Seewalds 23: Visiting Waco Again

[SapphireSlytherin]

12 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

If anything, I'd think that unqualified people are more likely to be employed in family businesses since their employment is based on nepotism, rather than actually interviewing people and hiring the most qualified person based on their merits. 

I've worked for my dad and my granddad. I can tell you right now that neither of them would have let me in the door of their businesses if I were incompetent for the jobs they hired me to do (starting with sweeping floors, dusting fixtures, and making coffee when I was 8 or 9). I eventually "worked my way up" to writing purchase orders, taking inventory, balancing/reconciling bank statements, making bank deposits, maintaining a database, and handling multi-million-dollar customer orders for bespoke manufactured products. They were both harder on ME than they were on Joe Blow off the street. I can't tell you how many times the Joe Blows told me they were glad they weren't me because of the reverse favoritism.

As for embezzlement - noone in my family embezzled from my dad or my granddad, but Jane Blow (accountant) sure did. She came "highly recommended" from an employment agency. We had no idea anything was amiss until the IRS tried to put a lien on our accounts - the bank called to let us know.

I do know embezzlement happens in family businesses, though - and it's largely unreported to "keep the family peace."

[Daisy0322]

@OyToTheVey I kinda agree with that... there's quite a few businesses in my family. While I don't work for any, my husband does and there is lots of benefits. For exsample I'm having a very high risk pregnancy and he gets out of work for all my appointments planned or emergency no questions asked. If he left a non family business this much I'm sure they would've let him go. 

[OyToTheVey]

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I've worked for my dad and my granddad. I can tell you right now that neither of them would have let me in the door of their businesses if I were incompetent for the jobs they hired me to do (starting with sweeping floors, dusting fixtures, and making coffee when I was 8 or 9). I eventually "worked my way up" to writing purchase orders, taking inventory, balancing/reconciling bank statements, making bank deposits, maintaining a database, and handling multi-million-dollar customer orders for bespoke manufactured products. They were both harder on ME than they were on Joe Blow off the street. I can't tell you how many times the Joe Blows told me they were glad they weren't me because of the reverse favoritism.

As for embezzlement - noone in my family embezzled from my dad or my granddad, but Jane Blow (accountant) sure did. She came "highly recommended" from an employment agency. We had no idea anything was amiss until the IRS tried to put a lien on our accounts - the bank called to let us know.

I started working for my dad when I was 16. I can honestly say he's much harder on me than any employee he's ever hired. I'm the first one that gets in trouble if someone else does something wrong. We had an accountant story too! My family didn't embezzle but the old accountant sure did. And I can't tell you enough about all the shit employees my dad put up with because they were better than the last shit employees. 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

I thought Ben was on track to transfer to the University of Arkansas before he started courting Jessa (per her love letter to him on Father's Day.) For all we know, Jim Bob could have told Ben, "Unless you quit your secular job selling insurance, and drop out of your secular college, I can't let you court, let alone marry, Jessa" in which case, Ben having the job he does isn't snarkable so much as it is sad, because it means Ben gave up everything he had going for him just to marry Jessa.

Having said that, I am making a big assumption in saying that Jim Bob made Ben abandon the secular elements of his life to court/marry Jessa. I know someone who quit a full time job to work part time for her S.O.'s family business, which on paper seems like it would be a step down, but her S.O.'s family was offering her the same amount of pay for fewer hours of work, so it was actually a lateral shift, even though it wasn't an obvious one. Maybe Jim-Bob offered Ben more money than his old job was paying. I can't say I'd blame him working for Jim-Bob in that case, any little extra free time is helpful when you're in college AND have 2 kids under 2. 

[JDuggs]

35 minutes ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

I thought Ben was on track to transfer to the University of Arkansas before he started courting Jessa (per her love letter to him on Father's Day.) 

I'm not sure where you saw this. I read the Father's Day letter again and didn't see this. I think Ben finished up his associates degree the semester after they got married. He's been taking online classes from Moody Bible Institute. I think that the flexibility of working for Jim Bob fits Ben's schedule as a student and for all of the traveling and filming that they do for the show. He doesn't really have the time to commit to a 40 hour a week job.

[karen77]

47 minutes ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

I thought Ben was on track to transfer to the University of Arkansas before he started courting Jessa (per her love letter to him on Father's Day.) For all we know, Jim Bob could have told Ben, "Unless you quit your secular job selling insurance, and drop out of your secular college, I can't let you court, let alone marry, Jessa" in which case, Ben having the job he does isn't snarkable so much as it is sad, because it means Ben gave up everything he had going for him just to marry Jessa.

 

Wasn't his other job 3 hrs away from Jessa... near his parents? IF she insisted on living near mom and dad, maybe that was the easiest option, he was going to have to find  a new job regardless.

[onekidanddone]

19 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

As much as Ben seems out of it, I hate to hear all the snark about 'toilet-cleaning' and menial jobs. A jobs a jobs and it seems kind of elitest to me. Just because he's a fundie doesn't mean a job like that is snarkable. 

