Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[Snarkle Motion]

18 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think non of married couples are going to really break away from fundamentalism. But my hope is that every generation is going to break another rule and in the end they will just be very conservative. 

If you look from a black and white perspective it doesn't matter if she wears shorts. But it also doesn't matter if she would go and get more education  because it would be because he would be ok with it. As long as he has to  give permission there is no real step away.

They can be pro choice/gay/bikinis all they want as long as they live this kind of submission and/or don't believe in gender equality because Jesus, none of them is free from fundamentalism. (This goes the other way round. I think people can be anti gay/bc/... but have a totally equal relationships and are not fundamental.)

I hope that the current generation starts to do things differently than their parents. It might start with pants, alcohol, dancing, music, tv and hopefully the next generation will take the next step. I would prefer if they would start having sex just because they feel like it and not because it is the best time to get pregnant. I really hope that this happens and we will see smaller "mega-families" along the line (6-8). Less children can mean more attentive parenting and less poverty and better education which can lead to even more relaxing.

I am aware that there is a lot if and hope in there. And please notice I talk generalised about the whole group of Gothardite-Quiverfull-Fundies in my last paragraph. This doesn't mean I don't hope for the single individual that they break free but at this point I fear those will be only single actions.

Under this premise I do see Jinger, Alyssa and Whitney wearing pants, Chad doing "women's work", Ben (and Jessa) listening to rap and talking about rascism, Zach and Whitny supposedly watching R-rated movies as the first signs that the new generation in the Duggar-Bates-Universe are doing things differently. And I hope this happens in the other families in their circle too. It is just easier to see with the Duggar's/Bate's because they have been so vocal about all their convictions (that are magically the same for all) and portray them for a wide audience.

Trace being allowed to take dance lessons. I'm seeing a lot of loosening up. I can only hope that this starts to open their minds to new perspectives as well. 

[nst]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I seriously doubt Jeremy cares if Jinger is showing her kneecaps, shoulders or clavicles.

only because he has seen every inch already

 

[Jug Band Baby]

Jinger and Jeremy moved fast, but I have hope that their relative quiet since getting married means they're really getting to know each other without cameras, and are really finding themselves to be compatible.  Couples should do that first, but if they didn't, then better to be compatible later than not at all.  Him being more worldly probably makes him a bit looser, even though he still does spew awful things in the name of religion.

[grandmadugger]

11 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I'm curious to see what happens with the next generation. Will they be allowed to go to school (Christian if course), join sports teams or scouts? That will show some cracks in the fundie upbringing. Well, not Derick, of course, he's not going to let Izzy join ebil boy scouts.

 

I have hope that Uncle Dan will take Izzy to Boy Scouts since Dan works for them.

[metheglyn]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

I have hope that Uncle Dan will take Izzy to Boy Scouts since Dan works for them.

Thank you, yes. I was just thinking about this. Continuing the aside, Dan definitely works for them and appears to be quite proud about it. The Instagram pic below is over a year old, but he's still listed on the West Arkansas District Committee page as the District Executive for the Ozark District.  http://www.westarkbsa.org/Ozark/Committee/Roster  If Derick thinks they're evil, then there's a fair difference of opinion going on there. 

 

[Bad Wolf]

Derick is upset because they're allowing transgender kids to join scouts.

[Lurky]

16 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

In my 4 years of high school I never saw a pregnant girl either (I graduated 6 years ago) .... because they sent them to a special school attached to the county rec center for "troubled teens".

I went to a fancy school, and no one was ever pregnant etc in school - BUT I do wonder, in retrospect, about how some girls just disappeared for a few months, and then came back.  "Glandular fever" was one of the reasons for that, and I am not at all suggesting it doesn't exist - but it does make a good cover, if you're pulling your daughter out of school to make her have a baby in secret and then give it up for adoption...  (my partner is one of those babies)

[nokidsmom]

Catching up after a bit of time away from FJ.  Wow, wearing shorts already?!  That sure didn't take long. 

TBH, it's going to be a lot more comfortable to be wearing shorts given the climate where Jinger and Jeremy live.   However NWA can get pretty hot and humid so Jinger is used to wearing skirts in in hot weather.  Interesting that she made that change so quickly. 

I am not going to get into how this is an "indicator" that she might not be as fundie, she can wear shorts and be as fundie as she ever was.  But it's interesting how some of these fundie maidens make some changes immediately after getting out of their family homes.  Alyssa Bates is another example.  That tells me that they are exercising a bit of freedom.   May not be much in the grand scheme of things but given the controlling homes they come from, it's got to be a bit exhilarating to finally wear something that perhaps they wanted to wear for a long time.  Or try something new. 

