Joy & Austin 15: Standing for the Fetus

[SamiKatz]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Did he ever provide any excuse?

He always had excuses.  Car broke down.  He was in a meeting he couldn't get out of.  Traffic accident blocking the road.

One or two times I would have bought it, but after the third time I realized that it was an issue he had and went out with my friends.  He was calling and calling and when I finally answered, he was annoyed I'd gone out anyway.  That was the final straw for me and I broke up with him.

Ironically, I have been late to my last three doctors appointments (not badly late, within 10 minutes), due to the freaking transit system in my city (I live about a 10 minute drive from my doc and it was taking me 45 minutes + to get there), and I was so flustered my doc said "It's okay!  We're always running a bit behind anyway).

[samurai_sarah]

15 minutes ago, NanisBlessing said:

I work for Deutsche Bahn (german railway)....I do not have the luxury of being late...not even one minute...those trains don't wait for me...they leave and I have to explain to my boss why I did not make my shift !  So from years of having to be super punctual, I am never late ( unless something I can't control happens ) in my private life either. Drives everyone around me crazy !  I think most germans are pretty punctual 

 

Totally OT, but it's not often I get to show my appreciation for you guys of Deutsche Bahn! You're a weird, wonderful and generally fabulous bunch! Totally personal opinion, but I love you lot. Keep up the good work!

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Being on time means being respectful of and valuing other people's time. I am not perfect and I am late sometimes too, stuff happens, but let's face it, the rest of the world does not revolve around one's schedule/anxieties/ the way one feels about showing up. 

[Boogers]

1 hour ago, karen77 said:

Our plan for that is to just tell them things start about a half hour (or hour, depending on family) early! then HOPEFULLY they'll be relatively on time.

My uncle and his family are always running around 30 min to an hour behind on holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter), so for years we've told them a time that's 30 min to an hour earlier than everyone else. They're usually still late, but at least it's not *as* late. They have the youngest set of kids in the family (all teens or older now), and we've just kind of accepted it...in fact, there's a pretty regular order of who arrives first, like clockwork. The beginnings of such events are usually just mingling and munching on pre-meal snacks, so it's no big deal. Once all have arrived, the feast begins!

[Jana814]

When my aunt still lived in the next town from me and hosted Thanksgiving we were the last ones their but we were at the time she said. Her brother and his family lived about an hour away and were usually their way before us. They had to wait for us because we had the extra chairs. My mother hates my aunt's (aunt by marriage) brother so she always tried to limit her exposure to him. 

[church_of_dog]

My mom is one of those Always.Late people (and now for added fun: incipient dementia included!).  Somehow I managed to not really recognize this about her during most of my young adult years -- perhaps because I only saw her rarely, and I was usually the one doing the traveling, while she was just "there" at home whenever I got to her place.  (And with a full day of driving between us, there was always some flexibility/understanding that one couldn't estimate too precisely how long a 400-mile-plus drive would take).  But in recent years I've spent more time with her, including regular several-day visits at her retirement community, where I see that she simply cannot be on time for ANYthing.

And to my astonishment, she says she has been this way her whole life, including being perennially late to her college classes, and when I mentioned that on my recent visit, she said it had started even before that -- so, even as a child, according to her.  In her more pensive moments, she says it is a form of resisting authority, "you can't tell me what to do", "you can't make me", etc.  Of course once this is ingrained in a person it controls them even when it interferes with something they strongly WANT to do.

I am only now learning how to hold a hard line (ie, boundaries that work for me) when I feel strongly enough about something to do so.  She's not liking it.  I've abandoned the idea that I'm trying to teach her better habits, now I'm simply trying not to be swept up into doing things that don't feel right to me (such as asking the dining hall staff for lunch even though it's after their stated hours).

[karen77]

18 minutes ago, Boogers said:

My uncle and his family are always running around 30 min to an hour behind on holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter), so for years we've told them a time that's 30 min to an hour earlier than everyone else. They're usually still late, but at least it's not *as* late. They have the youngest set of kids in the family (all teens or older now), and we've just kind of accepted it...in fact, there's a pretty regular order of who arrives first, like clockwork. The beginnings of such events are usually just mingling and munching on pre-meal snacks, so it's no big deal. Once all have arrived, the feast begins!