If he was cleaning toilets as a real job that would be him working hard to support his family. However his cleaning toilets at the TTH being Jim Blob's lackey is different, at least to me.

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

@karen77  You're totally right! Its not in the Father's Day letter, it was actually in the letter Jessa wrote for Ben's birthday. My bad! 

"You told me that you were finishing up studies at your community college and that you were thinking about transferring to the University of Arkansas." 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

If he was cleaning toilets as a real job that would be him working hard to support his family. However his cleaning toilets at the TTH being Jim Blob's lackey is different, at least to me.

I think the issue some of us have is that we just don't know. He's keeping it to himself, which is his perogative, and that has become he's jimbob's toilet boy. Which seems a bit unfair. 

[xlurker]

On the topic of Ben.  I may be in the minority (or alone  !) in thinking he isn't stupid.  I do think he suffers from some pretty awful allergies, which can always make you look stoned.  He also only seems to have brief flashes ( on camera) of being comfortable in his own skin...so to my eye maybe he is possibly uncomfortable in front of the cameras.  I mean, he didn' grow up in front of them!  In short, I think FJ  may be giving him the short end of the stick.  We only see the bits that are filmed, and honestly, I know I look and sound like an idiot in home videos...cant imagin what it would be like having a camera crew around.   I know, I know....he chose this. But really, maybe he chose Jessa, and the only way he could have her was allowing the camera?  I dont know, I kinda like the goofy guy 

[Pukingpearl]

24 minutes ago, xlurker said:

On the topic of Ben.  I may be in the minority (or alone  !) in thinking he isn't stupid.  I do think he suffers from some pretty awful allergies, which can always make you look stoned.  He also only seems to have brief flashes ( on camera) of being comfortable in his own skin...so to my eye maybe he is possibly uncomfortable in front of the cameras.  I mean, he didn' grow up in front of them!  In short, I think FJ  may be giving him the short end of the stick.  We only see the bits that are filmed, and honestly, I know I look and sound like an idiot in home videos...cant imagin what it would be like having a camera crew around.   I know, I know....he chose this. But really, maybe he chose Jessa, and the only way he could have her was allowing the camera?  I dont know, I kinda like the goofy guy 

I'm totally with you. I think Ben is just not a very polished speaker and is not comfortable on camera. He's also shown people who were trained from birth to be perky type As and as squiffy as possible. But he clearly is interested in reading more scholarly things related to the Bible and seems to know lot of recent church history. 

[Lurky]

My issue with Ben's employment is that in a normal couple, there would tons of options - wait to finish university before marrying, Jessa moving to wherever he was living so he could continue what he was doing, wait until he gets a job before getting married/have kids etc etc - but in Duggarland, Courting leads to marriage leads to kids, super-fast, and it seems like a way for JB to control Ben (& Jessa) to employ him AND live in his house. 

If Ben and Jessa had been able to choose this path, out of so many, it would be different.  I'm actually super-impressed Ben is studying, and it seems like he's working too, because it would be much easier to go even further under JB's thumb.

[PainfullyAware]

Considering Ben is all of 22 it's hard to really fault him for taking a job offered by is father-in-law. He met a pretty girl who was also famous (especially for rural Arkansas) and...of course he was pursued that relationship. What immature teen boy wouldn't have? And if it working on a reality tv show also came with working for JB, plus he got the girl, I'm sure Ben didn't think twice. He got the whole package of being a famous Christian reality star, with a girl he fell for and the stability of working for a lucrative family business. Like someone said, it's surprising he is even contemplating a change to ministry because this all fell in his lap.

But since he does consider himseld to be a theology scholar of sorts, and maybe he's having a belated spark of independence, so ministry makes sense. It definitely seems to me that while Jessa and Ben were struggling as a couple after having Spurgeon (so many tense, awkward scenes), but they've found a groove now. They both seem more relaxed with each other, on camera at least.  Jessa seems to have mellowed out and Ben seems less stiff. As a courting couple they seemed a bit awkward but generally excited about being together in a smug kind of way. Then it appeared to go downhill after marriage. But Jessa seems happier in her own skin with the status of wide and mom and maybe Ben is happier after making decions about his future. Time will tell but at the moment they seem like the most functional Duggar offspring relationship.

[Carm_88]

7 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

It definitely seems to me that while Jessa and Ben were struggling as a couple after having Spurgeon (so many tense, awkward scenes), but they've found a groove now. They both seem more relaxed with each other, on camera at least.  Jessa seems to have mellowed out and Ben seems less stiff. 

I think part of the awkwardness post Spurgeon might have been reality sinking in. It's one thing to say "Babies, babies, babies!" In reality, they had to deal with Spurgeon's rather traumatic birth and figure out who they were as a couple. Jessa and Ben may ave had more time then the rest of them, they courted longer, but do we really think that they knew very much about each other? It was likely pretty typical ups and downs, adding in a baby for extra drama. They seem to have worked past it. 

[Seculardaisy]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

 but do we really think that they knew very much about each other? 

