Joy and Austin 14: Pregnant with Their First

[shiverful]

If I were raised in that house, I don't think that I would even WANT to have sex before marriage, regardless of the strength of personal faith. 

While i DO think that it is technically possible for a courting couple to sneak off and be alone for a couple of minutes, I don't think for a second that sex would be on their minds. When even kissing is off limits, that's where I would put the energy (not saying that I suspect any of the couples of kissing before marriage, but it's hella lot more likely than sex). 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

2 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

But just like people are sensitive in regards to people guessing based off gestures or misc hunches, I am sensitive to people's attempts to control discourse through dragging, dumping and bullying.

Telling you that you're talking shit is NOT bullying. In case you're wondering it's called disagreeing. It's an opinion like yours and people can express it as you expressed yours. 

I can't say what was dragged and dumped except the poor dead horse. 

[Thumper]

It's really not weird, odd or unusual to be a virgin at 19 or even early twenties. It's actually very common for millenials. Millenials are having less sex than any generation in the past 60 years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/there-isnt-really-anything-magical-about-it-why-more-millennials-are-putting-off-sex/2016/08/02/e7b73d6e-37f4-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?utm_term=.5d332bedb7db I know several atheists older than Joy who are virgins. 

And these Duggar women come from an extremely fertile family and are in their most fertile years. Immediate impregnation really shouldn't come as any biological surprise or curiosity.

[Front Hugging Fiend]

12 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Clearly, I have a theme going already.  But, which *blue*/*pink*?   Which color for nails and toes?  Get fancy with it?   Decisions, decisions.   I'm hungry.

Spoiler

I haven't had time to fix up the edges yet so please don't judge too harshly, but this post inspired me to crack open my fave red. Thank you! Brightened my spirits and brought me out of FJ hiding. Bless the pedicure manoeuvre. 

Spoiler

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, Thumper said:

It's really not weird, odd or unusual to be a virgin at 19 or even early twenties. It's actually very common for millenials. Millenials are having less sex than any generation in the past 60 years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/there-isnt-really-anything-magical-about-it-why-more-millennials-are-putting-off-sex/2016/08/02/e7b73d6e-37f4-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?utm_term=.5d332bedb7db 

That's interesting. I've read that the generation after millennials is having a lot less sex too. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/ Basically, since the smartphone came out things like teen pregnancy rates and alcohol abuse rates have dropped because kids just aren't hanging out in person as much. Unfortunately, kids are also less happy than ever. It was a really interesting piece.

[Henk12]

I know something we can all agree on! Joy looks beautiful and I'm sure we all want her to have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby. 

I doubt Joy or any of the Duggar sisters had sex before marriage, but who cares if they did?! If they didn't, good for them. If they did, good for them. It could go either way. We don't see what goes on when the cameras are gone and there are very few of us on here who actually know them in person. I just hope that the Duggar kids find a way to be happy and break free from their abusive cult. 

[TatiFish9]

4 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Telling you that you're talking shit is NOT bullying. In case you're wondering it's called disagreeing. It's an opinion like yours and people can express it as you expressed yours. 

At what point did I identify the bullshit comment as bullying? 

Bullying occurs when a new member or less active member is pushed around based on their comments. No one else has been told to drop the topic but me. With the ever consistent, extensive, ongoing thread drifts that go on across the board, the phrase "beating a dead horse" is so funny that it's not. It is a subtle form of bullying the poster off topic.

Dragging is consistently coming at someone in a nasty way over something assinine in efforts to show who holds the true power component.

Dumping is a person mentioning a topic and another person going to town on them based on their emotional baggage in regards the topic.

I will admit that I did not clearly think out some of my previous responses (like the one on Josh). But my comment on Jill did not warrant exaggerated responses especially in a thread where there are posts specifically speculating that Joy got pregnant before marriage.

I have mentioned here before that I thought at least one Duggar had sex before marriage. Back then I did not mention the name because I thought call out would be tacky on such a topic. But I saw Joy mentioned here; thought it was okay. Boy was I wrong!!!!!!! lol

[Snarkle Motion]

I'm surprised people think it's so hard for the kids to sneak away because there are always people around. I actually think that makes it easier for them to slip away unnoticed. Particularly if there are tons of extra people over as seems to happen frequently. You wouldn't think to assign a chaperone at a big party. I think it's also tough with multiple people courting at the same time or opposite sex pairs hanging out as friends.

