the standards of another country. 

[Fascinated]

Back to the Romper article. I would very much like to see this ‘trail’ that the Duggars have ‘blazed’ regarding education. Why haven’t we seen this amazing and unique educational path?  Also, the ‘non-traditional path’ that they take with regards to going back to school after birthing a child.  Someone please show me both of these paths, for I have seen no indication of their existence. The trail to the Nauglers’ toilet is more evident than these.

What a load of garbage. 

[HavetheyheardofBeyonce]

Living in a more relaxed culture I should have said - people are always on time for church. My dad and I were always 30-45 minutes early.

As a biracial member of both these NZ and Pacific ethnicities (I'd prefer not to be specific as it's not a huge place!) I have grown up with both cultures and have both noticed and followed the research on recent migration patterns with people of a similar background to me returning to the Pacific homes of our parents and grandparents. The ongoing evolution of culture is discussed in a number of contexts so will be interesting to see whether conceptialisations of on time or lateness evolve as this Pacific society becomes more diverse!

[SapphireSlytherin]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I'm sorry but the Duggars have such shitty homeschooling, post secondary would be very hard for them. Like um yeah. 

http://hechingerreport.org/colleges-enroll-students-arent-prepared-higher-education/ 

It's not just the SOTDRT. 96% are in remedial courses! That's ABSURD.

[quiversR4hunting]

34 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

http://hechingerreport.org/colleges-enroll-students-arent-prepared-higher-education/ 

It's not just the SOTDRT. 96% are in remedial courses! That's ABSURD.

It says 96% of the 911 colleges surveyed have students in at least one remedial course. Then it goes on to say of the 911 colleges 209 of those schools have more than half of the incoming students in at least 1 remedial course.

It doesn't say that 96% of the students are in remedial courses.

From the article:

Quote

Data from 911 two- and four-year colleges revealed that 96 percent of schools enrolled students who required remediation in the 2014-15 academic year, the most comprehensive recent numbers. At least 209 schools placed more than half of incoming students in at least one remedial course.

 

[AtlanticTug]

I am basically never late, even with a baby/toddler around. I think a lot of it also depends on what you do professionally - if I was late for client meetings (I'm a corporate lawyer) or conference calls, by even 5 mins, I'd have no clients. It's basically unthinkable in the industry to have people waiting when they can be paying $900/hr for services. So that translates to the rest of your life eventually, you just sort of learn to always be early/on time.

I have some family members who are notoriously late and there is one uncle/aunt in particular and truthfully we no longer wait for them during holiday dinners for example. Way too many years of food going cold and kids screaming in hunger because these two would show up an hour or more late and breeze in like we were the idiots for thinking that this year they'd be on time. I do wonder with people who are chronically late, for whatever reason, what they do in their professional life where that sort of thing would not be tolerated or understood?

[justoneoftwo]

19 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I do wonder with people who are chronically late, for whatever reason, what they do in their professional life where that sort of thing would not be tolerated or understood?

I'm a corporate lawyer as well.  I'm not late professionally, but sometimes am personally.  It really depends what I'm doing. I'm doing you a favor personally, and I know its not time sensitive, if the baby sleeps a little late I'll let him sleep (I'll call you and let you know).  If I'm meeting you and I know your time is short, I'll wake him up.  I'm sometimes 10 min late because he fights getting in the car, again I'll call if I'll be late, but depending on the situation I know its not the end of the world.  

My parents are always 30 min late.  My mom is a doctor, my dad a professor. I don't think they were ever late for professional things.  

[SapphireSlytherin]

@quiversR4hunting Thanks - in my haste I read it incorrectly.

In my neck of the woods, it's pretty bad, though:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/colleges-find-area-freshmen-unready/article_868835a6-c104-5a33-a37b-42c733c6dcab.html

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/news/government/state/comptrollers-study-finds-large-numbers-of-freshmen-still-inadequately-prepared-for-college-2a560a2c--366758301.html

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2017/jun/20/colleges-remedial-freshmen-now-35-20170/?f=news-arkansas

 

[KelseyAnn]

I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but whatever. 

If you are late consistently and feel bad about it, you would think that would serve as motivation to stop being late. 

I used to gossip all the time, but as soon as I found out how badly that annoyed people, I stopped. I didn't use my need to feel accepted or important to excuse that. I just quit. 

I work with consumers who have tardiness issues, and there are ways people who struggled on time can work to fix it. It starts by not making excuses (unless of course, emergencies). If you need to set twelve alarms, set twelve alarms. If you need to time yourself to find out how long it takes you to get ready, time yourself, and add it to your wake up time. If you are constantly running 10-15 minutes late, leave 20 minutes earlier and wake up earlier. It is not fair to others to have to wait. Lateness one or two of three times is okay, but if you come late to something I planned more than four times you're likely not getting invited anymore. I have very little free time between jobs and college and I'd rather not waste it waiting for someone. Lateness is not something you are born with and cannot change. It is a fixiable thing. 

1 hour ago, AtlanticTug said:

I am basically never late, even with a baby/toddler around. I think a lot of it also depends on what you do professionally - if I was late for client meetings (I'm a corporate lawyer) or conference calls, by even 5 mins, I'd have no clients. It's basically unthinkable in the industry to have people waiting when they can be paying $900/hr for services. So that translates to the rest of your life eventually, you just sort of learn to always be early/on time.

I have some family members who are notoriously late and there is one uncle/aunt in particular and truthfully we no longer wait for them during holiday dinners for example. Way too many years of food going cold and kids screaming in hunger because these two would show up an hour or more late and breeze in like we were the idiots for thinking that this year they'd be on time. I do wonder with people who are chronically late, for whatever reason, what they do in their professional life where that sort of thing would not be tolerated or understood?

THIS! I have uncles who show up four or five hours late on Christmas every year. Three years ago before my sister had her baby that was fine, but now that my neice is three its just cruel to make her wait up past 9 or 10 to open Christmas presents. 

[VineHeart137]

I'm the odd person in my family. My family is from the Carribbean and they love the "island time" excuse. I somehow didn't get the memo and I HATE being late. For every job I've had I would get there early. If I was hourly and couldn't clock in before a certain time I would just chill in my car until it was time to go in. If I'm running late I actually get this heavy feeling in my chest and I get irritable. I always poke fun at my husband because I always somehow manage to get myself AND my kid ready before him for church. Even my wedding was right on time which is apparently unheard of. I guess time management is my thing?

The only time I am ok with being late is when we have family get togethers and the start time coincides with my daughter's nap (which it often does for whatever reason). Then I will tell the planner right away that we will most likely be late. My daughter has a hard time napping anywhere besides her bed and when she doesn't nap she becomes a crabby mess. I would rather be late than subject anyone, including her, to that.