What really struck me in the most recent episode was Joy baking at Austin's parent's and saying "I didn't know cheesecake was one of Austin's favorite desserts" and yet she was also impatiently waiting to be proposed to. My husband and I knew nearly every quirk/like/dislike of each other before we married because we were able to grow together while dating and spend time alone. Just seemed like further evidence to me that their speedy courtship/engagement model is bull.

[OyToTheVey]

36 minutes ago, Seculardaisy said:

What really struck me in the most recent episode was Joy baking at Austin's parent's and saying "I didn't know cheesecake was one of Austin's favorite desserts" and yet she was also impatiently waiting to be proposed to. My husband and I knew nearly every quirk/like/dislike of each other before we married because we were able to grow together while dating and spend time alone. Just seemed like further evidence to me that their speedy courtship/engagement model is bull.

That struck me as weird too. I'm single but all of my friends know what my favorite foods are. It's kinda like topic number one. Don't they go out to eat? 

[metheglyn]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

That struck me as weird too. I'm single but all of my friends know what my favorite foods are. It's kinda like topic number one. Don't they go out to eat? 

Well, it's not impossible that going out to eat hasn't meant getting cheesecake anywhere, since a lot of the Duggars' going out seems to involve Chocolate Messes from Marketplace Grill or anything from Cracker Barrel. What seems stranger is that theoretically Joy's been visiting Austin's family for quite a while and hasn't had cheesecake there. But if she's done most of the socializing with her family and his all together, maybe they just haven't done his mother's cheesecake for the mob and thus she's never had the opportunity to have dessert in quite this fashion with his family?

(Admittedly, I'm playing devil's advocate here (OOH! The devil! Fie!), but I can see this playing out in this particular instance and not being all nefarious, just sad.)

[Lurker]

@metheglyn That's what I was thinking too.  The Duggars eating out seems to be Tacos for Life or that place that they get free chocolate crusted birthday sodas. If Autins mother makes this as a treat for a special family dinner, Joy may have never seen it because I think most of the courting took place at the Duggars.

[Carm_88]

Looks like Spurgeon celebrated the 4th of July with some watermelon [emoji525]

[HarryPotterFan]

A relative posted a picture of her son on Facebook who has curls to rival Spurgeon's. They're about the same age too. You got some hair competition, Spurge! Though my dad thinks the little relative looks like Shirley Temple 

[Bad Wolf]

I know they have horrible beliefs, but that kid just makes me smile. 

[Trynn]

I do while I'm in the house.  I'm always cold (yay thyroid disease!) and we have wood floors.  Plus, we are in the Pacific Northwest, so it's never really hot hot.  My feet not feeling like ice is worth being called basic.

Well right. I do get that there are people who get cold even in hot weather. Heck, at some restaurants they crank the air up so high I put on a jacket going in and I would no go in without socks. SO COLD.

I was pointing out its not a usual choice. And honestly, Most of the time I'm not looking at your feet long enough to judge. I'm too busy judging you by your coffee preferences

(That last sentence was a joke. Totally kidding.)

[Coy Koi]

12 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

A relative posted a picture of her son on Facebook who has curls to rival Spurgeon's. They're about the same age too. You got some hair competition, Spurge! Though my dad thinks the little relative looks like Shirley Temple 

My baby had some gorgeous curls. Still does, and always will (she's biracial, black and white). But the first time I cut her hair was not until she was 5. That's not weird...the weird part is that for some reason I didn't know what to do with the hair. Rather than throwing it into the trash like a normal person, I tossed the big clump of it outside. Later that day, my daughter's dad came to pick her up and he saw it. He was like, "...is that our daughter's hair I saw outside...?" That's how much of a clump it was in, he immediately recognized it as our baby's hair! I said yes and then realized how crazy that was. I don't know, that was over 10 years ago and I still have no idea how it didn't occur to me to throw the hair in the trash. Please don't judge me. I'm not generally a complete idiot.

[Daisy0322]

20 hours ago, Seculardaisy said:

What really struck me in the most recent episode was Joy baking at Austin's parent's and saying "I didn't know cheesecake was one of Austin's favorite desserts" and yet she was also impatiently waiting to be proposed to. My husband and I knew nearly every quirk/like/dislike of each other before we married because we were able to grow together while dating and spend time alone. Just seemed like further evidence to me that their speedy courtship/engagement model is bull.

Ehhh I've known my husband 7 years (been married 9 months) and we still learn new things about each other sometimes. I could tell you exsactly how he would react to things sometimes word for word but I couldn't tell you what his favorite kind of cake is for exsample and I doubt he knows mine either. And just the other day I learned that he played poker on a cruise with the singer from a pretty well known band.  Not saying courtships are a good way to get to know a person but little facts about a person don't make a relationship either.

[melon]

I have three brothers.Two older,one younger.I am almost 4 years older..his birthday was yesterday,he's 53,I'll be 57 next month.I remember when my mother was expecting him,vaguely.I know I wanted a sister and not another brother.I know one of my older brothers kept telling me that it would be another boy,and it was...I was disappointed.Boys are so plentiful in my family and Mr.Melon's,too.My younger brother and I have never been very close.I can tolerate him.