It helps, but it's still Speshul Snowflake to have to do it to some people, which is irritating.

[Alisamer]

If something is happening early in the morning, I might be late. I just might. I hate being late, but still, I might be. I'm thinking maybe there are some executive dysfunction issues or something going on, maybe? I just very much a night person, and do not function well in the morning. Some days it takes everything in me to just to get out of bed, and if I was too tired to set out everything I need the night before, I'm going to be a frantic, stressed-out mess even if I'm on time. I don't mean to ever be rude, I just struggle. And I do immediately text if I know I'm going to be a bit behind.

That said, if someone is waiting on me, I do my best to be on time if not a tiny bit early. Luckily, one of my closest friends has similar issues to me, so I know if I'm running 10 minutes late, she either will be too, or won't mind waiting a few minutes since I've waited on her before. 

We have gotten in the habit of telling my brother-in-law that we need to leave 15 - 30 minutes before we really need to, though, since he's likely to just be getting in the shower at the time we're planning to leave. 

[NakedKnees]

This is getting heated! Again, I'm a chronically late person. I'm not cool with conflating being "late" with "flaking." There is a BIG difference between being non-communicative and being late. I let people know as far in advance as possible when I'll arrive. I'm a very organized person and I don't like to be any trouble. Flaking is inexusable. 

If people think tardiness is the crux of rudeness and can't handle it, then I deal with it. I think I'm a pretty supportive friend, the kind who views her schedule flexibly and will flex it around you if you need it, so, to me it sort of feels like  a "your loss" situation.

It's also a culturally contingent thing and it's so obnoxious where I live for other foreigners to come in and act like "punctuality = ethically good" is a universal reality. It's arguably colonialist in attitude and I see it all the time. I'll never understand why people can't be flexible about this. If I went to live in Japan or Germany, you bet I'd try my hardest to adjust to that. 

Quick story: I once arrived to a dinner date 15 minutes late (and I gave my date a call letting them know where I was about 45 minutes ahead of the meeting time). We had dinner, and had fun, then as this person was giving me a ride home, they proceeded to berate me to tears about "making them wait." They went so far as to take a roundabout way home (without telling me) to "show me how it felt." It was scary and unnecessarily mean. 

Obviously, that's not a standard experience, but no personality trait is free of its individual assholes.

[Glasgowghirl]

I was often late for college last year as I needed to get 3 buses and with traffic, roadworks and unreliable bus services one bus was always late. Luckily this year I got into the university in the next town from me and it's easy to get to only need one bus. 

My friend must go on Duggar time too, she was always late for everything. Our parents knew each other before we were born and our mum's found out they were pregnant on the same day, I was a month early she was almost 3 weeks late. So I have spent all my life waiting on her.

[church_of_dog]

@Alisamer, I understand!  I think we all have our personal circadian rhythm issues.  I don't think that all "night people" have lateness issues although they might generally/all experience the morning difficulties you describe.  And as I learn things about what works best for me including not having social time in the evening, for example, I encounter resistance from other people because that seems odd to them (and in a few cases we end up with very little time available that works for us both!  but we have to respect each other's needs, which can be tricky sometimes/for some people.)

What I see as the key characteristic is that those who aren't willing to be late, develop a strategy.  Whatever strategy is needed to let them be on time.  So, if you can reliably set out your stuff the night before and that saves you sufficient time, that is a great strategy.  So is telling people an earlier time than actual, if that works.  Those specific strategies will work for some people and not for others, but if you're attuned to whether they are working for you, and continue to adjust your strategy until it does work for you, that's perfect!

On a separate note, I share your concern about executive function/dysfunction issues, both for myself and for my mom.  I'm very interested in the topic and I can't seem to find any good articles or studies that address this topic.  I'm not even sure if "executive function" or "executive dysfunction" is the proper term for it.  Sometimes I call it "time management" issues.  Or "personal productivity".  It doesn't seem to fit perfectly into any phrase I can think of.  If you find good information I hope you'll share it here!

[friendofgreen]

are there any updated pics of Joy's bump? 

i went back 7 or 8 pages and didn't see anything. 

