Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

My next door neighbors on the north side for instance are not fundy anything.  They aren't atheists and aren't religious either.  They are, however, bigoted jerks to a high degree.  I don't think the line is "liberal" or "fundy."  I think there is a lot of gray muddy water in between.  At least that is how I see the world. 

Yeah, there are a lot of garden variety bigots out there. I know people who are prejudiced against gay people, for instance, don't want to be around them or see same sex affectionate acts, but it's not because of any religious beliefs. And they don't necessarily have an agenda; they aren't pulling a Steve Anderson and staging protests and preaching about stoning. Hell, I know people like this who don't even vote. They're just small-minded, scared, and only want to be with homogeneous groups like themselves.

I'm not saying they're not a problem for the people they are bigoted against, I just don't think of them as Fundy.

 

[SweetJuly]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Fundamentalism isn't just for religious folks. We have discussed atheist fundies here. If someone is willing to have a belief that makes them want to oppress a group of people, or in the case of most anti-gay people, want them to not exist at all,  then they are a fundamentalist. 

Well, the word fundamentalism denotes merely a very strict and literal adherence to a scripture or dogma. It does not per se include looking down on someone or oppressing a group of people.

Hence it is, at least in theory, entirely possible to be fundy and not a hateful bigot. Just as you can be a hateful bigot without being fundy.

[Palimpsest]

22 minutes ago, December said:

Look what I stumbled on: https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/03/jinger-duggar-wears-shorts-internet-loses-its-mind/  (quotes this thread)

Yup.  

Quote

Naturally, the Duggar fan community went nuts over the shorts pic, with one fan writing “Wow, amazing!! Maybe Jinger finally is 'free'!"

That quote comes to us from a member of Free Jinger, a forum actually named after Jinger Duggar and fans' desire for her to be ... free.

I wish the Hollywood Gossip understood that Free Jinger is not a Duggar fan site but it is easy to see how it mistakes us for one.

Oh, well.  

[Grimalkin]

7 hours ago, Lurky said:

I went to a fancy school, and no one was ever pregnant etc in school - BUT I do wonder, in retrospect, about how some girls just disappeared for a few months, and then came back.  "Glandular fever" was one of the reasons for that, and I am not at all suggesting it doesn't exist - but it does make a good cover, if you're pulling your daughter out of school to make her have a baby in secret and then give it up for adoption...  (my partner is one of those babies)

      My daughter missed six weeks of her senior year getting treatment for depression and anxiety. There were three other kids from her HS there for the same reason. The place was packed to the gills treating youth for depression, anxiety, school aversion, and eating disorders to name a few. It was a day program. She did not want anybody to know. Something to keep in mind before you make assumptions.

[Palimpsest]

36 minutes ago, SweetJuly said:

Well, the word fundamentalism denotes merely a very strict and literal adherence to a scripture or dogma. It does not per se include looking down on someone or oppressing a group of people.

Hence it is, at least in theory, entirely possible to be fundy and not a hateful bigot. Just as you can be a hateful bigot without being fundy.

Language develops with time and the definition of Fundamentalism is getting broader.  We talk mostly about American Christian Fundamentalism here but often branch out to other religions (including militant atheism).

As I use the term it tends not to be exclusively religious.  It means:

• Devotion to a dogma or doctrine (that can be political as well as religious),
• Literalism (every word of my specific source material is true),
• Conviction that this literal truth is the only right way to think,
• Bigotry - strong emphasis on in-groups and out-groups (you are for me or against me),
• An overwhelming desire to impose this thinking on others who think otherwise,
• If you don't agree with me you are a lesser being,
• Lesser beings are bad,
• If lesser beings can't or won't be changed they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

And I do use it as a pejorative.  So sue me.

[SassyPants]

Dropping the G when pronouncing gerunds. Joy does this a great deal:

Examples: Courtin, Singin... and the use of "whenever".

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

Dropping the G when pronouncing gerunds. Joy does this a great deal:

Examples: Courtin, Singin... and the use of "whenever".

Everyone does this where I'm from in the Midwest. And double Ts in the middle of a word sound like a d. Like Budder or Ledder. 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Everyone does this where I'm from in the Midwest. And double Ts in the middle of a word sound like a d. Like Budder or Ledder. 

^ That sometimes results in funny spelling mistakes.  Long ago I remember a woman on the Gardenweb home decorating forum who said "my shudders were painted the wrong shade of green and the result makes me shutter." I think she was from the Midwest.  