Jim Bob and Michelle are known to ignore their youngest children, leave them improperly supervised and unattended, and generally just removed/oblivious about what the kids are up to at all times. I'm not sure why it's assumed that when the kids are older they suddenly become super involved and aware of their adult children's whereabouts and actions at all times. 

My secret hope is that Joy potentially slipping off with Austen is her form of rebellion. I know it's unlikely but I still hope for it.

[PainfullyAware]

It seems a bit contradictory to both say this is a cult, these poor kids are brainwashed, and that they are also running around breaking all the rules like normal teens. It can be hard to actually exaggerate the level of psychic damage and shame over sex that cults can inflict. 

While other fundamentalist kids may break rules I think Gothardism is a cult and that is a more extreme form of brainwashing than even very conservative Christian churches. 

Josh obviously did deviate but boy did he do it deviently ...it was a perversion not normal rule breaking. I think by joking that these kids might sneak a few kisses we may actually underestimate the harm that their belief system inflicts on its young people. 

Just my two cents! 

[Destiny]

Guys. This horse is fucking dead. Sigh. 

Someone bury it before it fucks up the carpets. We are running low on cleaning budget!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Anyone else wondering what Joy & Austin's home looks like? Some have seen picks of the last place he bought just before they married, that was in desperate need of paint scrubbing and repairs in the kitchen.  I like that they have their own place, and not one owned by Boob.  The porch they took pics on looked nice, I wonder if the Duggar siblings did up this house while they were away like they did for Jessa and Ben? 

[TatiFish9]

47 minutes ago, PainfullyAware said:

It seems a bit contradictory to both say this us a cult, these poor kids are brainwashed, and that they are also running around breaking all the rules like normal teens. 

While other fundamentalist kids may do it I think Gothardism is a cult and that is a more extreme form of brainwashing than even very conservative Christian churches. 

I want to like your post a million times because it speaks to the complexity of this family et al. and why they remain a hot topic. Both myself and my husband left churches that were called cults but they were drastically different in nature - one evangelical and the other contemporary.  Unfortunately, one was actually classified as a cult, like Gothardism.

I attended both churches. What I noticed is that 1) "outsiders" almost always have an inaccurate understanding of the inner workings 

2) those who leave (like ourselves) have heightened experiences. 

Furthermore this goes into what is defined as a cult? Where is the line drawn? When is a person willingly participating in a cult? Who determines what a cult is?

Anyway, I think the Duggars are atypical Gothards as they have been on tv and have had access to resources unlike the average Gothardite. I don't think they're as sheltered as they appear. I also think like anything, with privilege come maneuverability.

That is why someone like Erin Paine can have a career and stage it as her being a good wife/mother by fundie standards. Yet she's working and contributing heavily to the household finances while being a mother. I know she and her husband have denounced Gothardism.

Also, I have to say one can be under heavy psychological influence and still participate in primal functions. It all has a way of coming out. I don't think Josh is much of an outlier. He just got caught because his family made powerful enemies. He's also not the standard either.

[Fundie Bunny]

19 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

That is why someone like Erin Paine can have a career and stage it as her being a good wife/mother by fundie standards. Yet she's working and contributing heavily to the household finances while being a mother. I know she and her husband have denounced Gothardism.

They have not. Why would they, anyway, both their fathers are high on the IBLP hierarchy, what she did was say she doesn't follow Gothrd, the person, long After he was kicked out because of the scandals. They haven't said a word about anything else.

[Coconut Flan]

I've gone in search of the trenching tools.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, TatiFish9 said:

At what point did I identify the bullshit comment as bullying? 

Bullying occurs when a new member or less active member is pushed around based on their comments. No one else has been told to drop the topic but me.

I quoted the part where YOU used the word bullying so I don't understand your question at all.

No one mandated you to drop the topic, but you can't demand that people agree with you or stop pushing back either. You can go on saying what you want and people can go on saying you're bullishitting if that makes you happy.

Glad you looked up the definitions of the terms you used, pity you can't understand that they don't apply to this situation. And with this I'm done with this shit.

[TatiFish9]

1 minute ago, Fundie Bunny said:

They have not. Why would they, anyway, both their fathers are high on the IBLP hierarchy, what she did was way she doesn't follow Gothrd, the person, long After he was kicked out because of the scandals. They haven't said a word about anything else.

I am speaking about something I saw her say in the comments section of her blog. She specifically said she did not follow Gothardism. Whether it's true or not is another story. But she openly denounced the practices in question.