[Boogers]

44 minutes ago, karen77 said:

It helps, but it's still Speshul Snowflake to have to do it to some people, which is irritating.

I can see where this would be irritating, but my family is pretty chill and has just accepted it. Irritation usually doesn't set in until they're over an hour late, and the meal is getting pushed back. I guess the trick is that the meal time isn't set to be the time people arrive. I know this won't work for everybody, just an anecdote is all

[Knight of Ni]

Looking back at my last two posts I’ve realized I’m becoming my father. (Help me). But he’s right. Maybe it’s from him being in the military but he’s right. If I had people constantly late for dinner at my house I would start at the appointed time whether they are there or not. It wouldn’t cross my mind that they would be rude enough to not only be late but also to expect us to alter the schedule just for them. 

[2manyKidzzz]

In no way would I consider repeatedly inconveniencing people by always being late. 

[sta_sha]

2 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

And you had better not show up with a coffee in your hand either. 

OMG so much this. I have two coworkers who are late every. single. day. Like 10-15 minutes...which is super annoying because they miss the breakdown for the day and sometimes we have 100 people come in when we open the doors...and being two staff short, even for a few minutes, is really hard. The most annoying part is that the wander in each holding a coffee everyday. If you're already late, you don't have time to stop! And if you wan to stop, you need to leave earlier! 

 

[singsingsing]

Okay, 10-15 minutes late is one thing, even if it's a chronic thing. I get it, some people are always running late, and I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal, unless it's for something really time sensitive. But when you're getting into the range of half an hour, an hour plus, and it's happening all the time, that's just not right. Something has to change, even just for your own sake - I mean how many jobs, promotions, friendships, relationships, or memories are you missing out on when you're that chronically late?

I have ADHD and severe executive function deficits, so I know exactly what it's like to be disorganized, exhausted, and to have literally no sense of time. I work extra hard to make sure that I'm on time to things, and sometimes I still screw up and wind up a few minutes late. And look, shit happens - you miss the bus, there's a train, whatever - it happens to everyone at some point or another - but in that case, you call or text and let the other person know what's going on. It's one thing to be late occasionally, another thing to be late constantly, and something else entirely to just leave people hanging while they wait for you.

[JDuggs]

1 hour ago, Boogers said:

I can see where this would be irritating, but my family is pretty chill and has just accepted it. Irritation usually doesn't set in until they're over an hour late, and the meal is getting pushed back. I guess the trick is that the meal time isn't set to be the time people arrive. I know this won't work for everybody, just an anecdote is all

Yeah when having people over for a meal, be explicit. For example, come as early as 5 and we'll be eating at 6. If you don’t have any time for a social hour, let the guests know exactly what time the meal starts. Come at 6; dinner will be served at 6:15. Parties are different, but meal times need to be honored by guests.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, friendofgreen said:

are there any updated pics of Joy's bump? 

i went back 7 or 8 pages and didn't see anything. 

Nope. Last photos were from early this month when she was likely around 18 weeks.

2 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

This is getting heated! Again, I'm a chronically late person. I'm not cool with conflating being "late" with "flaking." There is a BIG difference between being non-communicative and being late. I let people know as far in advance as possible when I'll arrive. I'm a very organized person and I don't like to be any trouble. Flaking is inexusable. 

If people think tardiness is the crux of rudeness and can't handle it, then I deal with it. I think I'm a pretty supportive friend, the kind who views her schedule flexibly and will flex it around you if you need it, so, to me it sort of feels like  a "your loss" situation.

It's also a culturally contingent thing and it's so obnoxious where I live for other foreigners to come in and act like "punctuality = ethically good" is a universal reality. It's arguably colonialist in attitude and I see it all the time. I'll never understand why people can't be flexible about this. If I went to live in Japan or Germany, you bet I'd try my hardest to adjust to that. 

Quick story: I once arrived to a dinner date 15 minutes late (and I gave my date a call letting them know where I was about 45 minutes ahead of the meeting time). We had dinner, and had fun, then as this person was giving me a ride home, they proceeded to berate me to tears about "making them wait." They went so far as to take a roundabout way home (without telling me) to "show me how it felt." It was scary and unnecessarily mean. 

Obviously, that's not a standard experience, but no personality trait is free of its individual assholes.