Whenever used instead of when is supposed to be regional too.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

^ That sometimes results in funny spelling mistakes.  Long ago I remember a woman on the Gardenweb home decorating forum who said "my shudders were painted the wrong shade of green and the result makes me shutter." I think she was from the Midwest.  

Whenever used instead of when is supposed to be regional too.

We have a lot of weird ones. It can get confusing and/or embarrassing. 

Now expect major thread drift of regional speech patterns of the US. It's coming! 

[singsingsing]

The tt -> dd shift is a thing where I live too. So 'written' rhymes with 'ridden'. But 'writer' does not rhyme with 'rider'...

[Coconut Flan]

39 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Language develops with time and the definition of Fundamentalism is getting broader.  We talk mostly about American Christian Fundamentalism here but often branch out to other religions (including militant atheism).

As I use the term it tends not to be exclusively religious.  It means:

• Devotion to a dogma or doctrine (that can be political as well as religious),
• Literalism (every word of my specific source material is true),
• Conviction that this literal truth is the only right way to think,
• Bigotry - strong emphasis on in-groups and out-groups (you are for me or against me),
• An overwhelming desire to impose this thinking on others who think otherwise,
• If you don't agree with me you are a lesser being,
• Lesser beings are bad,
• If lesser beings can't or won't be changed they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

I think I can go along with this approach.  It seems to have a lot of the points of most fundamentalists I know.  So far all the fundamentalists I've met, read, or read about have been bigoted about one thing or another, but there may be a few out there who aren't.  However, all the bigots in the world aren't fundamentalists.  You need more of the package.  The art may lie in how much of the package you need or how complete on each element the person has to be for one person to see them as fundamentalist vs another. 

[2manyKidzzz]

46 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Language develops with time and the definition of Fundamentalism is getting broader.  We talk mostly about American Christian Fundamentalism here but often branch out to other religions (including militant atheism).

As I use the term it tends not to be exclusively religious.  It means:

• Devotion to a dogma or doctrine (that can be political as well as religious),
• Literalism (every word of my specific source material is true),
• Conviction that this literal truth is the only right way to think,
• Bigotry - strong emphasis on in-groups and out-groups (you are for me or against me),
• An overwhelming desire to impose this thinking on others who think otherwise,
• If you don't agree with me you are a lesser being,
• Lesser beings are bad,
• If lesser beings can't or won't be changed they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

And I do use it as a pejorative.  So sue me.

This is my family. Fun, doncha think?

[Grimalkin]

 @Lurky I just reread my post and don't mean to sound like I'm scolding you or being handslappy.

[nst]

4 hours ago, karen77 said:

We had quite a few in my HS class, at least 1/3 of the girls in my class had kids by then or were about to. Put me off having sex until I graduated!

in my high school one girl and her older boyfriend used saran wrap - needless to say she did get pregnant later on - not with the same guy though 

[Palimpsest]

16 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

However, all the bigots in the world aren't fundamentalists.  You need more of the package. 

All fundamentalists are bigots but not all bigots are fundamentalists?

On the broadening of the definition of fundamentalist in sociological usage  - I just searched and can't find the article I wanted.  Wikipedia goes into some depth though - it is controversial.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism#Criticism

[VelociRapture]

On 3/12/2017 at 5:15 AM, JillyO said:

Every time you guys talk about your so-called sex-ed (which is really more aptly named do-not-have-sex non-ed), I thank my lucky stars that I went to school in Germany. And I despair for my potential future children who will most likely have the misfortune of attending school in the US. I'll obviously do my best to give them proper information at home, but some of the damage can't easily be undone.

Keep in mind that it depends on the district you live in. I'm in New England (Connecticut) and got relatively good Sex Education in my school district. We had the video on mensturation during fifth grade - the female teachers and our moms watched with us and answered any questions we had as honestly as they could. And starting in sixth grade we had Health class. We learned about reproductive health, some contraception methods, STIs, drugs, etc. 

This link includes a map that shows what each state requires:

https://www.google.com/amp/fusion.net/story/188424/sex-ed-and-condom-instruction-in-america/amp/

And here's a link that discusses recent legislation concerning Sex Ed:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-policies-on-sex-education-in-schools.aspx

To be honest, these things are very important and should absolutely be covered properly in all schools. But I do feel that it's also part of the parents' job to explain things and emphasize the importance of protection, consent, etc. as well. Parents can be the biggest influences in their childrens' lives. If you take the time to really explain things to them - no matter how awkward it may be - then I think your kids will be fine regardless of where you raise them.

[Lurky]

10 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 @Lurky I just reread my post and don't mean to sound like I'm scolding you or being handslappy.