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, TatiFish9 said:

I am speaking about something I saw her say in the comments section of her blog. She specifically said she did not follow Gothardism. Whether it's true or not is another story. But she openly denounced the practices in question.

That is not the same as denouncing. Which practices specifically did she denounce? Again, saying, "we are not affiliated, do not support or encourage" is not the same as denouncing.

Do you by any chance read a lot of online tabloid stories about the Duggars and Bateses? Because some of the claims you're making are pretty much ripped straight from their (highly exaggerated and dubious) headlines. 

[TatiFish9]

7 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I quoted the part where YOU used the word bullying so I don't understand your question at all.

No one mandated you to drop the topic, but you can't demand that people agree with you or stop pushing back either. You can go on saying what you want and people can go on saying you're bullishitting if that makes you happy.

Glad you looked up the definitions of the terms you used, pity you can't understand that they don't apply to this situation. And with this I'm done with this shit.

And I don't understand your problem.

I asked no one to agree with me. I specifically said the opposing point was edit: probably right. Most of these responses have been sensationalized based off the assumption that I believed the Duggars couldn't possible not have sex before marriage. Again call bull shit where you see fit. And I will do the same so long as we are allowed to speak on it. You can't possibly think your side of the argument is so perfect that it is above censure while turning around and telling me I can't expect people to agree with me.

I didn't look up any definitions. I'm calling petty on this post. I'm glad where's equally allowed to call each other out.

5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

That is not the same as denouncing. Which practices specifically did she denounce? Again, saying, "we are not affiliated, do not support or encourage" is not the same as denouncing.

Do you by any chance read a lot of online tabloid stories about the Duggars and Bateses? Because some of the claims you're making are pretty much ripped straight from their (highly exaggerated and dubious) headlines. 

Again, I saw this on her actual website in the comments section with my own two eyes. I don't know anything about tabloids. I watch their shows. I come up with my own conclusions first. But now I see where these responses come from. Assumptions. Yet, I was just reprimanded for assuming. Amazing.

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Most of these responses have been sensationalized based off the assumption that I believed the Duggars couldn't possible not have sex before marriage.

That is simply not true. Stop making statements that are flat out false. Weren't you the one complaining about words being put in your post? 

You made a claim. People disagreed with you. You continued to argue your point, people pointed out why they thought your arguments were weak or baseless. You were the one who then began to accuse people of 'histrionics' and 'bullying'. Guess what? You said something that most people disagreed with. What do you expect? If you post something that most people disagree with, you're going to get a lot of comments disagreeing with you. If you state fantasy as fact, or accuse people of attacking you when they're merely contradicting your argument, then yeah, people are going to get fed up and the conversation is going to devolve into a discussion about nail polish.

[calimojo]

4 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I'm surprised people think it's so hard for the kids to sneak away because there are always people around. I actually think that makes it easier for them to slip away unnoticed. Particularly if there are tons of extra people over as seems to happen frequently. You wouldn't think to assign a chaperone at a big party. I think it's also tough with multiple people courting at the same time or opposite sex pairs hanging out as friends.

Jim Bob and Michelle are known to ignore their youngest children, leave them improperly supervised and unattended, and generally just removed/oblivious about what the kids are up to at all times. I'm not sure why it's assumed that when the kids are older they suddenly become super involved and aware of their adult children's whereabouts and actions at all times. 

My secret hope is that Joy potentially slipping off with Austen is her form of rebellion. I know it's unlikely but I still hope for it.

I am just surprised this post garnered negatives. 

I actually agree, I don't think it would be hard for the kids to get some time alone.  The house is busy and chaotic, and I agree, we always bag on JB and M for not watching the littles enough, so why do we suddenly think they are watching the older ones like a hawk. 

Saying it is possible, doesn't mean that it happened, it just means it is possible.  And I for one, believe that all of the marrieds, and courting kids have managed to find a few minutes here and there.  Even if it was just by accident.  I could easily see one kid heading to the kitchen, not realizing the other one is in there.  They might chat for a minute or two before someone else enters the space.  Do I think they took the chance to grab a quicky on top of the kitchen counter?  No, but I think it is not only possible, but probable that they all have had some time here and there where they were briefly alone.  I also think that some of the chaperones are probably less attentive than others.  

