Duggars by the Dozen 26 - Double Baked Duggars

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 4/6/2017 at 4:15 PM, JMO said:

I read an article once that "shipping" as a term came about because of Mulder/Scully.  The show came out at the dawn of the internet boards and the many threads about them ended up coining the term.  Now there's also "Gilovney".  They do have crazy chemistry on screen and off so I understand it.  I do feel bad they have to keep talking about it.  

I heard it was Kirk/Spock from way back when FF was type-written and distrusted via Ye Olde Snailth Mayl

[eveandadam]

I've been thinking about their shift in how courting works. For the last few relationships, from what I observed, there is this "I am friends with his sister/our families are friends" stage, then the " pre-courting stage (which is already exclusive, like "going steady" in the 50's), the official  courting stage (includes an announcement), engagement, wedding. It developped into a pretty long process, spanning over at least 1.5 years, even longer in most cases. I think even though they cannot spend time alone (it is assumed that this also applies to text messages and phone conversation, even though I doubt this) this is a decently long time period to get to know someone.

The only difference to (friendship)-relationship-engagement-marriage (what "normal" people would do) is that they save their first kiss for the wedding and that they are not unsuppervised before their wedding day. A lot of people save themselves for marriage without being fundie and I don't know anybody personally who dates (in the American sense) meaning going on dates and more (...) without being exclusive.

So I hardly see any difference anymore between the Duggars and any liberal European person except for political views and a few relationship details. Also, their modesty standards have declined so much to the point where I wouldn't even wear what Jinger is wearing nowadays because it would be too revealing for me.

What has become off my favorite fundies, the Duggars? Where is this world heading to?

 

edited to add: Maybe the "I was first friends with his sister" stage is as important as it was during Jane Austen's time. And maybe that's why the Arndt boys have not found any wives,yet. They only have one sister. She can't be friends with all fundie girls :-)

 

 

 

[neurogirl]

Quote

5 hours ago, eveandadam said:

The only difference to (friendship)-relationship-engagement-marriage (what "normal" people would do) is that they save their first kiss for the wedding and that they are not unsuppervised before their wedding day. A lot of people save themselves for marriage without being fundie and I don't know anybody personally who dates (in the American sense) meaning going on dates and more (...) without being exclusive.

So I hardly see any difference anymore between the Duggars and any liberal European person except for political views and a few relationship details

 

That's just it though - they are never alone together before the wedding day! I'm not particularly scandalous, nor do I have political or religious differences with my parents, and I still wouldn't want them to know everything about me and my partner. The young man and woman courting play the roles set for them (pretty much one-dimensional super Christians) and can't discuss any dissenting opinions from their families on Christian doctrine, family size, homeschooling, even hobbies and music. For me, it's not about them saving the physical for their married life, but that they only know their betrothed on a superficial and/or parent-approved level until they've 'made a covenant with God' and can't back out! 

Jana (or anyone) could theoretically hate the violin, be sick of homeschooling her siblings, and hope that God only decides to bless her with two children, but even though she's an adult, she would never be able to express these opinions during the courting process. And JB and Michelle don't seem to care about their children's individual personalities/aspirations - they just want to keep their children in the cult by controlling the courting process!

[Kittikatz]

21 hours ago, Karma said:

Last season I only saw the eagles bring fish to the nest, @onekidanddone, but in the last week there's been fish, a duck and what looked like a squirrel.  If I lived near an eagle's nest I'd keep my 3kg dog inside I think!

Wise choice. We have some eagles (mostly just passing through on their migratory path) and a whole lot of hawks and falcons (migratory and resident)... I live at tree level in a building with loads of floor to ceiling and bay windows, so lots of bird watching for the cats. Some years ago one of my fur babies was basking, belly up, on a dresser that sits in a bay window, I was walking down the hallway when I noticed the light through the window suddenly going dim. I stopped and turned in time to see a large wing span and a flash of golden brown feathers through the window, then the sudden thump of impact as a hawk slammed into the glass. The cat was startled, but fine. I grabbed my phone and a blanket ran down the stairs, thinking I probably had a dead or injured raptor in the front yard, and that I'd need to secure it and call the fish and wildlife emergency number. I got downstairs, and the hawk was standing on the grass shaking it's head and wiggling the talons on one of its feet. It saw me, gave me an absolutely filthy look, and took off into the trees. The hawk spent the next couple of weeks in the neighbourhood, and I regularly saw it sitting in the tree outside my place, looking in the windows at the cats... I think it was young and trying to figure out why the juicy looking creature in the window had a force field around it.... Weirdly, there was a perfect imprint of hawk chest and wing feathers on the outside of my glass. It  must have hit with some real force. If it had been an eagle, I suspect it would have come straight through the glass rather than bouncing off. 