No worries - it's a sensitive subject, and I got what you meant.  FWIW I absolutely wouldn't judge anyone, or blame them for using glandular fever/mono or something else as an excuse for any time off for other conditions.  Hell, I wouldn't blame/judge them for using a different, less loaded, reason for being off school because of pregnancy either. 

I probably worded it wrong, because when people I know talk about "no one from my school ever got pregnant", that doesn't mean it didn't happen, especially as others said upthread, there's also abortion to be factored in.  Fee-paying schools like mine would go out of their ways to hide anything they deemed controversial, for all the wrong reasons, in ways that my partner's state school, in a less well-off part of the UK, wouldn't.

[Coconut Flan]

10 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

All fundamentalists are bigots but not all bigots are fundamentalists?

Yes, I was thinking of typing exactly that while washing dishes, but when I got to the keyboard, it came out phrased differently.  I admit I'm seldom comfortable at first when the meanings of words begins to shift.  Although I have to admit the way I'm used to seeing it expressed outside the forum is "religious fundamentalist" which by its nature implies that there are other kinds.  I still believe it takes more than bigotry alone to make one a fundamentalist. 

 

[RosyDaisy]

Derick is upset because they're allowing transgender kids to join scouts.

Fuck you, Derick!

Dropping the G when pronouncing gerunds. Joy does this a great deal:

Examples: Courtin, Singin... and the use of "whenever".

I find this more commom in the South. I'm guilty of this too.

I went to a fancy school, and no one was ever pregnant etc in school - BUT I do wonder, in retrospect, about how some girls just disappeared for a few months, and then came back.  "Glandular fever" was one of the reasons for that.

Glandular fever, aka Mono is definitely a legitmate illness. I missed 2 months of my junior year of high school. There seemed to be a mini outbreak at my public high school affecting females and males.

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I admit I'm seldom comfortable at first when the meanings of words begins to shift.

Neither am I usually.  I've been hanging out with too many degreed sociologists for too long I'm afraid.

[MargaretElliott]

Damn. Of all the posts they decide to quote from FJ, they choose the one (I think it was kind of joking? Can't remember) optimistic one, instead of the hundreds discussing the harms of fundamentalism. It's a gossip magazine, though, so I shouldn't be surprised. Can't think too hard. (No shame on those who like reading celebrity gossip, it's great entertainment, just not real thought-provoking, you know?)

Also, reading you guy's horror stories about sex ed makes me all the more thankful for my crazy gym teacher, who taught us how to clean sex toys when we were in 9th grade, explained masturbation, and told us about every kind of birth control under the sun. We actually did one of those demonstrations where people put glitter on their hands, then shook hands. It was less "don't have sex" and more "wear a damn condom" because some kids got rubber gloves. That's a much healthier message. Protect your wiener.

Spoiler

 

[Dubiousclaire]

Shorts tangent!  Do you think the married Duggar females still wear the long sleeve,  floor length,  little house in the prairie nightgowns? 

[Lurky]

57 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Glandular fever, aka Mono is definitely a legitmate illness. I missed 2 months of my junior year of high school. There seemed to be a mini outbreak at my public high school affecting females and males.

Sure, as I said, I know long absences for GF  happen - BUT at a fancy school, saying a kid is away for months for GF is more palatable than saying she's been shipped off to give birth and hand over the kid for adoption (and as I said, this is what happened to my partner's birth mother, so I know it happened at least once, in real life, though without the specifics of what they excused her absence with)

ETA re sex education. - John Oliver of Sex ed. in the USA

 

[jerkit]

7 minutes ago, Dubiousclaire said:

Shorts tangent!  Do you think the married Duggar females still wear the long sleeve,  floor length,  little house in the prairie nightgowns? 

Jill did in the very first ep of Counting On.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Language develops with time and the definition of Fundamentalism is getting broader.  We talk mostly about American Christian Fundamentalism here but often branch out to other religions (including militant atheism).

As I use the term it tends not to be exclusively religious.  It means:

• Devotion to a dogma or doctrine (that can be political as well as religious),
• Literalism (every word of my specific source material is true),
• Conviction that this literal truth is the only right way to think,
• Bigotry - strong emphasis on in-groups and out-groups (you are for me or against me),
• An overwhelming desire to impose this thinking on others who think otherwise,
• If you don't agree with me you are a lesser being,
• Lesser beings are bad,
• If lesser beings can't or won't be changed they should be wiped off the face of the earth.

And I do use it as a pejorative.  So sue me.

I'm curious how many of those points need to be met for you to consider someone a fundie. All? Just one? Is one or a few a fundie-lite?