[Foudeb]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I went to a fancy school, and no one was ever pregnant etc in school -

Yes, no teen pregnancies at my high school either, like ever. But thinking about it there were quite a few cases of mononucleosis (disease that makes you so tired you can't show up at school for months). It could also have been a good cover story, especially if someone in the school genuinely had mononucleosis before. I'm now scratching my head wondering if I've been a bit too naive all these years!

Though I suspect most pregnancies must have ended with an abortion.

[singsingsing]

I've found that skirts can be nearly as cool in hot weather (sometimes cooler depending on the circumstances) but it's much harder to make a knee length skirt modest than a pair of knee length shorts. Skirts ride up when you sit down. You have to be conscious of what your legs are doing lest you flash someone. They blow in the wind and expose more leg than you might want, or whip around and cling to your body, showing more of your outline than a pair of relatively loose fitting shorts. You could accidentally expose yourself getting in and out of cars, climbing stairs etc. 

[formergothardite]

On 3/12/2017 at 3:09 AM, just_ordinary said:

I think people can be anti gay/bc/... but have a totally equal relationships and are not fundamental.)

Wouldn't having a belief system that oppressing an entire group of people make you a fundamentalist? I don't see how anti-gay people aren't fundies. Anyone whose beliefs make them claim and entire group of people don't exist and shouldn't exist is pretty fundie, no matter how equal their marriage is. 

 

[HereticHick]

21 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I was taught sex education as part of Heath/PE in jr high and high school. We have no teen pregnancies in my area in northern New Jersery. 

Oh please. Back that up with some statistics (for example, there are some charts by county  here: https://www26.state.nj.us/doh-shad/indicator/complete_profile/AgeSpecBirthRate.html). I don't care how privileged your personal bubble might seem, some teens around you are having sex with out adequate birth control measures.

 Just because YOU don't personally know any teen who gave birth doesn't mean no one got pregnant.

[nokidsmom]

There were pregnancies at my high school for sure.    I knew one girl personally who got pregnant but she was also married by her junior year, pre-pregnancy btw.    I heard of others but they were mostly terminated or the girl "dropped out".    Being the drop out rate at my school was fairly high at that time, it was a good cover.

[karen77]

We had quite a few in my HS class, at least 1/3 of the girls in my class had kids by then or were about to. Put me off having sex until I graduated!

[front hugs > duggs]

14 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Oh please. Back that up with some statistics (for example, there are some charts by county  here: https://www26.state.nj.us/doh-shad/indicator/complete_profile/AgeSpecBirthRate.html). I don't care how privileged your personal bubble might seem, some teens around you are having sex with out adequate birth control measures.

 Just because YOU don't personally know any teen who gave birth doesn't mean no one got pregnant.

I completely agree with you here. I am also from northern NJ and while there were no teenage mothers in my high school, I very much believe there were pregnancies and abortions. I found this interesting from the link you posted though:

Quote

Objective MCH-10: Reduce the birth rate per 1,000 females aged 15-17 to 11.4 for the total population, 2.5 among Whites, 25.6 among Blacks, and 31.4 among Hispanics

Kind of makes sense for some of the areas around here, where there are very privileged, wealthy towns. My school was (not exaggerating) 86% white, then 7% Hispanic, and 5% Asian. Only 0.8% of my school was eligible for free or reduced lunch. While I do believe many kids had access and were on birth control, I would never say there were no teenage pregnancies just because we didn't see them. Also, if people got sent away mysteriously for a few months, it was more likely due to rehab for cocaine than actual pregnancy.

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Wouldn't having a belief system that oppressing an entire group of people make you a fundamentalist? I don't see how anti-gay people aren't fundies. Anyone whose beliefs make them claim and entire group of people don't exist and shouldn't exist is pretty fundie, no matter how equal their marriage is.

Yes, applause!  I get into fights here with people who get angry I call my partner's ex-church Fundy, because it was Vineyard, and they don't see their Vineyard as Fundy, despite the fact my partner's is in a different country, and they did "pray away the gay" therapy on her. 

Of course, not all Fundies are Gothardites/Vision Forum - BUT there is a lot of Christian Fundamentalism out there.  And just because a church isn't Quiverfull/anti-education-Homeschooling (which is pretty culturally specific to the USA), doesn't mean it can't be Fundy either. 

[nokidsmom]

16 minutes ago, karen77 said:

We had quite a few in my HS class, at least 1/3 of the girls in my class had kids by then or were about to. Put me off having sex until I graduated!