[singsingsing]

A hawk dive bombed me once while I was waiting for the bus. I ducked just in time. Do not mess with those things!

[Karma]

Lucky your cat was inside and not on a balcony, @Kittikatz. That's a great story, and I did lol at the cat having a force field around it.

We were holidaying in Queensland years ago.  When we first arrived in our apartment on maybe the 12th floor, the kids and I went first to look at the bedrooms, but mr karma went onto the balcony to look at the ocean view.  When we came back to the lounge room (after sorting the argument of who had which bed), he was standing there looking dazed, holding his head.  His hand came away bloody.  A sea eagle was nesting on top of the next building and didn't like people coming onto the balcony, and swooped him!  We hadn't seen the warning sign.  He said it was like being hit on the head with a frozen chook.

No relaxing on the deck chairs that holiday  

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm glad your husband survived his close encounter with a sea eagle, @Karma.   I had to look up "chook". Thank goodness for Google! 

[MayMay1123]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

A hawk dive bombed me once while I was waiting for the bus. I ducked just in time. Do not mess with those things!

Hawks have been introduced to Philly to reduce the rat, mouse and pigeon populations...they have done that so well that they are now preying on other things. One day I parked to pick granddaughter #2 up at kinder and there was a hawk way up on top of a telephone pole...with a live squirrel in its clutches. It was slowly killing the squirrel, which was screeching...moms were running, children coming out to the sight were screaming and crying and men were videoing with their phones. It was utter chaos! I grabbed the girl and drove away fast... the wildlife that is right in the middle of the city is crazy!

[Bethella]

Years ago we had an owl try to take our yellow lab puppy out of the yard. It was completely silent and came over my mom's shoulder aiming for the dog but it took off when my mom swore at it. 

[Carm_88]

My parents nearly lost their cat to a hawk. The hawk swooped down while he was stalking a mouse in the yard. Luckily, my dad caught him and let out a shout.

[Karma]

2 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I'm glad your husband survived his close encounter with a sea eagle, @Karma.   I had to look up "chook". Thank goodness for Google! 

I can't believe that chook isn't a universal word!  Chook = chicken to save anyone else googling   .  Mind you, it's probably a word that the younger generation don't use as much here as mine and my parents/grandparents.

[Bethella]

53 minutes ago, Karma said:

I can't believe that chook isn't a universal word!  Chook = chicken to save anyone else googling   .  Mind you, it's probably a word that the younger generation don't use as much here as mine and my parents/grandparents.

Where I'm from a chook is a knit hat (from the French Canadian word, toque, which means the same thing). 

[Kangaroo]

One night i was letting the dog out and I noticed a possum on the back fence. (Australian possum, much cuter than your American ones). 

Anyway out of nowhere, this powerful owl swoops down and snatches the possum. Myself, the dog and the owl engage in a staring match, and then it flew off possum in claw into the darkness. I think powerful owls are the largest variety in Australia

One of the coolest, but strangest things I've seen at 3am!

[Karma]

Lol, @Bethella i think I'd rather be hit on the head with a knit hat than a frozen chicken!

@Kangaroo that would have been amazing but scary to see.  I saw a Powerful Owl on my early morning bushwalk a couple of weeks ago and posted a photo in the Palimpest thread.  We stood and watched it in the tree for a few minutes, impressed at its size.  I could well imagine it taking a ring tail possum.  Could it take a brush tail I wonder?

[Chicken bones]

I used to work at a local university and there was one nutty professor who put outseeds everydayfor the birds. Even though we all let him know he was really feeding over foot-long rats. So one day outside my office window, a bird touched down and stood for a minute or two. It had to be an eagle... it was at least 3 feet tall, crazy large.  I live in DFW, not exactly eagle country.

[MoonFace]

There was a story on the news that a hawk lifted someone's chihuahua and carried it almost 5 miles before the dog was able to free itself. 

 

[Greendoor]

We had a pheasant come through the living room window years ago.  It must have seen all the trees in the backyard through the dining room.  Found it only by looking, under the chesterfield.  Glass everywhere.  