I’m sorry that happened to you. What an asshole! 

I was going to write more, but I think @singsingsingsummed it up pretty well - shit happens sometimes, be considerate and contact if you’re running late, and don’t flake on people. 

[Fascinated]

I get very anxious if I think I’m going to be late. My husband does not.  Recently we were going to a wedding that was to begin at five.  

(It is now 3:30 and we are both ready.)

Me: ‘Let’s just go!’

Him: ‘Oh my god, we have an hour and a half!’

Me: ‘Exactly!  With traffic it will take longer and WE WILL BE LATE!’

Him: ‘It will not take an hour and a half to get there. Just relax for a few minutes. We will leave in ten minutes, ok?’

Me: ‘NO, THAT IS NOT OK. WHY DO YOU WANT TO JUST SIT HERE FOR TEN MINUTES? IF WE GET THERE EARLY WE CAN SIT THERE FOR TEN MINUTES INSTEAD!’

Him: ‘Jesus. Ok. Let’s go.’

(it is now exactly 5:00 and we are taking our seats.  Sweating, feet killing from the final sprint, but on time.)

(It is now 5:47 and the ceremony is now underway.  Fuck.)

 

[Demonfan]

Lil' demon 2 has Autism. One of the ways it manifests is in executive functioning issues. Ld2 also struggles to realize how quickly or slowly they are performing a task. Because in the society we live in being on ok time is considered courteous, and sometimes mandatory, we have routines in place to ensure that he is successful. We hired an executive functioning coach. It has taken about 2 years, but the results are worth it. Ld2 feels that he is in control of his time and can successfully navigate the nessesary routines.

[Jinder Roles]

Wow, that really hit a nerve for some of y'all. I took the original comment to mean an event that doesn't require collective group participation to start.

Like, if I'm running behind I'll let you know and also don't expect you to wait around for me. If it's an activity that demands everyone be there at the start then yes, you should be on time or not too far behind schedule.

There are different kinds of late or different kinds of activities. And some people actually do have issues managing time for various reasons. It can be annoying and if it hinders something then there should be consequences. But not being 100% on time is not necessarily an intentionally malicious habit. Sometimes it's personal, sometimes it's cultural. And yes, some times it is disrespectful/inconsiderate 

[HavetheyheardofBeyonce]

Another on time person here however I live between two countries. New Zealand where I spend half my time has the usual mix of late and on time people. The beautiful Pacific Island where I live and work for the other half of the year is known for island time where 90 percent of the population are constantly late. (I'm not talking 10 minutes either) The husband was actually 1 hour 25 minutes late to our third date! In that respect the Duggars would be right at home... While island time is hugely frustrating there are other parts of island life which compensate for this!

[BecausePrayer]

I'm definitely somewhere in the middle on this. If there's a more formal or organized event I do everything in my power to be on time. If I'm hanging out with friends I still try my best of course, but you can pretty much guarantee that I'll be running about 5, or maybe 10, minutes behind. A lot of that just comes down to anxiety. I need a few minutes to freak out before whatever I have to do, but I can't get up or leave earlier because giving myself too much time to be anxious pretty much guarantees I'll end up getting so anxious I have to cancel. The two people I hang out with the most get it and I've explained it to them before so I know they don't mind. For some people it's not disrespect for other people's time, its just a necessary way to go about life.

 

On the holiday thing- One side of my family will make us all wait HOURS until everyone is there to eat, and the same family members are always very late no matter what. It's happened several times that my parents and I don't even get to eat with that part of our family on holidays because we were supposed to have lunch with them but it's time for dinner at another part of the family's home and we have to go over there. The other side of the family is the complete opposite. "Dinner is at 6 and if your late help yourself to the leftovers" is their motto for all family get togethers.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I hate to get into a touchy subject, but as a chronically late person, the idea that people are running late out of selfishness strikes me as bizarre. Oh yeah, I just *love* running around in a panic and canceling appointments and pissing off my friends! It's so gratifying to make my boss hate me. Just looking out for my own interests!

Nah man, some people just have trouble with organization and time perception. I literally take medication for this shit and I'm really trying but unfortunately, I still have my flaws. I'm not doing it *at* you.