And really, when you think of it,  Joy is not in a bad position, compared to many other young women her age.  She has her own home, she has a supportive husband, (from what we can tell); her family obviously supports her at this point;  she has a decent income; she has access to a supply of cars; she has readily available childcare/babysitting; within her social circle, she is likely viewed very well and admired.  So while those of us on the outside look at this and see a life with fewer choices, and hardship, in Joy's reality,  she has far more choice and far fewer hardships than most 19 year old moms. 

The real danger of Joy's pregnancy, isn't for Joy personally,  it is for the potential influence Joy or any of the Duggar kids may have on others.  While the Duggars live in wealth and have for years, most others will not have that same advantage, and they face a long and difficult life having kid after kid, on limited incomes. 

[TatiFish9]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

That is simply not true. Stop making statements that are flat out false. Weren't you the one complaining about words being put in your post? 

You made a claim. People disagreed with you. You continued to argue your point, people pointed out why they thought your arguments were weak or baseless. You were the one who then began to accuse people of 'histrionics' and 'bullying'. Guess what? You said something that most people disagreed with. What do you expect? If you post something that most people disagree with, you're going to get a lot of comments disagreeing with you. If you state fantasy as fact, or accuse people of attacking you when they're merely contradicting your argument, then yeah, people are going to get fed up and the conversation is going to devolve into a discussion about nail polish.

Good. Let them get fed up. But the first person fed up was you. You went on a diatribe based on your own issued about people saying someone has premarital sex when they didn't. You don't know if Jill did just like I don't know that she did it. Yet you claimed your response superior. You ran with it. You set the tone. Again. I am also allowed to call out non truths and bull shit responses. I understand you have more power and influence her. You will be agreed with quickly. But you will not bully me into submission.

[Coconut Flan]

It may be time for everyone to share his/her favorite banana bread recipe.

The horsie is dead, the parrot has expired, and I've unpacked the shovel, trencher, and three bags of top soil and one of mulch.  Rufus is preparing the funeral service.

If banana bread isn't popular, then favorite fall soup should do.  

 

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, TatiFish9 said:

Good. Let them get fed up. But the first person fed up was you. You went on a diatribe based on your own issued about people saying someone has premarital sex when they didn't. You don't know if Jill did just like I don't know that she did it. Yet you claimed your response superior. You ran with it. You set the tone. Again. I am also allowed to call out non truths and bull shit responses. I understand you have more power and influence her. You will be agreed with quickly. But you will not bully me into submission.

What the... I'm not sure anyone can argue with you at this point. This response is truly bizarre. You joined FJ on March 12. Is this seriously the first time you've had an argument here? Been disagreed with? I mean, how did you manage till now?

I'm not sure who you think I am. I'm not a mod or an admin. I don't understand what 'power and influence' you're attributing to me. I don't control anyone here. I don't talk to anyone here outside this forum. If I appear popular, it's because I've been here forever and they can't get rid of me. Trust me, I've said my fair share of stupid, offensive, controversial and unpopular things, and plenty of people have called me out on it, sometimes quite harshly, especially a few years back when I was younger and sillier and the forum was meaner. 

Look, people disagreed with you. It happens. It's not the end of the world. If you hadn't kept digging this hole and accusing the entire forum of attacking you, it would have blown over a long time ago, I promise.

[apandaaries]

24 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

 

Again, I saw this on her actual website in the comments section with my own two eyes.

Do  you have a screenshot to share? A link? Any kind of evidence whatsoever beyond I saw it "with my own two eyes"? Because we're still really into verifiable facts here at FJ, despite allowing for and indulging in lots of excessive speculation at times. You've offered a lot of anecdata to support your ideas -- friends who veered from their conservative/fundie upbringings at college or at other opportunities...but still continue to assert that you think Jill and Derick found a way to fuck before marriage without offering any kind of proof or substantive evidence.   People will push back against such assertions, and disagreement isn't the same as bullying.  

I mentioned this elsewhere, but if  you can't find evidence for your argument, it might not be as strong as it initially feels. Finally, I'd like to offer this beauty from The Oatmeal, which I find helpful when reconsidering personal bias: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

ETA: Crossposted with @Coconut Flan.  I'm looking forward to pumpkin soups this year.  We just need it to get a little chillier, but pumpkin soup with fried sage leaves is such a joy. 

[Henk12]

Oh banana bread sounds fantastic. You know what I hate though? When people put nuts in it. WHY? YOU RUINED PERFECTLY GOOD BANANA BREAD.