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 4/8/2017 at 5:54 AM, eveandadam said:

1. I've been thinking about their shift in how courting works. For the last few relationships, from what I observed, there is this "I am friends with his sister/our families are friends" stage, then the " pre-courting stage (which is already exclusive, like "going steady" in the 50's), the official  courting stage (includes an announcement), engagement, wedding. It developed into a pretty long process, spanning over at least 1.5 years, even longer in most cases. I think even though they cannot spend time alone (it is assumed that this also applies to text messages and phone conversation, even though I doubt this) this is a decently long time period to get to know someone.

2. The only difference to (friendship)-relationship-engagement-marriage (what "normal" people would do) is that they save their first kiss for the wedding and that they are not unsuppervised before their wedding day. A lot of people save themselves for marriage without being fundie and I don't know anybody personally who dates (in the American sense) meaning going on dates and more (...) without being exclusive.

2.5 So I hardly see any difference anymore between the Duggars and any liberal European person except for political views and a few relationship details. Also, their modesty standards have declined so much to the point where I wouldn't even wear what Jinger is wearing nowadays because it would be too revealing for me.

3. What has become off my favorite fundies, the Duggars? Where is this world heading to?

Sniip

I numbered & snipped for clarity & space. 

1.  They are never allowed to be alone until the Preacher man says "Man & Wife" phone calls, Facetimes/Skypes are done in front of a chaperone.  Text messages are group messages with both Boob & DQ, it is not until they are either courting or engaged that they are allowed a 1 hour unsupervised phone call a day.  I don't care if it is 3 months or 3 years it is not sufficient means for getting to know someone. 

2. No, their courting is NOTHING like what "normal" people do. Normal adults have unsupervised dates, normal people cuddle, normal people kiss. Normal people aren't told by mom & dad at 23 they can only side hug their intended for 3 seconds, or can't even hold hands until they are engaged. Normal people don't save their 1st front hugs and kiss for marriage & to be witnessed by 1500 people.  Saving intercourse for marriage isn't "weird"  at least to me I can understand that, I don't necessarily agree with it, but they aren't hurting anyone so what ever. I'm not sure where you live, but I know LOTS of people who who date and have sex with more than 1 other person at a time, including me.  I wasn't exclusive with any of them and they weren't with me. I also know a few people who were exclusive, at least as far as their SO knew and dated and screwed around. You either live under a rock, or are a fundy with little to no access to the outside world.

2.5 I'm guessing you don't know any liberals, from anywhere, if you don't think they act differently. Are you perhaps a Muslim? That is about the only other religion I can think of that would consider the Duggar's to be "non modest"

3. Are you nuts, a fundy, or just troll?  Because I'm having a hard time telling if you are yanking our chain or just that sheltered. 

[eveandadam]

 

 

5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I numbered & snipped for clarity & space. 

1.  They are never allowed to be alone until the Preacher man says "Man & Wife" phone calls, Facetimes/Skypes are done in front of a chaperone.  Text messages are group messages with both Boob & DQ, it is not until they are either courting or engaged that they are allowed a 1 hour unsupervised phone call a day.  I don't care if it is 3 months or 3 years it is not sufficient means for getting to know someone. 

2. No, their courting is NOTHING like what "normal" people do. Normal adults have unsupervised dates, normal people cuddle, normal people kiss. Normal people aren't told by mom & dad at 23 they can only side hug their intended for 3 seconds, or can't even hold hands until they are engaged. Normal people don't save their 1st front hugs and kiss for marriage & to be witnessed by 1500 people.  Saving intercourse for marriage isn't "weird"  at least to me I can understand that, I don't necessarily agree with it, but they aren't hurting anyone so what ever. I'm not sure where you live, but I know LOTS of people who who date and have sex with more than 1 other person at a time, including me.  I wasn't exclusive with any of them and they weren't with me. I also know a few people who were exclusive, at least as far as their SO knew and dated and screwed around. You either live under a rock, or are a fundy with little to no access to the outside world.

2.5 I'm guessing you don't know any liberals, from anywhere, if you don't think they act differently. Are you perhaps a Muslim? That is about the only other religion I can think of that would consider the Duggar's to be "non modest"

3. Are you nuts, a fundy, or just troll?  Because I'm having a hard time telling if you are yanking our chain or just that sheltered. 

The numbering - thank you so much.

1.-2. What can I say? I know and I already said that in my first comment.