Just knowing my friend was having a baby in the summer between junior and senior year helped put me off on having sex until later.  I couldn't imagine having a baby at that point in my life not to mention the impact on my education.  My friend was happy about it though but she didn't return the following year.

[just_ordinary]

@formergothardite You are right.  When I think and speak of fundies there is always a religious element to it. The origin of the phrase may lay in Reuben Archer Torrey's "The Fundamentals [...]" (a mostly theological publication series) but from a sociological perspective it describes the manifestation of a radical ideology.

I just don't use the sociological definition (as the religious bound definition is an admitted definition also where I live- and most used I think). 

There are a lot of different definitions out there, and especially with all our different language backgrounds there are even more. Makes it as interesting as irritating sometimes.

[SweetJuly]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Wouldn't having a belief system that oppressing an entire group of people make you a fundamentalist? I don't see how anti-gay people aren't fundies. Anyone whose beliefs make them claim and entire group of people don't exist and shouldn't exist is pretty fundie, no matter how equal their marriage is. 

 

Well, you can be anti-gay without a religious (aka fundamentalist) belief structure: You can be a bigot, you can be close-minded, or simply feel disgusted/put-off by homosexuality in general or your own homoerotic desires in particular, etc.

I have actually heard someone argue once that gay people adopting would somehow destroy our societal structure - please don't ask what the exact reasoning behind it was, but it was nothing religious, more something pseudo-biological/philosophical.

Sadly you don't need to have a religious basis or use religious argumentation to be a homophobe.

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I've found that skirts can be nearly as cool in hot weather (sometimes cooler depending on the circumstances) but it's much harder to make a knee length skirt modest than a pair of knee length shorts. Skirts ride up when you sit down. You have to be conscious of what your legs are doing lest you flash someone. They blow in the wind and expose more leg than you might want, or whip around and cling to your body, showing more of your outline than a pair of relatively loose fitting shorts. You could accidentally expose yourself getting in and out of cars, climbing stairs etc. 

But, but, but -- they outline your butt!

AND they produce the dreaded "V" of desire !!

Does anyone else remember the visual aid of how pants-wearing results in a V right at the --- cough ahem gasp blush --- cr-tchal region, oh noes!?!?!?

It really needs to be my avatar.  If only I could find it. The illustration, that is. 

[formergothardite]

26 minutes ago, SweetJuly said:

Well, you can be anti-gay without a religious (aka fundamentalist) belief structure: You can be a bigot, you can be close-minded, or simply feel disgusted/put-off by homosexuality in general or your own homoerotic desires in particular, etc.

Fundamentalism isn't just for religious folks. We have discussed atheist fundies here. If someone is willing to have a belief that makes them want to oppress a group of people, or in the case of most anti-gay people, want them to not exist at all,  then they are a fundamentalist. 

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Wouldn't having a belief system that oppressing an entire group of people make you a fundamentalist? I don't see how anti-gay people aren't fundies.

My next door neighbors on the north side for instance are not fundy anything.  They aren't atheists and aren't religious either.  They are, however, bigoted jerks to a high degree.  I don't think the line is "liberal" or "fundy."  I think there is a lot of gray muddy water in between.  At least that is how I see the world. 

[nokidsmom]

10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

My next door neighbors on the north side for instance are not fundy anything.  They aren't atheists and aren't religious either.  They are, however, bigoted jerks to a high degree.  I don't think the line is "liberal" or "fundy."  I think there is a lot of gray muddy water in between.  At least that is how I see the world.

Amen to this.  Most bigots I know are neither fundy or liberal or atheist or any other extreme.   I suppose because being not fundie myself I don't actually know many bigoted fundies at this point in my life but knowing many people in the middle so to speak, I can guarantee there's a lot of bigotry there.

[mpheels]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:58 AM, eyerollsforjesus said:

Jeremy "turned pro" before completing the Masters program so he only has a Bachelors degree. Not knocking his education, it's just a fact. 

I'm catching up, so this may already be out there (or may have been said ages ago - I am a sporadic reader). Graduate school is a way to squeeze in an additional year of eligibility for college athletes in the NCAA, especially for those who transferred schools like Jeremy. His offer for a professional sport coincided with the end of his NCAA eligibility. I strongly suspect he only started the masters program to get another year of college play and better/more exposure for pro scouts. 

[December]

Look what I stumbled on: https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/03/jinger-duggar-wears-shorts-internet-loses-its-mind/  (quotes this thread)