2.5 :-) I'm a liberal, feminist, lesbian (not all the time but most of time) from Europe who is surrounded by other liberals..., so yeah, my modesty standards are really like that and those of my family and friends are not much different. And I really don't think they have extreme modesty standards clothes-wise (tight fitting things, showing shoulders and skirts that end at or above the knees...) Plus I don't know any people who date more than 1 person at a time, at least not officially because that's considered cheating.

3. Maybe I'm still considered sheltered where you are from? Why is that a bad thing? Which also makes me wonder what you consider a liberal life-style because when I look at me, well, only running around naked in public, joining an extremly leftist party or living in a commune come to mind...

[purplepeony]

8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

LOTS of people who who date and have sex with more than 1 other person at a time, including me.  I wasn't exclusive with any of them and they weren't with me. I also know a few people who were exclusive, at least as far as their SO knew and dated and screwed around. You either live under a rock, or are a fundy with little to no access to the outside world

This is interesting to me because I live in the U.K. and can't remember meeting anyone who dates more than one person at the same time. People, including myself, might hook up with different people on nights out etc but in my experience it is unusual to actually date more than one person at a time. I'm from the north of the uk so it may be more common in the bigger cities like London or Manchester I'm not sure. I have often been interested in the multiple dating seen on American tv shows etc and wondered how common it actually was. Maybe it is more of an American thing than European  as I don't think it is that common over here.

[Pukingpearl]

3 hours ago, purplepeony said:

This is interesting to me because I live in the U.K. and can't remember meeting anyone who dates more than one person at the same time. People, including myself, might hook up with different people on nights out etc but in my experience it is unusual to actually date more than one person at a time. I'm from the north of the uk so it may be more common in the bigger cities like London or Manchester I'm not sure. I have often been interested in the multiple dating seen on American tv shows etc and wondered how common it actually was. Maybe it is more of an American thing than European  as I don't think it is that common over here.

I've been out of the dating game for like ten years, but I have friends who use tinder to date and they end up seeing multiple people at the same time. I think once you find someone you're into you'd probably lock it down, though.

[imokit]

I have friends who date multiple people at the finding a boyfriend stage. As soon as they find one they like it becomes exclusive. They make a distinction between dating and bf/gf.

[front hugs > duggs]

@purplepeony yes there is definitely a difference between the UK and US in terms of dating. My husband is from England and I'm from the US. I've always thought of dating as casually, maybe you talk to a couple different people and go on a few dates with each before kind of deciding if you see a relationship in the future or not. Some people agree that they are just kind of having fun and nothing serious. My husband says this was not really how it went in the southwest of England. He said it was more typical that you would go on one to two dates with someone, and either call it off or become exclusive. 

[purplepeony]

30 minutes ago, Pukingpearl said:

I've been out of the dating game for like ten years, but I have friends who use tinder to date and they end up seeing multiple people at the same time. I think once you find someone you're into you'd probably lock it down, though.

Yeah I also have some friends who use tinder but they tend to chat to a few people at once but normally only meet up with one person at a time. I just get the impression that in America being exclusive is a next step from seeing each other regularly, but also seeing other people regularly, which I haven't seen as much in the UK. Cultural dating differences are interesting, I haven't encountered any UK fundies  personally but I'm guessing courting would be similar here to in the us.

1 minute ago, front hugs > duggs said:

@purplepeony yes there is definitely a difference between the UK and US in terms of dating. My husband is from England and I'm from the US. I've always thought of dating as casually, maybe you talk to a couple different people and go on a few dates with each before kind of deciding if you see a relationship in the future or not. Some people agree that they are just kind of having fun and nothing serious. My husband says this was not really how it went in the southwest of England. He said it was more typical that you would go on one to two dates with someone, and either call it off or become exclusive. 

Yeah that's how I experienced it too. Dating someone is the same as being boyfriend/ girlfriend - although you might go on one or two dates without saying you were dating someone which is a little confusing!

[singsingsing]

I think it really depends on the individual. For some people dating is almost a hobby or at least a huge priority, so they go out with multiple different people at the same time until they find someone with whom they want to be in a committed relationship. Other people just kind of go with the flow and only date if they happen to meet someone they're really into, so they're more likely to only be going out with one person at a time. And then other people make a conscious decision based on some preference or value or what have you to only ever go out with one person at a time. And of course you have people who will date and have sex with multiple people at the same time, people who will have sex with various people but then be monogamous once they've committed to one person, people who will date multiple people at the same time but not have sex at all until they've chosen someone to commit to - etc. It's probably cultural to some extent, but I honestly think most of it just boils down to personal preference.